77 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

Just to keep in mind -- change of the engine would generally mean either rebuilding the assets used by the game from scratch, or converting them from the previous engine/format. Both options take lot of time and effort -- note that's what they had to do going from DAO to DA2, and how it resulted in half of the creatures and bulk of the assets missing.

So before you request it, ask yourself if you really want another game which you will spend fighting nothing but hurlocks, shades and pride demons. And spiders, of course.

[csfteeeer]

i think the same.

It's obvious that the engine they're using has several limitations, for example, why can't i just use a wait button?
why do i have to go to the ending of the map to change the time?

i also want them to use the RED Engine:wub:or the Frostbite 2:O.

but i wont hype myself for the possibility of being disappointed.

anyway, there was already a thread discussing this EXACT same thing, and it's Right Here

Modifié par csfteeeer, 30 juillet 2011 - 07:45 .

[King Cousland]

RedEngine FTW! In total agreement that DA needs to move away from graphics which were outdated in Origins, but still better than the cartoonish ones in DAII.

[Spooky81]

Even if BioWare selected a high end engine, what they can do with it and how far they can go will be strained by the 360's hardware limitations. There's so much that can be done to make the game's textures and environments visually splendid, yet the demand for quick loading times and creating a platform that's "equal" on PC, XBox, and PS3 pretty much buries the idea of a Dragon Age RPG that's graphically equal to Crysis or TW.

[Savber100]

Spooky81 wrote...

Even if BioWare selected a high end engine, what they can do with it and how far they can go will be strained by the 360's hardware limitations. There's so much that can be done to make the game's textures and environments visually splendid, yet the demand for quick loading times and creating a platform that's "equal" on PC, XBox, and PS3 pretty much buries the idea of a Dragon Age RPG that's graphically equal to Crysis or TW.

The Frostbyte Engine is currently doing wonders as seen in both the consoles and PC version of Battlefield 3. Rockstar has the RAGE engine where they made an OPEN WORLD game with it. Avalanche Studios has the Avanlache engine 2.0 which rendered breath-taking graphics in the gigantic open-world of Just Cause 2 with both consoles and PC running it smoothly.

Seriously, it might take a while but it's certainly not impossible.  

I think Bioware needs to step up its game again as most major studios have always made a great engine that lasted for years. 

Valve - Source engine

Rockstar - RAGE engine

CD Projekt RED - RED engine


Bioware was once in the forefront of making engines for RPG games like the Infinity engine (Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment), Aurora engine (Neverwinter Nights, The Witcher), and the Odyssey engine (Knights of the Old Republic), 

Now, Bioware is just taking Unreal for ME while giving DA the finger by remaining to work with the same engine that they created when DA:O was first announced. Come on guys... the reaction from fans have been blunt. DA2's cartoony graphics is just hiding the limitations of this engine. 

Honestly, I can wait for 3-4 years if the DA team can create a game that can match the RED engine, 

Modifié par Savber100, 30 juillet 2011 - 10:27 .

[Bryy_Miller]

bleetman wrote...

Aren't the latter two of those first person shooter engines? I'm not entirely sure how well those would translate into a party based rpg.

(I don't know squat about how engines actually work, of course)

You can make any engine do anything you want it to, really. That's why we have racing games in UE3. 

I'm also going to come right out and say it: I don't think the DA series should ever look "realistic" like Crysis or Witcher.

[Merci357]

I always wondered why such a large publisher like EA doesn't use an own inhouse engine for the majority of their games. Why not take a great and modern engine like Frostbyte 2, develop the needed tools for this engine, so that it works for many different genres, and work with it. That way not only DICE could use it, but the many different EA studios like BioWare, Visceral, Victory Games, etc. as well.

At least in my books this is the better way instead of using mediocre selfmade engines (like in DA2) or paying license fees for the unreal engine (like the ME series).

Maybe once we see the next gen consoles, who knows.

[csfteeeer]

Dubya75 wrote...

I don't think there is anything wrong with the current engine. It works very well. It plays well and it looks good.
People need to understand that Dragon Age will never look like Assassins Creed or The Witcher. It's not meant to.
Personally I think Dragon Age 2 looks stunning and it has it's own style and charm to go along with it.
Like the tired old saying goes, if it aint broke, don't fix it! And the Dragon Age engine is definitely not broken.

i really don't know how can you call "Stunning"

seriously.
it is completely bland and ugly.
it has limitations, it's outdated, so yeah, it needs a fix.

