3618 réponses à ce sujet

[Rekkampum]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Rekkampum wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

To run Cerberus yourself depends on you. If you're a xenophode who's hungry for power or human dominance, then that's kind of bad. But someone like Miranda or Jacob (or both) could change things for the better. If you can make the best of things, why not? Keeping Cerberus not running by TIM can be beneficial to anyone. Morally depends on you or the person taking over. Though I'd probably prefer to restructure it, since as Miranda says, many join out of simple xenophodia.

Excellent. Do you feel you could ever see this new Cerberus faction working with the Council, or would you still need to be an autonomous so you can bypass the bureacratic red tape?

Ah, and the inevitable slide begins.

One can reasonably conclude to remain seperate, because you could be more "effective".  After all, what kind of people would front such large sums of money to the alliance part 2?

But I always saw regulations as being there to keep certain people from getting "carried away (*cough, TIM, cough cough*)

So if one does decide to fore-go all such red tape, what is there to stop you from concluding that experiments like the one on Akuze are not only deemed acceptable, but necessary?

It's all downhill from there.

Possible sure, but if you establish your own code of parameters to keep your subordinates' actions in check, you can very well avoid that downfall.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

HomelessGal wrote...

If we took over Cerberus, then at least we could discontinue use of the logo on everything.

Extra income from shampoo,aftershave,sunglasses and hats would possibly fall.

[TMA LIVE]

Rekkampum wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

To run Cerberus yourself depends on you. If you're a xenophode who's hungry for power or human dominance, then that's kind of bad. But someone like Miranda or Jacob (or both) could change things for the better. If you can make the best of things, why not? Keeping Cerberus not running by TIM can be beneficial to anyone. Morally depends on you or the person taking over. Though I'd probably prefer to restructure it, since as Miranda says, many join out of simple xenophodia.

Excellent. Do you feel you could ever see this new Cerberus faction working with the Council, or would you still need to be an autonomous so you can bypass the bureacratic red tape?

Honestly, it's probably better if they don't. Just like every country, or in this case, species, everyone needs their own secret service that only answers to the government of their race. Everyone spies on each other, and tries to gain the upper hand. Allies can at any time can become enemies, and enemies can become allies. Cerberus would simply have to be more official, then just a rogue organisation acting on their own though.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 07 août 2011 - 12:50 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

HomelessGal wrote...

If we took over Cerberus, then at least we could discontinue use of the logo on everything.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves, that logo is one of the primary reasons I'd want to take Cerberus over.

[Rekkampum]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

HomelessGal wrote...

If we took over Cerberus, then at least we could discontinue use of the logo on everything.

Extra income from shampoo,aftershave,sunglasses and hats would possibly fall.

Not to forget "official" Cerberus uniforms. *cues Miranda's costume pic at Bioware's favorite angle of choice*

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Rekkampum wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

HomelessGal wrote...

If we took over Cerberus, then at least we could discontinue use of the logo on everything.

Extra income from shampoo,aftershave,sunglasses and hats would possibly fall.

Not to forget "official" Cerberus uniforms. *cues Miranda's costume pic at Bioware's favorite angle of choice*

Ah,I forgot the calanders and pin ups.

[cyclospdias]

i destroyed the base,and i did that for several reasons.
-First of all,this base not only contained Reaper tech,something that TIM could find elsewhere,but it also contained tech responsible for Reaper birth and its DEFINITELY what i dont want TIM to have
-Additionally,the base is a Reaper creation.I dont know what connections TIm might have with them but giving him free tech isnt my ideal way of finding out
-And finally,this greedy TIM reacted very....strangely when i decided to blow the base up,making me more supsicious and reluctunt to give him the base.Shepard took enough orders from TIM without TIM telling him/her whats goign on, so it only fiar that Sheaprd doesnt help.i dont want TIm to have Reaper tech when he is out for my ass.

[Ricinator]

what if you kept the collecter base and no that cerberus is the enemy again the work out the reaper tech that lets them controll sheperds mechanical half like saren.

[Rekkampum]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Rekkampum wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

HomelessGal wrote...

If we took over Cerberus, then at least we could discontinue use of the logo on everything.

Extra income from shampoo,aftershave,sunglasses and hats would possibly fall.

Not to forget "official" Cerberus uniforms. *cues Miranda's costume pic at Bioware's favorite angle of choice*

Ah,I forgot the calanders and pin ups.

*cues pic of  shirtless Jacob for all the ladies* See? Bioware is all about equal opportunity.

[alperez]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...



Yes, he could have assumed that. In fact, he did assuem they have a base of operations. Yet he knew nothing about that theoretical base.

Hence, why there was no plan to capture it. Because you cannot make such plans without data.

So knowing a base of operations exists but not knowing the specifics of that base of operations means that he could not have a plan in mind to take over that base, seriously that's the argument your now using.

He couldn't have made a plan because he didn't have the full data at his disposal when coming up with a plan, re-read what your saying and try to logically analyse it.

Or do you really believe that every military operation ever initiated would only proceed with complete and total information about the target?

Modifié par alperez, 07 août 2011 - 01:18 .

[Sisterofshane]

Saphra Deden wrote...

HomelessGal wrote...

If we took over Cerberus, then at least we could discontinue use of the logo on everything.

Cerberus needs to be decentralized. The Illusive Man's importance is a liability.

That's akin to saying the U.S. should get rid of the  position of the President, because his importance is such a liability to the effective governance of our country.

In theory, it sounds good, but if you get rid of the Illusive man, then there is no Cerberus.

Better for the Illusive man to be replaced (even if by someone not as competent as him), then for him to risk the entire failure of his operation.

[SandTrout]

@alperez,

actually, the point is that TIM could not have made plans regarding capturing the CB without knowing more than he did about the base. TIM could not have even known weather or not it would even be possible to capture the base. Any plans that he could have made toward capturing the base would need to be made along the way, not before passing through the O4 relay.

I still think that TIM could have let me know about this possibility earlier, like while we were rescuing our crew or preparing to 'hold the line'.

[TMA LIVE]

HomelessGal wrote...

If we took over Cerberus, then at least we could discontinue use of the logo on everything.

You know, I always had a problem with Cerberus and their logo. Though I understand needing a symbol for your organization so it has a face for you employees, instead of being faceless, I always considered them running around with ships and suits branding the logo to be very stupid in local places. Like the Citedal, run by the Council who consider them terrorists. Or Omega, which is filled with anti-human criminals, who'll torture a guy just for saying "He's with Cerberus". Yet, we dropped the Cerberus branded Normandy in their ports all the time, and have Miranda and Jacob follow behind in their skin tight Cerberus suits. Guess TIM must be doing a lot of bribes, or Shepard's lucky for being popular to Aria and Bailey, and not get his ship raided. Or C-Sec coming to arrest Jacob and Miranda for before letting them visit Councilor Anderson.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 07 août 2011 - 01:46 .

[TMA LIVE]

alperez wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...



Yes, he could have assumed that. In fact, he did assuem they have a base of operations. Yet he knew nothing about that theoretical base.

Hence, why there was no plan to capture it. Because you cannot make such plans without data.

So knowing a base of operations exists but not knowing the specifics of that base of operations means that he could not have a plan in mind to take over that base, seriously that's the argument your now using.

He couldn't have made a plan because he didn't have the full data at his disposal when coming up with a plan, re-read what your saying and try to logically analyse it.

Or do you really believe that every military operation ever initiated would only proceed with complete and total information about the target?

Also, saying he knew nothing of the base is suggesting you don't consider the possiblity that TIM is lying to you.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 07 août 2011 - 01:30 .

[alperez]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Of course. As a human superematists group, there's bound to be xenophobes..But then again, there are xenophobes everywhere.
And how muh is "too many"... by Miranda standards? She also implies there are many who join for the right reasons.
And the Cerberus personell aboard your ships - they are all alien friendly. Would they work for Cerberus if it's goals were anihilation of all aliens? No.

