3618 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I know what he sez. But what kind of ships?
Note that Thanix gives Normady the firepower of a CRUISER.

So? You think it's just as easy as to just strapping the Thanix onto every ship there is?

It's not. It's really not.

You have to readjust the power systems, you have to give the gun and the ship a new feeding mechanism and you have to make new space in the ship in which it can carry its new payload. Not to mention that I don't think that the turians or anyone involved with the government want to make the Thanix so publicly available if it can make a frigate carry enough firepower to take on a cruiser and win.

Not the point I was making.

The point I was making is that the Normady had the firepwoer of a Cruiser. And it took the Collector ship down.

Of course, jokers fancy flying has to be taken into account - but it seem that the Collector ships isn't really that special, and that 2-3 cruisers should be able to take it down.

So what kind of ships was SA sending..and how many at a time?

[Lotion Soronarr]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Get off the high horse you're claiming I'm riding upon.

My approval? Boy, you sure know how to deliberatly misinterpret and read into things.

And that is funny in a sad, sad way.

You seem to be insulted by everything that isn't design to suck up to you. so..If I want good arguments and facts, I'm being rude now? Heh.

Sad indeed.


Given the barrage of insults ftom H_T, SWM and a few others, I'd say me holding back was more than exemplary.
If you're so much insulted by me poking holes in your arguments, maybe you shouldn't read my posts.

I'm just saying, if you want to know why they're being hostile to you, that's why.

You're even literally telling people that can't even metagame there reasons.

I'm not telliong them what they can or can't do - I'm telling them that metagming reasons fall outside of the scope of the discussion. IC decission cannot call to metagaming knowledge.

Shep doesn't know he's in a game. He doesn't know anything about ME3 or anything else outside of his universe and experience.

If you take the Paragon options because bioware always rewards paragons, then that is a fine decision - BUT it doesn't fall into the crux of the discussion.

[Sisterofshane]

Pulletlamer wrote...

There was a discussion about it some time ago.

TMA LIVE wrote...

About the date, I'll tweet Casey or someone about it. If they give a specific date, I'll post it.

Thanks, looking forward to their answer (if they do answer).

To me anyway it feels like it's intended to be played after arrival, since you talk with Harbringer (you talk with the Collector General if you do it before) since he says at the end "we'll find another way" and that could be considered the plan to enter through the Alpha Relay.

And you're facing the trial on earth in ME3 due to the events of Arrival. It makes not so much sense for the trial to wait more than a year to take place. Hackett said he'll hold them but 1 year+? Doubt the batarians are going to wait so much time.. At least I see it that way.

Still, this is assuming that the Human Reaper was then intended to somehow either complete the destruction of the galaxy by itself, or that it was the Key to bringing back the Reapers from dark space after the BotC failed to open up the relay to darkspace.  Neither of those choices makes very much sense to me.  It's easier to assume that, when Harbinger says "we will find another way", that he is refering to the construction of the Reaper, not the return of the Reapers from Darkspace.

The hot theory right now on this is Mimaz98's Dissertation on the Steam Forums :forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php
He explains very thoroughly why it might make more sense to play arrival before the SM.

[goofyomnivore]

apparent timeline of Arrival does not seem to have any consequences that relate directly into the story

Agreed however this all started from TMA mentioning it as a rebuttal to Lotion, and I mentioned that the timeline indicates Arrival happened after the SM. I didn't refute or dismiss any of the content, just the time and place. I don't think it matters, but he was using it as proof for one of his arguments.

Yeah, but I'm saying fans could have assumed they're 2185-2186. Or they could be the ones who put that down. etc.

Well Cerberus Daily News, is reported "daily" throughout Mass Effect 2, which happens between 2185-2186. I'm pretty sure the dates are parallel to the x/x2010/11 at the top too, since they give in game nods to human holidays during the reports on specific dates (new years, Christmas, etc).

This is way off topic, and I have to go, so hopefully TMA will get that tweet for us. Anyways, cheers happy forum-ing.

Modifié par strive, 08 août 2011 - 11:58 .

[Pulletlamer]

@SisterofShane I have read it. I even posted in the thread here on BSN.

I'm not assuming anything, I don't know what was the purpose of the Human Reaper.

I don't know about that second part. I think Harbringer meant the Collectors have failed and that they'll find another way to "whatever". "Whatever" being some kind of plan the Reapers have. It may mean the reproduction, it may mean the return of the Reapers. Since we don't know exactly what the reapers motivations are, we can't say for sure.

Modifié par Pulletlamer, 09 août 2011 - 12:00 .