And what the Hell do you mean by "It's not Meant to"?

Modifié par csfteeeer, 31 juillet 2011 - 03:34 .

[Nerdage]

csfteeeer wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

I don't think there is anything wrong with the current engine. It works very well. It plays well and it looks good.
People need to understand that Dragon Age will never look like Assassins Creed or The Witcher. It's not meant to.
Personally I think Dragon Age 2 looks stunning and it has it's own style and charm to go along with it.
Like the tired old saying goes, if it aint broke, don't fix it! And the Dragon Age engine is definitely not broken.

i really don't know how can you call "Stunning"

seriously.
i think it's completely bland and ugly.
it has limitations, it's outdated, so yeah, it needs a fix.

That bit.

[Savber100]

nerdage wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

I don't think there is anything wrong with the current engine. It works very well. It plays well and it looks good.
People need to understand that Dragon Age will never look like Assassins Creed or The Witcher. It's not meant to.
Personally I think Dragon Age 2 looks stunning and it has it's own style and charm to go along with it.
Like the tired old saying goes, if it aint broke, don't fix it! And the Dragon Age engine is definitely not broken.

i really don't know how can you call "Stunning"

seriously.
It is completely bland and ugly.
it has limitations, it's outdated, so yeah, it needs a fix.

That bit.

There.
I helped him fix it.

Honestly, graphics is kinda the thing that isn't really subjective. For example, The Witcher 2 looks better than DA2 PERIOD. However, you can argue about aethestics of both games which can be subjective. If you want to go cartoony, go fully forward with it like in Team Fortress 2. If you want realistic graphics, go fully forward with it by giving us rich textures etc like The Witcher 2. But trying to be both will only alienate both sides and no one likes it.

Dragon Age 2 is NOT a pretty game. It's ok. It's mediocre. Bioware can do a LOT better with what they have by bringing back the original vision of DA as a dark, gritty, mature fantasy akin to Game of Thrones and making a better engine.

You promised "hot graphics" for DA, Mr. Laidlaw. I'm still holding you to it. <_<

Modifié par Savber100, 31 juillet 2011 - 03:34 .

[Nerdage]

How 'pretty' something looks is entirely subjective. You can measure definition or resolution, but you can't categorically say something is ugly, and you certainly can't quantify "graphics" since it's such a loosely defined term it could describe pretty much anything visual about a game.

[Maverick827]

Savber100 wrote...

Valve - Source engine

Rockstar - RAGE engine

CD Projekt RED - RED engine

One of these things is not like the others.

[csfteeeer]

Savber100 wrote...

nerdage wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

I don't think there is anything wrong with the current engine. It works very well. It plays well and it looks good.
People need to understand that Dragon Age will never look like Assassins Creed or The Witcher. It's not meant to.
Personally I think Dragon Age 2 looks stunning and it has it's own style and charm to go along with it.
Like the tired old saying goes, if it aint broke, don't fix it! And the Dragon Age engine is definitely not broken.

i really don't know how can you call "Stunning"

seriously.
It is completely bland and ugly.
it has limitations, it's outdated, so yeah, it needs a fix.

That bit.

There.
I helped him fix it.

Honestly, graphics is kinda the thing that isn't really subjective. For example, The Witcher 2 looks better than DA2 PERIOD. However, you can argue about aethestics of both games which can be subjective. If you want to go cartoony, go fully forward with it like in Team Fortress 2. If you want realistic graphics, go fully forward with it by giving us rich textures etc like The Witcher 2. But trying to be both will only alienate both sides and no one likes it.

Dragon Age 2 is NOT a pretty game. It's ok. It's mediocre. Bioware can do a LOT better with what they have by bringing back the original vision of DA as a dark, gritty, mature fantasy akin to Game of Thrones and making a better engine.

You promised "hot graphics" for DA, Mr. Laidlaw. I'm still holding you to it. <_<

that was Greg Zeschuk

Modifié par csfteeeer, 31 juillet 2011 - 06:31 .

[csfteeeer]

nerdage wrote...

How 'pretty' something looks is entirely subjective. You can measure definition or resolution, but you can't categorically say something is ugly, and you certainly can't quantify "graphics" since it's such a loosely defined term it could describe pretty much anything visual about a game.

