3618 réponses à ce sujet

[Sebby]

Cerberus aren't "racist terrorists" that's bull**** slander from the Council.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Davie McG wrote...

The elusive man condoned the torture of many, the use of illegal and possibly harmful drugs on a child. He's a control freak and a liar, not to mention everyone in the galaxy considers him and his organization to be racist terrorists.

This to me doesn't sound like the guy to be in charge of uniting the governments and people of the galaxy. Which is what we need to do of we want to stop the reapers.

He isn't trying to unite the galaxy he is trying to put Humans at the top.

[Sisterofshane]

Davie McG wrote...

The elusive man condoned the torture of many, the use of illegal and possibly harmful drugs on a child. He's a control freak and a liar, not to mention everyone in the galaxy considers him and his organization to be racist terrorists.

This to me doesn't sound like the guy to be in charge of uniting the governments and people of the galaxy. Which is what we need to do of we want to stop the reapers.

A rather simplistic way to put it, but it was a reason why I destroyed the base.
Sooner or later, your allies would find out that you gave TIM the means of which to become so technologically advanced that he could, in essence, out-do every other race within the galaxy.

Annnnddd, defeating the Reapers without allies would be impossible, unless you found a magic super weapon (mcguffin) aboard the CB.  That's not very likely.  Especially now in hidsight that the devs have said that there is no "off" switch (yes, I know, meta-gaming, but I had thought about this in all likelihood before it was said -- an off switch would have been just too lame to even consider).

I'd rather put all my ducks into the row that included all of the allies I worked so hard to gain in ME and ME2, instead of with TIM, who kind of kidnapped me and forced me to play his "game".

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

A rather simplistic way to put it, but it was a reason why I destroyed the base.
Sooner or later, your allies would find out that you gave TIM the means of which to become so technologically advanced that he could, in essence, out-do every other race within the galaxy.

This is apparently worse than the Reapers wiping out all life in the galaxy. If the rest of the species are as assbackwards as you then they don't deserve to live.

classic saphra,ignore 75% of the post and throw in an insult.

Stay classy Saphra.

[Davie McG]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Davie McG wrote...

The elusive man condoned the torture of many, the use of illegal and possibly harmful drugs on a child. He's a control freak and a liar, not to mention everyone in the galaxy considers him and his organization to be racist terrorists.

This to me doesn't sound like the guy to be in charge of uniting the governments and people of the galaxy. Which is what we need to do of we want to stop the reapers.

He isn't trying to unite the galaxy he is trying to put Humans at the top.

That's my point. In ME3 we need to unite the galaxy to defeat the reapers, something that the elusive man would be crap at. Even if you try your best a lot of people will consider you part of an illegal terrorist organization, which isn't the type of thing that's helpful in such a situation.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Davie McG wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Davie McG wrote...

The elusive man condoned the torture of many, the use of illegal and possibly harmful drugs on a child. He's a control freak and a liar, not to mention everyone in the galaxy considers him and his organization to be racist terrorists.

This to me doesn't sound like the guy to be in charge of uniting the governments and people of the galaxy. Which is what we need to do of we want to stop the reapers.

He isn't trying to unite the galaxy he is trying to put Humans at the top.

That's my point. In ME3 we need to unite the galaxy to defeat the reapers, something that the elusive man would be crap at. Even if you try your best a lot of people will consider you part of an illegal terrorist organization, which isn't the type of thing that's helpful in such a situation.

I'm not disagreeing.

Also its Illusive,I don't know if your putting it wrong on purpose or not,just putting it out there.

[Sisterofshane]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

A rather simplistic way to put it, but it was a reason why I destroyed the base.
Sooner or later, your allies would find out that you gave TIM the means of which to become so technologically advanced that he could, in essence, out-do every other race within the galaxy.

This is apparently worse than the Reapers wiping out all life in the galaxy. If the rest of the species are as assbackwards as you then they don't deserve to live.

Why would the other species be inclined to fight for us, if they fear that we will turn around and then anhiliate them as well? (or enslave them, or exile them, all things that could happen if humans are made the dominant species of the galaxy).  Yes, we can safely assume that TIM will first use the base against the Reaper Invasion, but at the point of victory, it would only be safe for the other races to assume that then Cerberus will come after them (they are viewed as terrorists to the rest of the galaxy).  They are going to want to cut Cerberus off at the pass.  A strong Cerberus is simply not a unifying force in the galaxy.  End of story.

