Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAHH!!!Kaiser Shepard wrote...
I suppose you could say we have...*sunglassses*... a fly in the lotion?Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
Ah,classic lotion.Lotion Soronnar wrote...
But all of this is irrelevant anyway.
Wild speculations are not something one shuld use as a base for critical decisions of galactic importance.
Fixed.
Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
Ah,classic lotion.Lotion Soronnar wrote...
But all of this is irrelevant anyway.
Wild speculations are not something one shuld use as a base for critical decisions of galactic importance.
TMA LIVE wrote...
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
TMA LIVE wrote...
You have a lot to make you consider if Cerberus will be a threat. Even Shepard can realize this, and threaten TIM if he tries anything, despite giving him the base.
If the Cerberus is in fact working for the Reapers, it literally means you gave your advantages back to the enemy you stole it from. With them using the base against you, instead of doing something to research advantages.
In which case the enemy gained nothing (as they already have that knowledge) and I lost nothing (as the other alternative is to blow up the base, meaning you loose that knowledge anyway)
You didn't gain anything. Except what you already would have gotten if you destroyed the base.
While the enemy could have lost a Collector base if you blew it up.
TMA LIVE wrote...
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Easily destroy Cerberus? Yes.
They are just a small group after all, and with the info EDI and Miranda have on them, and hte entire galaxy with you..they don't stand a chance.
If you're asking "what if they turn on you near the end of the war?" then by that point they should have already contributed something tech-wise or intel-wise. They would have to do so, because not only does it make sense to do so given the threat of hte reapers (any info should be given to teh SA as soon as it becomesavailable), but everyone would turn agaisnt them if they don't.
And let's not forget - Cerberus doesn't have a naval fleet. The Normandy is the best Cerbers had.
All you're telling me is that if I can destroy Cerberus despite the advantages I gave them, which should the same power to defeat the Reapers, then I never really needed them or the base to begin with.
And those same advantages where something one Collector Ship had. Which oddly enough, as Hackett says, is taking out every ship they send after it. Forcing him to hope you'll do something about it with your advanced and expensive stealth ship, since it's more advanced then anything they have.
And TIM can't use the base to secure Human Dominance if he's giving his stuff to everyone in the galaxy. You can't be dominate if everyone's on the same page as you are. You'd instead have to keep **** for yourself that'll give you the winning edge over everyone else.
And he sure isn't going to give you any more power. Especially since you're going on trial after Arrival. Which can be played before the Suicide Mission.
this discussion is in stalemate,you have contributed nothing but the typical "I'm a logic god I assume things and they become fact.",you refuse to accept the possibility you can be wrong,and instead try to tell everyone else that they are wrong,it isn't a math problem lotion,given the same evidence we shouldn't all come to the same conclussion.Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
Ah,classic lotion.Lotion Soronnar wrote...
But all of this is irrelevant anyway.
Wild speculations are not something one shuld use as a base for critical decisions of galactic importance.
Did you really contribute ANYNTHING of importance lately?
No, all you have is bad jokes, even worse jokes about Cerberus scientists and stabds about other people.
Quit trolling.
TMA LIVE wrote...
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Sovereign was indoctrinating people to serve him. If it was so easy to indoctrinate, why didn't Sovereign use his indoctrinated servants to place indoctrination devices eveywhere?
Heck, Saren would be the perfect candidate for it - being a top Specter means he can go everywhere and even get close to the Council. And Matriach Benezia too!
It's pretty obvious there are some limits to indoctrination that prevent it from being used so simply.
The device may be too large to smuggle or hide, or something else.
Either way, any way you can come up with that Cerberus can use the reaper tech, Sovereign could have also used it. but didn't.
Because the only servent he had that could do it was Saren. And he still has his mind so he can do his job better. He spent most of his time trying not to be indoctrinated, and learning if it was possible not to.
Hell, who's to say the same isn't being done on the Council. You ever wonder why they don't listen to you? It's possible it's already being done on them, yet they still have their minds, and continue running the Citedal, believing Reapers don't exist.
But if that isn't the case, if Saren did try it, he'd probably get caught. He's one man after all. He can't completely control security, or allowed to be within the same room the Council do their meetings without being monitored. While Cerberus has lots of people working for him in the Alliance, and people of command and security. He literally can get away with planting devices within the Alliance.
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
TMA LIVE wrote...
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
TMA LIVE wrote...
You have a lot to make you consider if Cerberus will be a threat. Even Shepard can realize this, and threaten TIM if he tries anything, despite giving him the base.
If the Cerberus is in fact working for the Reapers, it literally means you gave your advantages back to the enemy you stole it from. With them using the base against you, instead of doing something to research advantages.