[Sisterofshane]

strive wrote...

apparent timeline of Arrival does not seem to have any consequences that relate directly into the story

Agreed however this all started from TMA mentioning it as a rebuttal to Lotion, and I mentioned that the timeline indicates Arrival happened after the SM. I didn't refute or dismiss any of the content, just the time and place. I don't think it matters, but he was using it as proof for one of his arguments.

.

Lol, I was doing the same to Lotion, only with a different spin -- the time and place of arrival has no bearance on the actual story line, so to add it into your argument as "evidence" that you are right is a moot point.
No wonder we got confused!

[Lotion Soronarr]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Asari drugs? Thet have to be administered to every Asari? That's
about as practical as having your troops run around with needles trying
to infect all enemy soldiers with a virus.

And I say again - you
cannot dominate anyone if you don't survive. I have examples of
TIM doing things to perserve peace between the races andease tensions.
ther's examples of TIM feeding tech to the SA.
Not yet with the turians, but that doesn't prove anything, as htere was no reaper threat before.

You never consider a more airborn version? Or stunning an entire asari unit with Collector bugs, that also infect them? The base can probably help them with that too, since that can learn how to make them.

And what examples do you have? Is there a link?

Those bugs really shouldn't work agaisnt sealed body armor..but the game is stupid that way. I digress.

Shadow Broker files. The list of Cerberus activities. Look it up.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I know what he sez. But what kind of ships?
Note that Thanix gives Normady the firepower of a CRUISER.

He doesn't say patrol ships. You're allowed to assume he sent patrol ships after a Collector Ship. Though I don't consider that smart of the Alliance to do if they planned on taking it out.

But considering they say "We're outmatched" I'd say they sent bigger things them simply patrol ships. Otherwise, he wouldn't say that.

And the Normandy is considered a Frigate.

And if the Normandy can take it out, then so can other ships.
Like you said - it's just a frigate. Even unapgraded it can take out the Collector ship.
Upgraded, it has the firepower of a cruiser.

So if the SA sent a cruiser or two, they should have been a even match for the Collector ship.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

If the rest of the galaxy burns, so does humanity. Humanity
CANNOT stand alone. This is a fact that everyone acknowledges - Hackett,
TIM.. everyone.

Nothing you said here contradict my post you quoted.

Has TIM said humanity can't stand alone, and that they need the other races? I don't remember him saying that.

But if you want my opinion, if TIM wanted to dominate while the rest of the galaxy doesn't benefit, he simple gives the the tech and knowledge to the Alliance, who uses it to win against the Reapers. While he keeps whatever he has too to himself and Cerberus.

That doesn't change the rest of the galaxy fighting the Reapers. Or the Alliance fighting with them. But humanity clearly has the better goods, and remains the most powerful in the end.

And that's if he wasn't working for the Reapers.

And if hte Alliance further gives the tech?
Cause you are now operating on two assumptions - that Cerberus won't give anything at all. And that if it gives to the SA, the SA won't pass it on.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Indeed. I don't think the Collector ship was ever intended to be used in a head-to-head battle. Consider its design. The ship is shaped like a long tube, completely exposed right down the middle all the way down to the engine block. It's no surprise. That's a huge design flaw for a combat vehicle.

Considering the Collectors' job, I don't think that thing was designed for combat. 

[TMA LIVE]

Pulletlamer wrote...

There was a discussion about it some time ago.

TMA LIVE wrote...

About the date, I'll tweet Casey or someone about it. If they give a specific date, I'll post it.

Thanks, looking forward to their answer (if they do answer).

To me anyway it feels like it's intended to be played after arrival, since you talk with Harbringer (you talk with the Collector General if you do it before) since he says at the end "we'll find another way" and that could be considered the plan to enter through the Alpha Relay.

And you're facing the trial on earth in ME3 due to the events of Arrival. It makes not so much sense for the trial to wait more than a year to take place. Hackett said he'll hold them but 1 year+? Doubt the batarians are going to wait so much time.. At least I see it that way.

I do consider it more intented for after SM, simple because A) The rest of the galaxy pretends it never happened. And Because after ME2, they've just arrived. And in Arrival, they're suppose to be at the edge.

But I do see Arrival having it's uses before the SM. It's one of the only times you talk to Harv, without knowing he's a Reaper. I use it as a good motivator for keeping the base. And it's gives the best excuse why you can't go back to the Alliance, even after they realize the Collector threat.

That, and it's hard to tell Hackett that you'll investigate the Reaper invasion "later", and save it until after the SM. Because unless you don't want to change outfits for your character or don't read emails after Horizon, it kind of forces itself on you.

