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[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You shoot yourself in the foot here.
"Stop the collectors" is a genral as you can get. That's no plan - taht's a statement of intenet.

And no point does TIM tell you to blow the base up. Yet you expect him to tell you to capture it before we (and he) even knows anything about the base, or even if there is one to begin with!

Again, you can't capture something just like that. you need ot know waht kind of defenses it has, security, the opposing forces - you can't even tell if capturing it is a feasable plan AT ALL. What if the base reactor was incapable of triggering that pulse? That then?


So I really don't understand your point at all. You want TIM to give you a non-existing plan to capture the base based on nothing, when he didn't give you any plan to blow it up before that either?

And yes, practical concerns are in fact, very relevant. You've been atrributing nefarious motives to TIM's late reveal of hte plan, when what he did is compeltley normal for anyone to do.

Figuring out that there's a base instead of a planet in the galactic core isn't that hard, you know.

It's also completely possible to come up with a consensus on whenever they should destroy the enemy's base of operations or try to salvage it, whatever it might be well before starting the operation. Maybe TIM should've done that instead of kissing Shepard's ass and telling him how much good of a soldier and an icon he is.

Different tactics. They do exist.

Also, it's pretty much a military procedure. If the enemy has some tactical advantage over you, your best option is to eliminate that advantage, unless other orders are in effect.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 09 août 2011 - 03:34 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Also where is the dialog that states Hacket had sent Alliance ships after it?

Arrival pre-SM:

"We're setting fleets around our major colonies and evacuating our smaller ones. But the ships that encountered the Collectors haven't reported back."

So the Collector have already attacked alliance space? How many ships (that were destroyed by the Collectors) are we exactly talking about? Why wasn't this info part of the main-game?

Good question. I was always under the impression that the Alliance was doing nothing, or couldn't because it was the Terminus Systems. Next thing I know, they're sending ships after the Collectors, and claim they're outmatched.

I woulda ctually go so far and call this incosistence or contradicting with what we saw in ME2.

If the Alliance have evacuated colonies in response to the Collectors whey weren't that ever told or head about in the news?

If the Alliance have run into the cruiser multiple times wouldn't they also have solid proof that there is a threat against humanity and the Alliance for the council. Why would the human council still not care?

[TMA LIVE]

Well, Hackett says they're evacuating and protecting their colonies, aka the ones in Council Space.

And keep in mind, this is only after Horizon, when the Alliance is given proof of the Collector threat, and not attacks by Cerberus. So only then are they trying to do something about it.

As for if the Collectors are now targeting human Alliance colonies in Council Space, or if the Alliance somehow found a way to send ships into the Terminus Systems without starting a war, I don't know which.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 09 août 2011 - 03:44 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Well, Hackett says they're evacuating and protecting their colonies, aka the ones in Council Space.

And keep in mind, this is only after Horizon, when the Alliance is given proof of the Collector threat, and not attacks by Cerberus. So only then are they trying to do something about it.

As for if the Collectors are now targeting human Alliance colonies in Council Space, or if the Alliance somehow found a way to send ships into the Terminus Systems without starting a war, I don't know which.

Whoops. Forgot about it being post-Horizon.

But if they are only evacuating Alliance colonies then that would imply that the Collectors have tried to harvest in council space.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I can see the reaosn why you came to those conclusions.
They just happen to be the wrong reasons,in my oppinion.

Fixed for accuracy.

Why is it so hard to accept that your oppinion isn't a fact,everyone was given the aame information as you,and they came to a different conclussion that absolutely does not mean they are wrong. Instead of accepting peoples oppinions as just that,you have to argue that they are wrong,you manipulate everything to fit into your little argument,and when you can't you resort to your buzzwords (logic,reasoning,rational,irrelevant,),you don't have to agree with the reasons people blew the base,but it isn't your place to judge.

so go ahead and do your nitpicking of what I said,cut it into sentences and say,"Ha see I'm right because I don't assume anything I asspull facts." we've reached some milestones in this thread and no one has used the trump card on you,but you have proven to be illogical,beyond reasoning,and irrational,no matter how many intelligent and well thought out reasons you get for blowing the base,you disagree and have to argue that they are wrong.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You shoot yourself in the foot here.
"Stop the collectors" is a genral as you can get. That's no plan - taht's a statement of intenet.

And no point does TIM tell you to blow the base up. Yet you expect him to tell you to capture it before we (and he) even knows anything about the base, or even if there is one to begin with!

Again, you can't capture something just like that. you need ot know waht kind of defenses it has, security, the opposing forces - you can't even tell if capturing it is a feasable plan AT ALL. What if the base reactor was incapable of triggering that pulse? What then?