In which case the enemy gained nothing (as they already have that knowledge) and I lost nothing (as the other alternative is to blow up the base, meaning you loose that knowledge anyway)
You didn't gain anything. Except what you already would have gotten if you destroyed the base.
While the enemy could have lost a Collector base if you blew it up.
The Collector base is irrelevant ot the enemy regarding their war effort. The HR is not aconcern when oyu have thousands of reapers.
Also, I did gain something - knowledge. And I know where to find it. Cerberus has it.
Hence, why I can take that knowledge back. As long as that knowledge exists and it it's in human hands, I can take it easily.
That's not true. To say it was "supposed" to be played at a certain time would be to ignore the very fact that the devs made the mission available immediately after Horizon. Especially when you consider that Shep may not survive the suicide mission to begin with, so there may be no game to play after the suicide mission.Lotion Soronnar wrote...
And he sure isn't going to give you any more power. Especially since you're going on trial after Arrival. Which can be played before the Suicide Mission.
It's supposed to take place after the SM.
And TIM doesn't have to give Shep any more power. He is not humanity.
alperez wrote...
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
There is a huge difference and I *can* suggest.
You're not making any sense at all. None.
Blowing the base up is simple (and that plan was also constructed AFTER the relay jump) in comparison to capturing it.
If you notice the cutscence, TIM is not happy with sending you in blind, andd he doesn't give you any specific instructions yet on anything.
http://www.youtube.c... 2 omega 4&aq=f
Again your tied down to a specific instructions line which is nothing i've ever suggested, blowing up the base is a general plan, so keeping the base could also be a general plan, considering TIM witholds info when it suits him, he could have witheld that this keeping the base was his actual prefered plan all along.
The specifics come in later, your argument was that such a general plan could not have existed because the data wasn't available, my counter is this is also true with blowing up the base and yet that general plan does exist because its the one we're working on.
If it can be true for one (blowing the base) that a general plan was in place and the specifics of that plan were only put in place at a later stage, then it could also be true that (keeping the base) was a general plan that TIM had and the specifics of that plan would only be put in at a later stage.
Considering TIM keeps his cards close to himself, if this plan existed then it also holds true that he may not tell anyone until he wants, thats all i've said, you brought up the lack of data or specifics as a reason as to why this couldn't be the case.
TMA LIVE wrote...
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
The Collector base is irrelevant ot the enemy regarding their war effort. The HR is not aconcern when oyu have thousands of reapers.
Also, I did gain something - knowledge. And I know where to find it. Cerberus has it.
Hence, why I can take that knowledge back. As long as that knowledge exists and it it's in human hands, I can take it easily.
It's not irrelevent if you're preventing them from making more of these guys.
After all, they still want to harvest you.
"Your leaders will beg to be harvested."
But I guess you want that to continue, and don't mind it. Or do you?
And you get knowledge anyways. In your hands. After destroying the base.
Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
this discussion is in stalemate,you have contributed nothing but the typical "I'm a logic god I assume things and they become fact.",you refuse to accept the possibility you can be wrong,and instead try to tell everyone else that they are wrong,it isn't a math problem lotion,given the same evidence we shouldn't all come to the same conclussion.Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
Ah,classic lotion.Lotion Soronnar wrote...
But all of this is irrelevant anyway.
Wild speculations are not something one shuld use as a base for critical decisions of galactic importance.
Did you really contribute ANYNTHING of importance lately?
No, all you have is bad jokes, even worse jokes about Cerberus scientists and stabds about other people.
Quit trolling.
alperez wrote...
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
So you're saying that taking reaper tech from Cerberus ISN'T easier than taking it from the repaers?
You're saiyng that that isn't a fact?
You're saying that the few hundered cerberus troopers with no navy are a great threat to the galaxy with millions of soldiers and heavy support?
No i never said that, what i said was that the 2 arguments you put forth are based on an assumption that cerberus are no real threat and that even if they were it's one that could be handled easily.
Taking the reaper tech from cerberus would off course be easier than taking it from the reapers if that was the simplicity of what you had to do, however taking the tech from cerberus while fighting the reapers would make that much more difficult.
Cerberus's forces on their own may not be a great threat if they attacked right now, however that's not the probelm and not why they could be a big threat, its during or in the aftermath of the reapers that the real level of threat they could possess comes to the fore.
If your fighting on 2 fronts your inherently weaker than if your fighting on one, if your fighting a new enemy right after you've almost been decimated by an enemy then your inherently weaker than when your fighting the first enemy.
Even if all Cerberus had was a few hundred troopers as you suggest then those few hundred troopers could do signifcant damage to your forces, during or after the reaper attack. Special force's units do significant damage to an enemy which is why they are used for specific missions where they can cause the most damage.