So, like I said in the post above, unless we find a MCGUFFIN on the CB, which would be in very poor taste on the writers of ME, we cannot win without securing our alliances and building a GALACTIC FLEET, which I suspect happens to be the very plot of ME3.

[Davie McG]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Davie McG wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Davie McG wrote...

The elusive man condoned the torture of many, the use of illegal and possibly harmful drugs on a child. He's a control freak and a liar, not to mention everyone in the galaxy considers him and his organization to be racist terrorists.

This to me doesn't sound like the guy to be in charge of uniting the governments and people of the galaxy. Which is what we need to do of we want to stop the reapers.

He isn't trying to unite the galaxy he is trying to put Humans at the top.

Just clarifying, and I know it's this stupid auto spell thing on my phone.

Anyway telling that patronizing arse of a man to go **** himself was one of the best moment's of mass effect 2.

That's my point. In ME3 we need to unite the galaxy to defeat the reapers, something that the elusive man would be crap at. Even if you try your best a lot of people will consider you part of an illegal terrorist organization, which isn't the type of thing that's helpful in such a situation.

I'm not disagreeing.

Also its Illusive,I don't know if your putting it wrong on purpose or not,just putting it out there.

Ok it just cleared the text from my post.

What I said was:

Just clarifying, and I know its this stupid auto correct on my phone.

Anyway telling that patronizing arse of a man to go **** himself was one of the best moment's of mass effect 2.

Modifié par Davie McG, 15 août 2011 - 06:32 .

[SkittlesKat96]

^ (to the discussion above)

If Shepard helps Cerberus and agrees with them and saved the base then yes, they could potentially take over the galaxy and be dominant but like Saphra said that isn't necessarily a bad thing...the Council is silly and all the species in the galaxy are a little bit cold to each other in one way or another (A lot of Turians aren't willing to give up their lives for humans, a lot of the galaxy hates the Geth and Quarians, the Krogan are hated now and hate everyone else, no body would trust the Rachni, some people see humans as being dangerous and not worth saving etc.)

The reason getting an army to take back Earth in ME 3 will be so hard is cause the Council and other species will probably be too busy squabbling and not realizing that the more they squabble and not take Earth the harder it will be to stop the Reapers and how they are just dooming themselves. I'm sure the Turians will be hard to convince to even send one Dreadnought to help Earth let alone dozens, like Saphra said Cerberus seem to be one of few people that realize the Reaper threat as you can see at the start of Mass Effect 2.

I don't think/know if there will be a better choice or a possible choice of choosing to unite the Galaxy with each other or by Cerberus but still, its a choice driven game series so its all kind of worth thinking about.

EDIT: Just to clarify yes I do know that either way you'll need to get help from all the alien species but still, this is more about keeping the base and Cerberus being a possible ally/benefactor/whatever you call it

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 15 août 2011 - 06:47 .

[Sisterofshane]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Why would the other species be inclined to fight for us,

None of them, ever, would want to fight for us. I expect them to fight for themselves. No species has ever fought for another and no species ever will.

This isn't about our survival, it is about THEIR'S!

Are they so afraid of humanity gaining more power that they'd rather RISK EXTINCTION?

Like I said, Cerberus are the only sensible people in the galaxy. They brought Shepard back and gave Shepard as much autonomy as possible to complete his mission. This even being the case if Shepard was actively trying to undermine Cerberus the whole time. In Retribution TIM even risked Cerberus' very survival just to ensure that the Reaper-Grayson did not escape into the galaxy.

Nobody else in the galaxy has fought as hard to save it or been as willing to make overtures and try to win friends as Cerberus.

Yes, but perhaps they take the chance of survival WITHOUT helping humanity.  The Reapers are at Earth in ME3 -- if they other races decided to hedge their bets on survival without our help, and maybe even use the Reapers advancement on us as extra time, a chance to bolster their own security for the incoming onslaught.  Sacrificing humanity seems a bit easier when we might become the next threat after the Reapers.  Then, Game over for us.  I don't want to make that decision easier for them when the Reapers are already here -- I want them to trust me enough to come fight by my side and not abandon me.  I don't want them to doubt humanity for even one millisecond.

Strength for cerberus = Doubt seeded amongst the other races.  Doubt can be very bad when trying to form a galactic front.

[ddv.rsa]

Sisterofshane wrote...