So you're saying is subjective that TW2 looks Better than DA2?

Modifié par csfteeeer, 31 juillet 2011 - 06:40 .

[Savber100]

nerdage wrote...

How 'pretty' something looks is entirely subjective. You can measure definition or resolution, but you can't categorically say something is ugly, and you certainly can't quantify "graphics" since it's such a loosely defined term it could describe pretty much anything visual about a game.

Ok let me clarify what I'm trying to say: 

Graphics are objective. Aesthestics are subjective. 

When I compare Team Fortress 2 to Battlefield 3, it's obvious that BF3 has superior graphics from the details to the shadows to the lighting to the textures. Battlefield 3 simply has a higher graphical fidelity or detail compared to TF2.

However, graphics alone don't define how good a game looks. It's aesthestics. 

Team Fortress 2 has the superior visual aesthestics. The cartoony graphics are smooth and the style is awesome. The tone is consistent and the palette is colorful. So while it doesn't have the GRAPHICAL strength of games like BF3, TF2's aesthestics gives it more than an edge to remain looking great. Of course, aesthetics are subjective. Some people would love the cell-shaded graphics while others don't. 

Dragon Age 2's graphics are simply lacking in comparison to recent RPGs like Skyrim and Witcher 2. The graphical fidelity of DA2 is subpar compared The Witcher 2 where the textures are infinitely more richer. Just compare the screenshots of DA2 and TW2 and note the graphical difference. 

DA2's visual aesthestics are interesting and colorful enough to make up for the weak graphics but it shows a limitation to the current engine when I believe that many DA fans will rather have a beautiful world to explore and having this: 

 

than the best that DA2 has to offer: 

Maverick827 wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

Valve - Source engine

Rockstar - RAGE engine

CD Projekt RED - RED engine

One of these things is not like the others.

You miss my point. Most major devs have created a new engine for each new generation. Bioware for this past generation has mostly used the Unreal Engine for ME and the Ecplise Engine which was created and improved on from the PREVIOUS console generation. Of course, Bioware has made some great improvements but I just feel that Bioware should start creating a suitable engine that will rival their current competitors. Either that or persuade EA to give them the Crytek or Frostbyte Engines. :innocent:

It's VERY unlikely though... 

Modifié par Savber100, 31 juillet 2011 - 06:54 .

[Morroian]

Savber100 wrote...

Dragon Age 2's graphics are simply lacking in comparison to recent RPGs like Skyrim and Witcher 2. The graphical fidelity of DA2 is subpar compared The Witcher 2 where the textures are infinitely more richer. Just compare the screenshots of DA2 and TW2 and note the graphical difference. 

Of course they are, DA2 is a party based tactical game, those others are single player games, by definition it can't have graphics that are as good because more resources have to be put to managing multiple characters, given the limitations I think they did a great job, to me its better looking than all but the top of the line games like TW2.

than the best that DA2 has to offer: 

No offence but that screenshot of DA2 is not the best that could be chosen, you could prove your point without choosing a clearly non representative shot.

[Seeker Sparrow]

Savber100 wrote...

To be fair, this isn't THAT bad of a screenshot showing off a location in DA2, granted it's of a location without much significance in the story and it's 'recycled' throughout the game. But it really comes down to Bioware showing off more scenery in their games than actual graphical fidelity.

Point being I'd simply like to see more outside environments in future content that actually shows something rather than read about it in a codex page or something similar. In the future I'd love to see the DA series get a new engine or upgrade at least.

[nitefyre410]

no it does need knew engine it needs to get rid of the stupid Baldaur Gate style click a location world map and let me travel to the location to see the world around me and have quick travel function.

More would understand why Kirkwall was so brown, sparse, with no trees if they understand that the area around Kirkwall was desolate for the most part.

[Dandynermite]

Savber100 wrote...

nerdage wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

I don't think there is anything wrong with the current engine. It works very well. It plays well and it looks good.
People need to understand that Dragon Age will never look like Assassins Creed or The Witcher. It's not meant to.
Personally I think Dragon Age 2 looks stunning and it has it's own style and charm to go along with it.
Like the tired old saying goes, if it aint broke, don't fix it! And the Dragon Age engine is definitely not broken.

i really don't know how can you call "Stunning"

seriously.
It is completely bland and ugly.
it has limitations, it's outdated, so yeah, it needs a fix.

