3618 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

ddv.rsa wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

And I'm willing to venture to suggest that the army they've mustered overnight is mainly composed of the Alliance reservists, indoctrinated - in the actual sense of the word - by the Terra Firma party activists.

Why would Terra Firma supporters fight to make humanity the chief toadies of the Reapers? Terra Firma stands for humanity standing firm against alien influence, not becoming servants to them.

Because TIM says so. He made sure Saracino was in charge for a reason.

And, BTW, the Reapers aren't aliens. They are machinery.

[SandTrout]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

And, BTW, the Reapers aren't aliens. They are machinery.

Alien machinery.

Terra Firma is against undue alien influence in human culture. Getting Reaperfied seems pretty antithetical to that goal.

[Ieldra]

Regarging possible indoctrination:

If you have understood the technology, it should be possible to use it for your own ends. I suspect that in ME3, Cerberus troops might be indoctrinated but not fighting for the Reapers.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 15 août 2011 - 10:45 .

[Zulu_DFA]

SandTrout wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

And, BTW, the Reapers aren't aliens. They are machinery.

Alien machinery.
Terra Firma is against undue alien influence in human culture. Getting Reaperfied seems pretty antithetical to that goal.

I'm sure, "getting reaperified" is not what TIM wants either. He wouldn't be able to smoke as a Reaper. However, a little bit of trans-humanism can't be of much harm, if extinction is the alternative.

[SandTrout]

I'm sure, "getting reaperified" is not what TIM wants either. He wouldn't be able to smoke as a Reaper. However, a little bit of trans-humanism can't be of much harm, if extinction is the alternative.

I agree, but you, I, and TIM are rational people. Any mob that TF can whip up will not likely be, and would probably consider extinction preferable to becoming a Reaper. That could be a useful form of zealotry for fighting the Reapers due to the the high probability of high-casualty scenarios being necessary to defeat them.

The masses wont understand even as much as we do, with what we know being only marginally better than nothing, and would only see giant invading alien machines that are killing everyone. People will fight the Reapers out of fear and confusion, not join with them.

I would be more worried about a sgt. Kyle figure creating a cult that starts gathering people up to give to the Reapers. Hm... Maybe paragons will regret just having Kyle arrested...

[Zulu_DFA]

SandTrout wrote...

I'm sure, "getting reaperified" is not what TIM wants either. He wouldn't be able to smoke as a Reaper. However, a little bit of trans-humanism can't be of much harm, if extinction is the alternative.

I agree, but you, I, and TIM are rational people. Any mob that TF can whip up will not likely be, and would probably consider extinction preferable to becoming a Reaper. That could be a useful form of zealotry for fighting the Reapers due to the the high probability of high-casualty scenarios being necessary to defeat them.

The masses wont understand even as much as we do, with what we know being only marginally better than nothing, and would only see giant invading alien machines that are killing everyone. People will fight the Reapers out of fear and confusion, not join with them.

I would be more worried about a sgt. Kyle figure creating a cult that starts gathering people up to give to the Reapers. Hm... Maybe paragons will regret just having Kyle arrested...

Yeah, but I'm not talking about mobs. I'm talking about Alliance reservists / former servicemen, who understand what discipline is due their military training and to TF's political education. (Discipline is when you carry out orders from your superiors even if you do not understand them.) Besides, TIM may have condemned some of his loyalists to the Reaper indoctrination, as a part of his Xanatos gambit.

[ddv.rsa]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

I'm sure, "getting reaperified" is not what TIM wants either. He wouldn't be able to smoke as a Reaper. However, a little bit of trans-humanism can't be of much harm, if extinction is the alternative.

Trans-humanism? If TIM seriously thinks he can bargain and compromise with the Reapers, he is a fool. What will he do when the Reapers later betray him? It will happen.

I thought he had the right idea in ME2, but now I'm dissappointed. He's become the worst traitor in human history. Unless he has some elaborate plan to double cross the Reapers, I've lost all respect for him.

Modifié par ddv.rsa, 15 août 2011 - 11:53 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Submitting to the Reapers is better than being wiped out.

It's not better, because it's the same thing.

ddv.rsa wrote...

If TIM seriously thinks he can bargain and compromise with the Reapers, he is a fool.

He can't and he doesn't and he isn't.

ddv.rsa wrote...

Unless he has some elaborate plan to double cross the Reapers.

Don't worry, he will.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 15 août 2011 - 12:05 .

[Fixers0]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Submitting to the Reapers is better than being wiped out.

Logic ?

Why would one surrender to the force he's fighting?

[SandTrout]

Fixers0 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Submitting to the Reapers is better than being wiped out.

Logic ?

Why would one surrender to the force he's fighting?

I appreciate the effort, Fixers0, but Saphra is more than enough troll for this thread, your professional troller services are not required.

[Darkelefantos1]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Submitting to the Reapers is better than being wiped out.

It's not better, because it's the same thing.

This. So much this. They'll turn 5% of humanity into goo, use 10% as husk slaves and eradicate the rest. If they're nice, that is, as there are other races that can be used as husks. 

Modifié par Darkelefantos1, 15 août 2011 - 12:16 .

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Submitting to the Reapers is better than being wiped out.

Just FYI.

Submitting to the Reapers = Being wiped out.