So, like I said in the post above, unless we find a MCGUFFIN on the CB, which would be in very poor taste on the writers of ME, we cannot win without securing our alliances and building a GALACTIC FLEET, which I suspect happens to be the very plot of ME3.

Well, one Reaper and some Geth tore up the Citadel fleet like it was nothing (including the strongest dreadnought in the galaxy). If Shepard hadn't stunned Sovereign's "mind" and disabled its shields, the same would have happened to the Alliance fleet. Going by that battle, you could count on one hand the number of Reapers it would take to defeat a combined galactic fleet.

Logically there has to be more to ME3 than gathering allies. Shepard needs to find a weapon that can damage Reaper ships relatively easily, and can be mass produced quickly. Only then is a fleet battle even remotely feasible.

Modifié par ddv.rsa, 15 août 2011 - 06:59 .

[Inverness Moon]

Davie McG wrote...

The elusive man condoned the torture of many, the use of illegal and possibly harmful drugs on a child. He's a control freak and a liar, not to mention everyone in the galaxy considers him and his organization to be racist terrorists.

This to me doesn't sound like the guy to be in charge of uniting the governments and people of the galaxy. Which is what we need to do of we want to stop the reapers.

Don't be silly. Uniting the galaxy is exactly why he brought Shepard back.

[Sisterofshane]

ddv.rsa wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

So, like I said in the post above, unless we find a MCGUFFIN on the CB, which would be in very poor taste on the writers of ME, we cannot win without securing our alliances and building a GALACTIC FLEET, which I suspect happens to be the very plot of ME3.

Well, one Reaper and some Geth tore up the Citadel fleet like it was nothing (including the strongest dreadnought in the galaxy). If Shepard hadn't stunned Sovereign's "mind" and disabled its shields, the same would have happened to the Alliance fleet. Going by that battle, you could count on one hand the number of Reapers it would take to defeat a combined galactic fleet.

Logically there has to be more to ME3 than gathering allies. Shepard needs to find a weapon that can damage Reaper ships relatively easily, and can be mass produced quickly. Only then is a fleet battle even remotely feasible.

yes there has to be, but I think that in all likelihood, whatever we find on the CB will not be enough in and of itself to defeat the Reaper Fleet.  It is infintely more likely, however, to drive our allies to abandon us.  My Shep took her chances in finding the weapon/strategy elsewhere, one that wasn't as likely to make it so that humans were standing alone when the Reapers finally face down Earth.

[Ieldra]

Sisterofshane wrote...
yes there has to be, but I think that in all likelihood, whatever we find on the CB will not be enough in and of itself to defeat the Reaper Fleet.  It is infintely more likely, however, to drive our allies to abandon us.  My Shep took her chances in finding the weapon/strategy elsewhere, one that wasn't as likely to make it so that humans were standing alone when the Reapers finally face down Earth.

What makes you think that keeping the Collector base will drive our allies away? And...which allies, btw? At the moment of the decision no one but Cerberus and a few individuals like Hackett believe Shepard about the Reapers.
Also, which prospect do you have for another place/way to find some critical knowledge about/against the Reapers? You have absolutely none. Yet you throw the only known source of such knowledge away.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 15 août 2011 - 07:46 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

"Perhaps it is better to be irresponsible and right, than to be responsible and wrong. " -Winston Churchill

[Sisterofshane]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...
yes there has to be, but I think that in all likelihood, whatever we find on the CB will not be enough in and of itself to defeat the Reaper Fleet.  It is infintely more likely, however, to drive our allies to abandon us.  My Shep took her chances in finding the weapon/strategy elsewhere, one that wasn't as likely to make it so that humans were standing alone when the Reapers finally face down Earth.

What makes you think that keeping the Collector base will drive our allies away? And...which allies, btw? At the moment of the decision no one but Cerberus and a few individuals like Hackett believe Shepard about the Reapers.
Also, which prospect do you have for another place/way to find some critical knowledge about/against the Reapers? You have absolutely none. Yet you throw the only known source of such knowledge away.

Shep: Umm, Hi Quarians.  The Reapers are on Earth now... we could really use your help.

Quarians:  Umm, don't you work for Cerberus now?

Shep:  Yep, they're studying the home base of the collectors right now to try to find us some great super weapon to win us the war, but I still need a galactic fleet...Um, Quarians?

This line has been disconnected...