[TMA LIVE]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Indeed. I don't think the Collector ship was ever intended to be used in a head-to-head battle. Consider its design. The ship is shaped like a long tube, completely exposed right down the middle all the way down to the engine block. It's no surprise. That's a huge design flaw for a combat vehicle.

Considering the Collectors' job, I don't think that thing was designed for combat. 

Yeah, as Shepard says in the Renegade Speech, Collectors are more hit and run fighters.

Still, Hacketts line still bothers me that apparently the Collector Ship is too much for them. Maybe the speed of the Normandy makes a difference?

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 09 août 2011 - 12:56 .

[TMA LIVE]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Pulletlamer wrote...

There was a discussion about it some time ago.

TMA LIVE wrote...

About the date, I'll tweet Casey or someone about it. If they give a specific date, I'll post it.

Thanks, looking forward to their answer (if they do answer).

To me anyway it feels like it's intended to be played after arrival, since you talk with Harbringer (you talk with the Collector General if you do it before) since he says at the end "we'll find another way" and that could be considered the plan to enter through the Alpha Relay.

And you're facing the trial on earth in ME3 due to the events of Arrival. It makes not so much sense for the trial to wait more than a year to take place. Hackett said he'll hold them but 1 year+? Doubt the batarians are going to wait so much time.. At least I see it that way.

Still, this is assuming that the Human Reaper was then intended to somehow either complete the destruction of the galaxy by itself, or that it was the Key to bringing back the Reapers from dark space after the BotC failed to open up the relay to darkspace.  Neither of those choices makes very much sense to me.  It's easier to assume that, when Harbinger says "we will find another way", that he is refering to the construction of the Reaper, not the return of the Reapers from Darkspace.

The hot theory right now on this is Mimaz98's Dissertation on the Steam Forums :forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php
He explains very thoroughly why it might make more sense to play arrival before the SM.

Yeah, I think I made a thread about this a while back trying to figure out what that meant. I pretty much came to the conclusion that "We'll find another way" meant making humanity into a Reaper. Because if the Reapers are only 6 months or 12 months away, then they don't need another way to get here.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 09 août 2011 - 01:06 .

[TMA LIVE]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

And if the Normandy can take it out, then so can other ships.
Like you said - it's just a frigate. Even unapgraded it can take out the Collector ship.
Upgraded, it has the firepower of a cruiser.

So if the SA sent a cruiser or two, they should have been a even match for the Collector ship.

Which is why I keep scratching my head, wondering why the Alliance could possibly outmatched by a Collector Ship, while Shepard's one, fully upgraded ship apparently takes it out like nothing.

I also hate the concept of the Alliance possibly sending ships after the Collectors, since chances are, they're going into the Terminus Systems. In ME1, they claim doing so is an act of war. But I seriously doubt the Collectors would be going in Alliance space. So it's one of those brain hurt moments.

And if hte Alliance further gives the tech?
Cause you are now
operating on two assumptions - that Cerberus won't give anything at all.
And that if it gives to the SA, the SA won't pass it on.

If the Alliance did, that'd be out of his control, unless he really had enough pull when it comes to how the Alliance does things. Which is possible, since they did convince the Alliance to work with the Turians to make the original Normandy, for study reasons. What happens though is anyone's guess.

All i know is, if TIM claims that base will secure human dominance, and he plans to use it for more then just Reapers, then he'd have to hold some stuff back if he can help it. Because if the base was just about survival, that's how he'd say it. if it was just about survivial, you give that stuff to everyone. But instead he says dominance, and against the Reapers and beyond. Which can't happen if he gives everything over to everyone. Then he has no advantages over anything then just Reapers. It wouldn't secure human domance. It would just secure survival. Which means, again, if he wants to secure human dominace, he'd have to hold anything he could back. Maybe even the base itself, but email the knowledge, and ways to create advanced ships to the Alliance. While still keeping everything else secured by Cerberus.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 09 août 2011 - 01:33 .

[alperez]

Lotion.

I was going to answer each of your replies post by post but at this stage its just clogging up the thread with numerous posts, so instead i'm gonna try to do it in just one.

1. TIM having a plan to keep the base, you dismiss this as a possibility by stating he couldn't have had such a plan because of the specifics of what that plan may entail.

Even though we're already using exactly the same criteria in TIM's plan to destroy the base, going in blind with no specific plans whatsoever.

Destroying the base is a general plan, specifics of how to destroy the base come later, if it can be true for that plan, then it stands to reason that it could also be true for a plan to keep the base, but rather than see this argument, you return to we don't have enough info to do one, without understanding that we don't have the info to do either.