Cerberus attacking key points in your forces while your trying to fight the reapers could cause signifcant damage to your attempts at stopping the reapers, Cerberus attacking while your recovering from the fight with the reapers could cause significant damage to your forces and perhaps in that scenario due to a tech advantage and weaker defences could prove to be as big a threat as i've made out.
Metagaming tells us that 40% of the enemies we will be facing in me3 are cerberus, which means they do possess a threat that up to this point we coudn't put a figure on, now if we're facing that 40% on its own, we have no real problem, if however we're facing it added with the reapers or just after that percentage becomes an ever bigger threat.
alperez wrote...
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
.
I'm not blind to any posibility - I just double-checked those counter-assumptions and the arguments presented and found them wrong.
There's no other way to put it man. I'm wondering if you ever bothered to think it trough....
I have no problem with this at all, for the first time you've stated an opinion not fact based or logic based argument to justify your choice.
I've never disagreed with your choice or why you made that choice based on the reasoning you've used, what i have disagreed with constantly though is your suggestion that your choice is the only one that's valid.
When in reality it was the only one valid for you to make, not for someone else.
When he responds with jabbing remarks it's just him being superior,but when he gets it back its trolling...interesting.Someone With Mass wrote...
Oh, as if your comments have been the words of God.
Someone With Mass wrote...
Oh, as if your comments have been the words of God.
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Way better than anything of yours.
You done now?
Can we get back to the topic, or do you want to troll and provoke me some more?
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
TMA LIVE wrote...
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
The Collector base is irrelevant ot the enemy regarding their war effort. The HR is not aconcern when oyu have thousands of reapers.
Also, I did gain something - knowledge. And I know where to find it. Cerberus has it.
Hence, why I can take that knowledge back. As long as that knowledge exists and it it's in human hands, I can take it easily.
It's not irrelevent if you're preventing them from making more of these guys.
After all, they still want to harvest you.
"Your leaders will beg to be harvested."
But I guess you want that to continue, and don't mind it. Or do you?
And you get knowledge anyways. In your hands. After destroying the base.
Irrelevant.
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
You have a very weird defenition of power.
The power of Cerberus isn't direct naval combat.
Their
power is to empower others. By sharing infor and tech, they can enhace
our fleets, thus increasing our chances agaisnt the repaers.
Alone, they can't do that. Alone, they don't have the ships or the manpower to pose a serious threat to anyone.
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Hint - patrols are usually frigates.
And I fail to see what point you're tring to make here....
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
He can't secure human dominance if humanity is dead either. Priorities.
Not
to mention that the base is something that will give benefits over a
long period of time. Even if TIM were to share everything by the time
the reapers arrive, there will be more to dig from the base in the
future.
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
It's supposed to take place after the SM.
And TIM doesn't have to give Shep any more power. He is not humanity.
Modifié par TMA LIVE, 08 août 2011 - 07:38 .
It can be played before. You can't say otherwise.
Modifié par strive, 08 août 2011 - 07:41 .
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
TMA LIVE wrote...
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
The Collector base is irrelevant ot the enemy regarding their war effort. The HR is not aconcern when oyu have thousands of reapers.
Also, I did gain something - knowledge. And I know where to find it. Cerberus has it.
Hence, why I can take that knowledge back. As long as that knowledge exists and it it's in human hands, I can take it easily.
It's not irrelevent if you're preventing them from making more of these guys.
After all, they still want to harvest you.
"Your leaders will beg to be harvested."
But I guess you want that to continue, and don't mind it. Or do you?
And you get knowledge anyways. In your hands. After destroying the base.
Irrelevant.
A few husks are no match for the military of any nation - assuming Cerberus can even manage to create them or control them.
And building a reaper of their own is stupid, impractical, resource-intensive, unfeasable and no one wioulddo that, nor could the Cerberus pull it off if they wanted to.
strive wrote...
It can be played before. You can't say otherwise.
To be fair, in one of the BioWare pulse shows they said Arrival is canonically after the SM.
Modifié par TMA LIVE, 08 août 2011 - 07:45 .
strive wrote...
It can be played before. You can't say otherwise.
To be fair, in one of the BioWare pulse shows they said Arrival is canonically after the SM.
That's an opinion. If they wanted it that way, it would only be played after the SM. They didn't do that.
They can say that, but that doesn't change that I can change the order in game.
Modifié par strive, 08 août 2011 - 07:51 .
Someone With Mass wrote...
strive wrote...
It can be played before. You can't say otherwise.
To be fair, in one of the BioWare pulse shows they said Arrival is canonically after the SM.
And it doesn't really make sense if you play it before the SM, either.
The Reapers are just on the edge of the galaxy, but then you blow up the relay, and then they're suddenly way back in dark space, waking up from their hibernation?
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