That bit.

There.
I helped him fix it.

Honestly, graphics is kinda the thing that isn't really subjective. For example, The Witcher 2 looks better than DA2 PERIOD. However, you can argue about aethestics of both games which can be subjective. If you want to go cartoony, go fully forward with it like in Team Fortress 2. If you want realistic graphics, go fully forward with it by giving us rich textures etc like The Witcher 2. But trying to be both will only alienate both sides and no one likes it.

Dragon Age 2 is NOT a pretty game. It's ok. It's mediocre. Bioware can do a LOT better with what they have by bringing back the original vision of DA as a dark, gritty, mature fantasy akin to Game of Thrones and making a better engine.

You promised "hot graphics" for DA, Mr. Laidlaw. I'm still holding you to it. <_<

If they make it like Team Fotress 2 I can assure everybody I will never buy another Bioware or EA Game again in my life

[Slithermorph]

To me, the engine is part of the Dragon Age experience that made me the fan that I am. To switch engines now would probably make the next game so vastly different that it would be "unrecognizable" to fans. Look at Devil May Cry. Originally this game was supposed to be Resident Evil 3. But Capcom realized, quite correctly, that such a vast change would alienate the fans. And so that game became Devil May Cry and resident Evil 3, as we know it, was created using the classic RE game engine. I say the current engine "belongs" to Dragon Age. Leave it as it is or give it some tweaks but don't swap it out entirely for something different.

[Chuvvy]

Dr. rotinaj wrote...

Couldn't they just make their own new engine?

Making your own engine is a massive undertaking. And I'm not sure why they're not using unreal like Mass Effect, it seems the most likely choice.

Modifié par Slidell505, 31 juillet 2011 - 02:20 .

[Nerdage]

Savber100 wrote...

*lots of stuff*

There's certainly more going on, but my original point remains; you can't say something's "bland and ugly" as a fact. I was never trying to argue that one was better than the other.

csfteeeer wrote...
So you're saying is subjective that TW2 looks Better than DA2?

Exactly. Thank you.

Modifié par nerdage, 31 juillet 2011 - 03:07 .

[MonkeyLungs]

Dubya75 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

I don't think there is anything wrong with the current engine. It works very well. It plays well and it looks good.
People need to understand that Dragon Age will never look like Assassins Creed or The Witcher. It's not meant to.
Personally I think Dragon Age 2 looks stunning and it has it's own style and charm to go along with it.
Like the tired old saying goes, if it aint broke, don't fix it! And the Dragon Age engine is definitely not broken.

 That same adage could be applied to everything about the first game, so use it with care. Or reall, better not.

Well...Origins didn't look that great. It looked bland and generic at best.
Combat really sucked.
(Both of which have been improved in DA2)
Plus some other technical constraints which I won't go into.
The engine in DA2 is vastly improved over what they had in Origins.
Sure, it can do with some tweaks here and there but suggesting a whole new engine is a bit extreme.

Origins looks way better than DA2. The combat is lightyears ahead of DA2 and the combat animations are so much more professionally done. The sound is better, the lighting is better, the environments are more varied and more detailed.

DA2 is one city and 3 caves and the city is made up of interconnected right angles so that kirkwall appears to be a city that is in fact 4 giant apartment buildings all connected by right angles.

The intro to DA2 where you fight darspawn on the moon is some of the worst level design I've ever played in video gaming.

I don't think its entirely the engine's fault ... I really think Bioware has a very hard time with 3D level design.

The animations were changed to appeal to anime ninja fighting fans (SPLOSIONS!). My two hand wurriur can ice skate across the battlefiled now and splosion people with his big sword! YAY.

[nicethugbert]

Other companies make game engines for licensing. Why can't BW? Maybe that would entail providing tools to the competition and BW does not want that?

[Ariella]

The engine's fine. It gives good performance on console and PC, it's designed to the specific needs of the game, and isn't going to cost more because of licensing fees. Plus there's all that retraining etc...

And as for CDPR's Red engine.... God no! If there is any justice in this universe, no. Mouse functionality for PC is non-existent, the keyboard functionality is lousy. Graphics are okay, but overboard for medium and low range machines, which limits the customer base. There's NO functionality for a party which means that BW would have to write it. It doesn't make sense, especially to go outside to a non-EA company.