So I really don't understand your point at all. You want TIM to give you a non-existing plan to capture the base based on nothing, when he didn't give you any plan to blow it up before that either?

And yes, practical concerns are in fact, very relevant. You've been atrributing nefarious motives to TIM's late reveal of hte plan, when what he did is compeltley normal for anyone to do.

Figuring out that there's a base instead of a planet in the galactic core isn't that hard, you know.

It's also completely possible to come up with a consensus on whenever they should destroy the enemy's base of operations or try to salvage it, whatever it might be well before starting the operation. Maybe TIM should've done that instead of kissing Shepard's ass and telling him how much good of a soldier and an icon he is.

Different tactics. They do exist.

Also, it's pretty much a military procedure. If the enemy has some tactical advantage over you, your best option is to eliminate that advantage, unless other orders are in effect.

And you could be very wrong. What if there's another realy back there that leasds somewhere else?
Or another ship. Or a dyson spehere?

So as I said - you don't know if it's even possibel to capture it, so telling you to do so before it's even known if it's possible is utterly redundant.

Destrying the enemy is preety muhc the standard modus operandi, yes - which is why TIM calls you when he finds a way to capture it. Nothing strange or nefarious there.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I can see the reaosn why you came to those conclusions.
They just happen to be the wrong reasons,in my oppinion.

Fixed for accuracy.

Why is it so hard to accept that your oppinion isn't a fact,everyone was given the aame information as you,and they came to a different conclussion that absolutely does not mean they are wrong. Instead of accepting peoples oppinions as just that,you have to argue that they are wrong,you manipulate everything to fit into your little argument,and when you can't you resort to your buzzwords (logic,reasoning,rational,irrelevant,),you don't have to agree with the reasons people blew the base,but it isn't your place to judge.

so go ahead and do your nitpicking of what I said,cut it into sentences and say,"Ha see I'm right because I don't assume anything I asspull facts." we've reached some milestones in this thread and no one has used the trump card on you,but you have proven to be illogical,beyond reasoning,and irrational,no matter how many intelligent and well thought out reasons you get for blowing the base,you disagree and have to argue that they are wrong.

The bolded words describe you pretty accurately.

I see you wont' stop wiht the insults untill I accept your oppinion. I won't. All the insults in thewrold won't change that.

And you know what they say about oppinions - everyone has one. But some are more accurate then others.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

So I don't find that theory credible at all.

Okay, so what other option is there?

If cyber attacks are impossible then why do we have EDI at all? Cyberwarfare doesn't exist according to you.

I didn't say we don't have cyber warfare. I said it doesn't go as you describe it.

You can't just hack a warship in ME anymore than I can take control of a Nimitz class carrier.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

I haven't insulted you at all,if you perceive what you have been saying and doing being shown back to you as an insult then the only one insulting you is yourself.

Also thank you for proving my point,you don't have an argument to go against it so you nitpicked and said "Oh yeah,well...your face!"

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 09 août 2011 - 04:55 .

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


And you could be very wrong. What if there's another realy back there that leasds somewhere else?
Or another ship. Or a dyson spehere?

So as I said - you don't know if it's even possibel to capture it, so telling you to do so before it's even known if it's possible is utterly redundant.

Destrying the enemy is preety muhc the standard modus operandi, yes - which is why TIM calls you when he finds a way to capture it. Nothing strange or nefarious there.

Yeah, because planning for the possibilities is so stupid. Let's just rush in there like Leeroy Jenkins and take things as they come instead.

Also, I don't think you can get much safer than the galactic core, considering that you can only get through it with the right IFF. Otherwise, you'll fly right into a black hole.

A Dyson sphere? Really? Do you even know what that is? It would've so impractical, it's not even funny.

[Shepard the Leper]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

 You can't just hack a warship in ME anymore than I can take control of a Nimitz class carrier.

Oh, but you can. That's why EDI exists. She even tells you what she can do. She can hack into an enemy star ship and disrupt their targeting ability, turn off life support and/or gravity, and even send their fusion plant into meltdown. (fusion... hmm... that implies radioactive... that reminds me...)

So, what is stopping the Collectors from doing this to Alliance ships?

We need some means to explain the Collector ship besting the Alliance and this is the best way I can find. Otherwise as has been pointed out the Collector ship is not very formidable and any Alliance cruiser or number of frigates should have been able to down it. The Normandy after all takes it out in one shot.

