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[jds1bio]

Savber100 wrote...

jds1bio wrote...
But this is what Naughty Dog has done with their Uncharted games.  This is what CDPRojekt RED did with The Witcher 2.  This is why Crytek did with Crysis 2.  This is what Rocksteady is doing with the next Batman game.  This is what COD continues to do by alternating dev houses every year.  All of these, including DA2, have been commercial successes.

lol.

...
Call of Duty.. wait, you did NOT just use COD as an example of a developer improving on a product.

So adding RPG elements to Call of Duty did NOT improve the product?

Savber100 wrote...

I want sources that actually prove that DA2 sold better than DA:O. If anything, it was underselling according to several sites like vgchartz.com etc.

I said they were commercal successes (with over 2 million sold).  I never said they outsold any particular game.

Savber100 wrote...

The problem is that Bioware didn't IMPROVE and POLISH the edges like CD Projekt RED or Naughty Dog.

CD Projekt RED didn't polish the edges - they completely overhauled both the engine and the gameplay.  So did Naughty Dog to maximize Cell usage.

Savber100 wrote...

They stripped away the original concept of "Baldur's Gate successor" and a "gritty, dark world akin to Game of Thrones" to something entirely different.

Some people like it, some people don't.

I can't speak for them but I don't think Bioware should feign surprise why DA2 was underwhelming for many fans compared to DA:O.

I think their public interviews have largely spun things positively, but I don't think they're feigning surprise or any other reaction to fan or critic feedback.

[Kaiser Shepard]

jds1bio wrote...

But this is what Naughty Dog has done with their Uncharted games.  This is what CDPRojekt RED did with The Witcher 2.  This is why Crytek did with Crysis 2.  This is what Rocksteady is doing with the next Batman game.  This is what COD continues to do by alternating dev houses every year.  All of these, including DA2, have been commercial successes.

Ah, glad that you brought up Call of Duty, as I'd say that series is a fine example of what should have been done with Dragon Age. Say what you will of that series, it does deliver what the fans want. How, you ask? Exactly like how I said BioWare should have continued with Dragon Age, namely using the exact same engine for years (one console generation seems to be the 'exact' timeframe). You can always expect the core gameplay to stay the same as it was last game, it's just the stuff around it that gets changed around a little to keep things fresh: the perks, the weapons, their attachments and of course a brand new campaign each time.

Why do they do that, you ask? Because it works, the fans still like it and because it's cheaper than overhauling the entire core game with each iteration. Sure, Mass Effect got overhauled because gameplay-wise, but the first game really wasn't that spectactular, nor was it anything conventional. