3618 réponses à ce sujet

[didymos1120]

Seboist wrote...

 I sense some emotional instability here, that explains destroying the base.

Oh, please. All y'all alignment apologists (either one) indulge in way too much stereotyping nonsense.

Modifié par didymos1120, 08 août 2011 - 04:23 .

[Sebby]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
If Shep were able of such a thing he would've taken the base for himself in the first place; it's not like he had other stuff to do.

Except you know...killing batarians.

Oh so you're an anti-Batarian bigot now too? I sense some emotional instability here, that explains destroying the base.

He should have said vorcha, as an obvious jab to a certain someone else.

I wouldn't joke about that if I were you, slamming the Vorcha can get someone killed where I"m from.

[Sebby]

didymos1120 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

 I sense some emotional instability here, that explains destroying the base.

Oh, please. All y'all alignment apologists (either one) indulge in way too much stereotyping nonsense.

I'm a man on the edge, I don't align myself to any arbitary morality.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Seboist wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
If Shep were able of such a thing he would've taken the base for himself in the first place; it's not like he had other stuff to do.

Except you know...killing batarians.

Oh so you're an anti-Batarian bigot now too? I sense some emotional instability here, that explains destroying the base.

You say that like I'm a bigot to anything else...

[Sebby]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
If Shep were able of such a thing he would've taken the base for himself in the first place; it's not like he had other stuff to do.

Except you know...killing batarians.

Oh so you're an anti-Batarian bigot now too? I sense some emotional instability here, that explains destroying the base.

You say that like I'm a bigot to anything else...

You're clearly a bigot against humans too by destroying what could have been the biggest advancement for mankind since the discovery of the mass relays.

[Arijharn]

Lol... Seboist, can't you try to troll someone 'subtly'? Or is that actually really against the whole mindset of a Troll in the first place?

I think I'm dwelling on this a bit too much.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Seboist wrote...

You're clearly a bigot against humans too by destroying what could have been the biggest advancement for mankind since the discovery of the mass relays.

I'm not biggoted to anything...people like you are the reason this discussion goes in circles,increasingly small circles.

....Trolls jeez.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 08 août 2011 - 04:47 .

[Saaziel]

Collector base = Mystery box

[Sebby]

Arijharn wrote...

Lol... Seboist, can't you try to troll someone 'subtly'? Or is that actually really against the whole mindset of a Troll in the first place?

I think I'm dwelling on this a bit too much.

That wasn't trolling bub.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Ha... not trolling riiiiight....moving on.

[Sebby]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Ha... not trolling riiiiight....moving on.

Not my fault others can't detect a tongue in cheek comment.

[Arijharn]

I consider your 'trolling' to be tongue in cheek, hence why I 'lol'ed

[Sebby]

Arijharn wrote...

I consider your 'trolling' to be tongue in cheek, hence why I 'lol'ed

I once had a guy thinking I was serious about considering an insult to TIM to be worse than one about my mother even though It couldn't have been more obvious that I wasn't.

[Lotion Soronarr]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Why the hell would Cerberus ever what to build a reaper...EVER?

If you know how to build one, then you know how to build a starship of equal size and power, WITHOUT the goo bits and AI.

Probably for the same reason why the Reapers were created ingeneral. They are warships with advanced AI afterall.

And who's the say they can't find a way to make a non-goo version? EDI is based off them. Same with Sov's gun. No fleshy stuff involved as far as I'm aware. Still, Cerberus Reapers. Human Dominance. Sounds bad.

Eh? So you're agreeing with me then?
Unless you missed something, I did say that they have no need t omek a reaper - not only because it's horribly impractical, but because they can do better (no goo).

And Human Dominance? Not bad.
Human hater.....

[Lotion Soronarr]

alperez wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Or maybe Thane is better than Kai?
May TIM was pissed because of Kai's last faliure?
We can specuialte all we want, but we don't really know.

I prefer to work with more palptable and predictable things in debates - guessing what's in people's heads is not one of them.

Or maybe as i suggested originally its because of Kai's leanings that cerberus don't put him with shepard, everything we're doing is speculating, the difference is at times you paint your speculations as fact.

As for not guessing what's in people's heads, your the one who brought that into the equation by suggesting what tim's motivations in recruiting people was in the first place, so now when an alternative is presented you prefer to deal with more palatable and predictable things.

I'm not the one who brought in motivation in this. It was you folks.
You were insisting on TIM's unletriror motives for everything....

Or TIM is simply smart enough to want more friendly and less tense work enviroment.
You'd have to be pretty dumb to put raging xenophobes on the same ship are aliens.

Your now just arguing my point for me, i suggested that was the reason in my original response, you refuted it only to later make the same point yourself, seriously do you just disagree for the sake of disagreeing.

A possible reason, and somewhat different than what you claimed. You claimed the reason was to fool Sheppard. I said it's possible he just doesn't want unnecessary tensions.
And it still remains just a possible reasons...so again...moot point.

And we can't really tell given the sample we have is too small.

The sample though can be used to prove the point, by recruiting people for other reasons than their usefulness even if it was simply an isolated case which the law of averages suggests it wouldn't be, it proves that TIM's reasoning isn't always how you portrayed it to be.

I disagree. You said TIM said to Kai Lang that's he's just the man he wants. Yet you aslo said TIM lies.
I find it strange that you ignore the possiblity that TIM is telling Kai Lang what he wants to hear.
In fact, if anything this proves that TIM reasoning is not always how YOU portray it to be.

But all of this is irrelevant anyway.
Wild speculations are not something one shuld use as a base for critical decisions of galactic importance.

[Lotion Soronarr]

alperez wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


GAh..There's a hiuge difference between the two.

You are sent in blid..partially to find out WHAT is out there, so you can determine your next step.

There is only so many contingencies you can have and "captuire the base" isn't a contingecy plan..it's 3 words. HOW do you captire that base? Without knowing anything about it or it's defenses you CANNOT make any practical plan.

Destroy or recon ar far easier to plan as it's easy to react ot the situation immediately - shoot or run, depending on strength. With capture it's not as nearly as simple.

So I don't really see wha't you're trying to prove here. Not only is it highly unlikely TIM has any practical plans, it's also completley unnecessary for him to tell you any untill he has confirmation they would work.

There isn't  a huge difference, both situations play out in exactly the same manner, you can't suggest something to be untrue for one scenario by using something that makes little sense in the other, as justification for why one wouldn't exist.

If we're sent in blind with no info to destroy the base then it stands to reason a plan could have been created under the exact same circumstances to keep the base, either way your going in blind with no real info.

Considering like i said that TIM witholds info until he deems it relevant then its also completely sensible that he could have been witholding his real plan until the last possible moment, which is basically all i suggested.

The only thing i'm trying to prove is that your original statement that TIM would not have a plan to keep the base is invalid because your justification for why that is the case, can be used to justify why we shouldn't have a plan to destroy the base either.

Saying a lack of info means a plan couldn't have existed, when the same lack of info is the basis for the plan we're working on makes no sense, destroying the base was a general plan, we get the relevant info later, so how does this preclude keeping the base being a general plan that TIm had, when exactly the same conditions are present?

There is a huge difference and I *can* suggest.

You're not making any sense at all. None.
Blowing the base up is simple (and that plan was also constructed AFTER the relay jump) in comparison to capturing it.

If you notice the cutscence, TIM is not happy with sending you in blind, andd he doesn't give you any specific instructions yet on anything.

http://www.youtube.c... 2 omega 4&aq=f

[Lotion Soronarr]

alperez wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

alperez wrote...


Firstly let me be clear i'm not saying destroying the base is the right choice because its the choice i made, rather i'm saying that the choice to keep or destroy it is based on assuming outcomes of unknown events.

Keep the base.


B. Cerberus can be trusted to fight the reapers.

C, cerberus forces are no real threat.

I'd like to poitn out that 1 and 2 are not really in the game.

1) Cerberus wihth or wihout the base is not a big threat. And any research on the base they do, you can take from them by force - thus making it your own.

2) Trusting Cerberus is irrelevant. Not only because you're really lacking options, but also because of 1.

So to argue my points, you rephrase them and then suggest them as fact, when as usual its based on the assumption that your right, interesting tactic.

So you're saying that taking reaper tech from Cerberus ISN'T easier than taking it from the repaers?
You're saiyng that that isn't a fact?

You're saying that the few hundered cerberus troopers with no navy are a great threat to the galaxy with millions of soldiers and heavy support?
 

[Lotion Soronarr]

alperez wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


I don't dismiss the other 3 posibilities, but they are realisticly so low and insignificant, and the situation so dire, that even if hte risks were 100 times higher, it would STILL be worth taking them.

And yes, I do consider the 3 a flawed logic, in that they focus on the wrong things and that the conclusions are wrong.

Way to prove exactly what i said about your argument, that your assumptions which lead to your conclussions completely blind you to any possibility that your assumptions could be wrong.

I'm not blind to any posibility - I just double-checked those counter-assumptions and the arguments presented and found them wrong.

There's no other way to put it man. I'm wondering if you ever bothered to think it trough....

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I prefer to work with more palptable and predictable things in debates - guessing what's in people's heads is not one of them.

And /lie

what?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

This is a weird debate,we have people fanatically in support of keeping the base,and pretty much no one firmly in support of blowing it, Neutral vs. renegade.

It shows the lack of faith the base destroyers have in their decision.

Not really,most of us have absolute faith in what we did,we just aren't fanactical lotion and telling everyone that if they didn't do what we did they are wrong.

We point out that neither decision is "right" we beleive neither is "wrong"

That's your problem.

You just wish to claim some sort of moral high horse of "fairness" by saying that. And by throwing "right" and "wrong" wihout any context whatsoever.

I'm not afraid to call people out on bad decisions.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Sisterofshane wrote...
I dunno.  Yes, reaper technology is infinitely more advanced, but the level of destruction would be limited by the need of an organic (and according to the Reapers, ultimately flawed) crew.  There COULD be a non-goo version, but I don't think it would ever be quite as powerful as an actual "Reaper".  Cerberus might decide that they prefer the "goo" versions' power after all.

Still, I'm with you.  Giving aforementioned powerful tech to a human-centric (and often xenophobic) organization has a VERY HIGH potential to be bad.

Yolu run int omany problems with the goo versions.

1) You need a LOT of goo for a single reaper, meaning you can only build a limited number of them
2) Could you even control one? Would you trust an AI that cna turn on your?
3) Gathering all the goo would be problematic to say the least, and a logistical nightmare. And you'd have the whole galaxy screasming bloody murder.
4) It's quite simply unnecessary. What can the goo starship do that the non-goo one can't? What purpose does the goo even have for a reaper?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Seboist wrote...
Apparently you don't since you consider the opposite to be "equal".

Neither decision is right or wrong until shown to be so.

That thing called ME3 will be the judge,not us.

Which is beside the point completely. That's NOT how you determine which of the 2 options is more sensible. Again, that's metagaming and that's actualyl compeltely differentt gauge.

You are weighing the decisions based on actual results in the future (which you cannot know).

That is not the same with finding the best option at the moment of decision making.


The best and the most sensible option may not end up to be the "rght" one.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Seboist wrote...
Metagaming.

ah so we have completed a full circle,didn't think we had gotten that far again.

Only because you folks keep ringing that up, since you lack anything else to bring up.

So stop bringing it up, and we'll stop pointing out that's it's irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]Kaiser Shepard wrote...
1) Cerberus wihth or wihout the base is not a big threat. And any research on the base they do, you can take from them by force - thus making it your own.[/quote]
Now that is the part I'm unsure and somewhat worried about. I would mind keeping the base much less on those conditions, but I can't really be sure BioWare makes Shepard competent enough to actually do such a thing. Of course, if I came back on that decision based on what is allowed in ME3, it would be metagaming to some extent. Then again, If Shep were able of such a thing he would've taken the base for himself in the first place; it's not like he had other stuff to do.[/quote]


That's the problem wiht games...they are always limited in the options. In Real life, you would have many options to persue..the game only give you a few.

And while it is logical to assume that since Bio is giving you only these 2 options, it will continue to persue those 2 paths in Me3, from a in-universe prespective Shep doesn't know that.

Most of us would give the base to the Alliance..or organize a joint Cerberus-SA research effort or something. Yet we don't get that option. While that kinda sucks, we have to make do with the 2 options Bio gave us.

[TMA LIVE]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Why the hell would Cerberus ever what to build a reaper...EVER?

If you know how to build one, then you know how to build a starship of equal size and power, WITHOUT the goo bits and AI.

Probably for the same reason why the Reapers were created ingeneral. They are warships with advanced AI afterall.

And who's the say they can't find a way to make a non-goo version? EDI is based off them. Same with Sov's gun. No fleshy stuff involved as far as I'm aware. Still, Cerberus Reapers. Human Dominance. Sounds bad.

Eh? So you're agreeing with me then?
Unless you missed something, I did say that they have no need t omek a reaper - not only because it's horribly impractical, but because they can do better (no goo).

And Human Dominance? Not bad.
Human hater.....

Yeah, I agree it might be possible to make non-flesh-slushy Reapers. Don't know for sure, but if they can, I'd imagine they'd do it. Still, a terrorist organization planning on building adavnced warships to dominate 3 other main races, all because they think they deserve it, and want to rule over them I consider tyranny.