[Fixers0]

SandTrout wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Submitting to the Reapers is better than being wiped out.

Logic ?

Why would one surrender to the force he's fighting?

I appreciate the effort, Fixers0, but Saphra is more than enough troll for this thread, your professional troller services are not required.

I personally like providing this community with unbiased, logical and consistant information. 

And you peole should really learn to appreciate free services, there are people who charge money for their advice.

Modifié par Fixers0, 15 août 2011 - 12:25 .

[Darkelefantos1]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Submitting to the Reapers is better than being wiped out.

Just FYI.

Submitting to the Reapers = Being wiped out.

No, actually it isn't the same. Our collective conscious will live on. Our memory.

This is not the case if we just die.

Ah I see. Clearly, you know that because...You ARE a Reaper...dun dun dun...Also explains your signature...

You see, not all humans will be reaperised equally, unless they build like 5 Human-Reapers. Besides, we aren't the only race in the galaxy, the Reapers also need slaves and it does seem like they are ready to just kill large parts of the human populace. 
I heard they also dismiss any surrenders and never accept job-applications.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

No, actually it isn't the same. Our collective conscious will live on. Our memory.

This is not the case if we just die.

Oh. You mean like the thousands of other civilizations the Reapers harvested, which we know absolutely nothing about, since the Reapers are working to make sure that our memory doesn'tlive on?

And last time I checked, you need to be alive to achieve a certain level of a conscious. Being melted down into a pool of genetic goo is hardly living.

That's like saying that people who have fallen into volcanoes can have a active consciousness.

[Fixers0]

Saphra Deden wrote...

It's inevitable. It can't be stopped or avoided.

Yes it can be, we can stop the Cycle

How?

By deliberatly destroying the entire galaxy by ourselfs, so that the Reapers have nothing to harverest and so that no other organic life will ever evolve along the Reaper's path again.

Modifié par Fixers0, 15 août 2011 - 12:46 .

[Darkelefantos1]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Darkelefantos1 wrote...

You see, not all humans will be reaperised equally,

So what? Life isn't fair. Grow a pair.

You're a really nice person, you say things like that at the first best chance you get. I commend you for your constant and irrational rudeness, Reaper. 

Also, what kind of pair? Brains, tentacles, testicles? 

[Xilizhra]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...


Oh. You mean like the thousands of other civilizations the Reapers harvested, which we know absolutely nothing about, since the Reapers are working to make sure that our memory doesn'tlive on?

Our memory lives on for us. This is not a popularity contest, you nit-wit.

Who cares if anyone else knows humanity? They don't matter. They never did.

Humanity can be much more than these crude, grotesque organic forms you are used to. However to understand this you'd need to grow up and expand your mind. Stop living in fear of change and try a new idea.

It's inevitable. It can't be stopped or avoided.

Except that it will be both.

[SalsaDMA]

SandTrout wrote...

Concerning the game - you never once had to act on a "gut feeling" during your tour? You always had the time to evalutate every possible outcome and come to the most logical of conclusions?

We were trained specifically not to trust 'gut feeling'. I was Navy, so I didn't see any ground warfare, but an essential part of all military training is called Operational Risk Management. ORM can be done formally through a meeting, or on the fly. The basic principals is you rationally evaluate the most severe risk that can reasonably occur and place that opposite to the desired benefit of whatever task you are doing.

For situations that we could predict were likely to happen (such as torpedo evasion), we did the ORM in advance and trained with prepared reactions that we calculated were most likely to keep us alive long enough to return fire. If one person acted based on emotion, then the entire thing fell apart and we 'died'.

Because some ORM must take place in a time-critical environment, not all of it is perfect. There are limitations to what you can consider in a situation like the CB, but emotions are something that should be set aside for the moment so that the decision most likely to be best, based on admittedly limited data, can be made.

Somewhat offtopic, but I just wanted to point out research into processes of the brain indicate that judgements done purely by using the rationale part of the brain utilizes a smaller part of the brains neurons than judgements done by using nonrationale (ie. gut instinct). When making judgements you are always in the end making use of the part of your brain that draws on emotions rather than pure logic, and if you could actually train your 'gut-instinct' to become better at arriving to the decisions you would deem favourable, that would be far more preferrable as it utilizes a bigger part of your brain and can make quicker and more complex decisions. I asume this is also what people training to enter a Zen-state when doing things are trying to acomplish.

So trying to aim for a purely logic route seems selfdefeating to me, and aiming towards the lesser ability to make the right judgements instead of the greater ability.

[Xilizhra]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Except that it will be both.

Nope, I'm afraid it can't. I wish I was wrong, but millions of years of Reaper success are against us. You will be better off if you try and find an upside to this instead of fighting against it pointlessly.

You can't beat the Reapers. You can't save the non-humans, not this generation, not any future generations. Only humanity can survive it can do that by submitting to the Reapers. It will be molded, changed, but it will endure.

Millions of years of Reaper success by blitzing the Citadel and destroying all interstellar infrastructure by taking down the mass relays. They've never taken on the galaxy in a straight-up fight before. I doubt they're terribly flexible, and they do seem to be prey to sapient emotional foibles, given Sovereign's impatience, anger, and drive to attack Shepard personally by possessing Saren.

And most importantly, you're forgetting that this is a game that will most likely provide victory for us.