As for game set and match to you, seriously at times you show the maturity of a 12 year old.

2. I used metagaming to prove a point, your argument is that cerberus are not a threat because they haven't got the resources, even though you now know they do, you still cling to the same argument.

Demand the tech from cerberus in intervals and if they don't hand it over then take it by force and that way you'll get your hands on the tech before the reapers arrive, that's your answer.

Just how much time do you think we have? the reapers are basically here, so how long exactly are these intervals you suggest, just how much time do we give cerberus to hand us over this tech before we begin to take it over by force.

You continually argue that cerberus Would be no more than a nuisance, even though you now know this to be a false premise (yes its metagaming but it still proves your point wrong), then your solution to sorting out a problem if they turn on you once the reapers arrive, is to not wait until the reapers arrive.

The benefits outweigh the risks stated as fact, something you cannot know and only assume to be true.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Nice, we've actually surpassed the previous topic in size now. Good job, guys!

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

But we're not on page 80 yet.




well maybe the next post will do the job

[TMA LIVE]

Saphra Deden wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Still, Hacketts line still bothers me that apparently the Collector Ship is too much for them. Maybe the speed of the Normandy makes a difference?

EDI is probably what makes the difference. Remember that the Collectors can black-out entire colonies. Perhaps they can do something similar with any Alliance ships that try to stop them.

EDI however can counter their cyber-attacks which leaves the Normandy free.

After all we saw what the IFF did when it interfeared with the systems. The Collector ship itself tried to stall the Normandy when we sprung the trap while investigating it.

Any ship without EDI may very well have been helpless.

Ah, true. With both EDI and Joker at the helm, in a ship tailored to fight a Collector Ship, that might be the advantage the Alliance doesn't have.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

No...sleep..til 80.

[Sebby]

HomelessGal wrote...

Then let's get to 80.

I think curing the Genophage at this point, regardless of whether or not it was the right decision to use it in the first place, is the wrong thing to do.

Curing the genophage is certainly a very risky thing to do. There's no indicator that Wrex's reforms will last after he's gone. That's why my Shep keeps Maelon's data as just leverage. :happy:

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

HomelessGal wrote...

Then let's get to 80.

I think curing the Genophage at this point, regardless of whether or not it was the right decision to use it in the first place, is the wrong thing to do.

You dare doubt Mordin?(who actually doubts it himself)
*slaps you with glove* this means war.


On a serious note do you mean curing it in ME3? I honestly can't think of any use for curing it would be,Krogan are only good on the ground,maybe shock troopers? With Wrex at the helm of the Krogans,I would hope they wouldn't abuse the second chance,but who knows.

IMO even more risky then giving Cerbs the base.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 09 août 2011 - 02:24 .

[TMA LIVE]

Anyways, I haven't got a reply yet, but since Mass Effect: Inquisition takes place in 2186, with Captain Bailey taking a new job, it's safe to say that the end of ME2 is in the year 2186, or close to that year. Now it's just a matter of 12 or 6 months going by after that. If the year was June 2187 in ME3, then that means 12 months after ME2 is May, June, or July of 2186. Or if it's 6 months, it's December of 2186, or January of 2187.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 09 août 2011 - 02:35 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

On a serious note do you mean curing it in ME3? I honestly can't think of any use for curing it would be,Krogan are only good on the ground,maybe shock troopers? With Wrex at the helm of the Krogans,I would hope they wouldn't abuse the second chance,but who knows.

IMO even more risky then giving Cerbs the base.

Erhm, no:


"Finally the Council turned to the turians newcomers on the Citadel who had a massive fleet and a militaristic culture. Establishing hidden command centres, like Pinnacle Station, turians were able to defeat many krogan bands. But the krogan responded with characteristically horrific attacks on turian worlds, using asteroids as weapons and rendering three planets totally uninhabitable."

I'd say that would make them pretty goddamn useful in the air as well. Whether that's a pro or a con for curing the genophage is up to you, though.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 09 août 2011 - 02:34 .

[Someone With Mass]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Anyways, I haven't got a reply yet, since Mass Effect: Inquisition takes place in 2186, with Captain Bailey taking a new job, it's safe to say that the end of ME2 is in the year 2186. Now it's just a matter of 12 or 6 months going by after that. If the year was June 2187, then that means 12 months from that is May, June, or July 2186 is after the end of ME2. Or if it's 6 months, it's December of 2186, or January of 2187.

That's pretty confusing, so I'm just going to answer with a milkshake.