^Not what would really happen, as I think Shep would have a little more tact when approaching the situation.  But still, it's a huge IF to gamble on.

We MIGHT get information at the cost of formidable allies.  That's just what happens in war.  It gives the other species an opportunity to deem us expendable in the fight against the Reapers.  They are simply not going to come and defend Earth if there is a chance (and everyone I think agrees that it's at least a reasonable chance), that humanity guided by Cerberus will rise up in it's stead and subjugate the other races of the galaxy.

Kind of like how in WWII, we worked with soviet russia, to a point, but at the minute it looked like they might gain a tactical advantage, we cut them off.  A powerful Russia (one more powerful then the US), was just not an option, and the same for them.

If the roles were reversed, I wonder how many people here would give the CB to the Turians, or the Volus, or the Batarians, based upon the mere fact that it might increase our chance of survival in the upcoming Reaper Invasion.

And like I said before, I know that it will provide something.  But I am banking on the fact that I am going to need Galactic Cooperation with Humanity MORE then I will need any kind of information that we Find on the CB, assuming that there was no "magic off switch" contained there, which we all know was still very highly unlikely.

[SandTrout]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...
yes there has to be, but I think that in all likelihood, whatever we find on the CB will not be enough in and of itself to defeat the Reaper Fleet.  It is infintely more likely, however, to drive our allies to abandon us.  My Shep took her chances in finding the weapon/strategy elsewhere, one that wasn't as likely to make it so that humans were standing alone when the Reapers finally face down Earth.

What makes you think that keeping the Collector base will drive our allies away? And...which allies, btw? At the moment of the decision no one but Cerberus and a few individuals like Hackett believe Shepard about the Reapers.
Also, which prospect do you have for another place/way to find some critical knowledge about/against the Reapers? You have absolutely none. Yet you throw the only known source of such knowledge away.

Sis has a point, I think, that association with Cerberus, if made known, is highly likely to make other species more reluctant to aide Shepard, even in the face of the Reapers. They may like their chances against the Reapers after Shepard tries, and fails at whatever, than against an empowered Humanity.

I'm not disagreeing with the point that they would need to be irrational, ignorant, and/or stupid to come to this conclustion, but we are dealing with the council here....

[Sisterofshane]

SandTrout wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...
yes there has to be, but I think that in all likelihood, whatever we find on the CB will not be enough in and of itself to defeat the Reaper Fleet.  It is infintely more likely, however, to drive our allies to abandon us.  My Shep took her chances in finding the weapon/strategy elsewhere, one that wasn't as likely to make it so that humans were standing alone when the Reapers finally face down Earth.

What makes you think that keeping the Collector base will drive our allies away? And...which allies, btw? At the moment of the decision no one but Cerberus and a few individuals like Hackett believe Shepard about the Reapers.
Also, which prospect do you have for another place/way to find some critical knowledge about/against the Reapers? You have absolutely none. Yet you throw the only known source of such knowledge away.

Sis has a point, I think, that association with Cerberus, if made known, is highly likely to make other species more reluctant to aide Shepard, even in the face of the Reapers. They may like their chances against the Reapers after Shepard tries, and fails at whatever, than against an empowered Humanity.

I'm not disagreeing with the point that they would need to be irrational, ignorant, and/or stupid to come to this conclustion, but we are dealing with the council here....

I think that's irrational to assume that the other council races are ignoring the "reaper" problem.  The council, on a face value, says that there is no evidence, but if the Alliance has been working (secretly) against the Reaper Problem, you can bet that the Salarians already know more then we do (can anybody say STG?), and it is highly likely that the Turians and Asari are working just as hard.

So, if they do know that we've given Cerberus highly advanced tech, and they have been researching the threat on their own, then why should they think they should fall in step with humanity?  For all we know, one of the other races has already gained an upper hand on the reapers.  They might use it as an opportunity to "rid" themselves of a future problem. 

What I'm saying people, is that we need MORE reasons for the Council species to place faith in us and protect us(at least help by standing with us), not LESS.  Despite what happens at the end of ME (saving the DA or letting it be destroyed), we know that the other races just don't trust us quite as thoroughly as they trust each other.

[Sebby]

Cerberus doesn't even come off as being worse than the Blue Suns,Blood Pack or Eclipse on a galactic scale. Hell, ME1 Cerberus is a mickey mouse outfit compared to the description we get of those three groups in ME2.