You cannot hack a closed system, nobody can. When I unplug the ethernet cable, I'm the only one who's able to do something with my computer. Furthermore, one needs to have intimate knowledge about the computer-systems in use. EDI might be able to hack starships using similar systems as the Normandy, or other (older) ones stored in her database. EDI cannot hack unknown systems (and neither can the the Reapers).

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

You cannot hack a closed system, nobody can. When I unplug the ethernet cable, I'm the only one who's able to do something with my computer. Furthermore, one needs to have intimate knowledge about the computer-systems in use. EDI might be able to hack starships using similar systems as the Normandy, or other (older) ones stored in her database. EDI cannot hack unknown systems (and neither can the the Reapers).

Do the organic ships broadcast wireless extranet to stuff like omnitools,isn't that vulnerability? Couldn't EDI learn those computers and systems are light speed because she is a computer aswell?

[Someone With Mass]

The only thing that would suffer from a deliberate shutout because of hacking attempts is a fleet. One single ship can do it without problem.

[Shepard the Leper]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Shepard the Leper wrote...

You cannot hack a closed system, nobody can. When I unplug the ethernet cable, I'm the only one who's able to do something with my computer. Furthermore, one needs to have intimate knowledge about the computer-systems in use. EDI might be able to hack starships using similar systems as the Normandy, or other (older) ones stored in her database. EDI cannot hack unknown systems (and neither can the the Reapers).

Do the organic ships broadcast wireless extranet to stuff like omnitools,isn't that vulnerability? Couldn't EDI learn those computers and systems are light speed because she is a computer aswell?

It's hard to imagine how computer systems will work in the distant future - the stuff quantum computers can do blows my mind away

But anything based on a binary system (like we are using today) cannot 'comprehend' any alien system without observing and analyzing data over long periods of time (based on the capabilities of the system being analyzed - the slower it operates, the longer it will take to 'crack' or 'understand' it).

[TMA LIVE]

Well, EDI is already based off Sovereign. And I imagine the Collectors run their systems similar to the Reapers.

[Rekkampum]

This is an epic discussion.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Rekkampum wrote...

This is an epic discussion.

Not sure if serious.

[TMA LIVE]

If Cerberus really is working for the Reapers, and is using the resources of the Collector Base against you, some say they can just battle Cerberus, and win the base back.

But what happens if Cerberus sets the base to self destruct in order for the enemy to not take the base back from the Reapers? And this is if you try to steal it back from them.

Would you be pissed if no matter what, the base gained you nothing except a harder time while playing? That you're still on the same playing field as those who blew it up in the beginning?

[jedierick]

Blowing up the base is just as logical as keeping it, people have different POV. Reality is both sides have fair assumptions as to why it should or should not be kept.

Blowing up the base - Anyone can make assumptions as to why it was a good idea to blow it up, nothing on it worth keeping, an abomination, EDI got all we need when she was in the systems, I dont trust TIM, I dont trust Cerberus, could be used against us in the long run, reapers might use it again.

Keeping it - Know more about the reapers, gain tech we don't have, upper hand, etc.

In the end, everything is an assumption, because there is nothing concrete in the game saying what could or could not come from it. If a person who is for keeping the base says keeping it is a good idea to research the human reaper, a person against could say EDI gathered all the info we need on it, or the human reaper was completely destroyed.

Anything after the fact is an assumption. Nobody can say for a fact what would come of it.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

jedierick wrote...

Blowing up the base is just as logical as keeping it, people have different POV. Reality is both sides have fair assumptions as to why it should or should not be kept.

Blowing up the base - Anyone can make assumptions as to why it was a good idea to blow it up, nothing on it worth keeping, an abomination, EDI got all we need when she was in the systems, I dont trust TIM, I dont trust Cerberus, could be used against us in the long run, reapers might use it again.

Keeping it - Know more about the reapers, gain tech we don't have, upper hand, etc.

In the end, everything is an assumption, because there is nothing concrete in the game saying what could or could not come from it. If a person who is for keeping the base says keeping it is a good idea to research the human reaper, a person against could say EDI gathered all the info we need on it, or the human reaper was completely destroyed.

Anything after the fact is an assumption. Nobody can say for a fact what would come of it.

That makes too much sense and is too logical,you're going to upset some people with that.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

I haven't insulted you at all,if you perceive what you have been saying and doing being shown back to you as an insult then the only one insulting you is yourself.

Also thank you for proving my point,you don't have an argument to go against it so you nitpicked and said "Oh yeah,well...your face!"

So calling someone irrational, beyond reasoning, illogical ad generally mocking him is NOT insulting in any way?

And what point are you talking about?