So all this proves is that there are xenophobs among cerberus personell.
And that exterminatiosn of aliens is not Cerberuses goal.

The fact that Miranda who's supposedly high enough up in Cerberus's hierarchy to be given responsibility for the lazurus project suggests that there are too many who join for that reason suggests that she herself may feel marginlised by those xenophobes, which is why she is happy that Shepard is joining in her opinion for the right reasons.

As for the people on your ship, it make absolutely no sense that someone as intelligent as TIm supposedly is would put anyone other than personell who show Cerberus in the best possible light to someone he knows may not share Cerberus's beliefs.

Example a racist organisation will usually trot out people who put their case forward in the best possible light (david dukes) rather than trot out the most zealous of their followers in order to try to convince people they are not exactly what they seem..

Its not so much that there are xenophobes in Cerberus that really is the issue, its that these people's views or actions are accepted by Cerberus as being ok simply because they may also share a goal that cerberus has.

[Sisterofshane]

SandTrout wrote...

@alperez,

actually, the point is that TIM could not have made plans regarding capturing the CB without knowing more than he did about the base. TIM could not have even known weather or not it would even be possible to capture the base. Any plans that he could have made toward capturing the base would need to be made along the way, not before passing through the O4 relay.

I still think that TIM could have let me know about this possibility earlier, like while we were rescuing our crew or preparing to 'hold the line'.

Of course he could have.  He had to have known that in going to the Collector Base, we would be fighting the Collectors, who were vulnerable to the device he suggested that would remove all life forms without damaging the ship (sorry forgot exactly what the device entailed - I couldn't find it on the wiki).  He could have known this to be a possibility even without knowing anything of the collector base, except for the fact that it exists.  As soon as he knew the base existed and that we had a plan to blow it up, he could have suggested this alternative (remember the plan was hatched aboard the Normandy before we infiltrated the CB).

TIM is a very smart man.  He is a man who knows how to manipulate the situation in order to get what he wants.

[alperez]

SandTrout wrote...

@alperez,

actually, the point is that TIM could not have made plans regarding capturing the CB without knowing more than he did about the base. TIM could not have even known weather or not it would even be possible to capture the base. Any plans that he could have made toward capturing the base would need to be made along the way, not before passing through the O4 relay.

I still think that TIM could have let me know about this possibility earlier, like while we were rescuing our crew or preparing to 'hold the line'.

Actually your wrong and missing my point a little i think, he could not have made a specific plan yes, but a general one which would have included a variety of options would surely have been something he did plan for, otherwise he's not the brilliant tactician people make him out to be.

A military operation would have to include contingencies, one of these contingencies wouldl ikely be capture and hold as well as destroy.

[Sisterofshane]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

That's akin to saying the U.S. should get rid of the  position of the President, because his importance is such a liability to the effective governance of our country.

The President is not that important. That's why there is a line of succession. He could die tomorrow and we'd have a new President within the hour.

So who's to say the TIM doesn't have some sort of contingency plan in case of his untimely death?  Most important positions do.
TIM would certainly know that without some sort of "figure head" (albeit he is much more than that), his organization will  likely cease to exist. To want Cerberus decentralized is to want NO cerberus, IMO.

[SandTrout]

There are advantages and disadvantages to how TIM has chosen to organize Cerberus.

Pros: Cells are capable of remaining isolated from wide-scale infiltration while retaining cohesiveness in their objectives and avoiding stepping on each others' toes.

Cons: It is dependent on a singular individual to guide its efforts, possibly resulting in tunnel-vision of goals or decapitation.

The possibility of decapitation of Cerberus has been limited by TIM's extensive efforts to isolate himself and secure his channels of communication.

[Someone With Mass]

I'm sure Cerberus' founders would find someone else to keep their interests in check.

[Sisterofshane]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I'm sure Cerberus' founders would find someone else to keep their interests in check.

I'm sure TIM himself has already handpicked the very person he wants to take over the operation.  We'll just never know it until it happens.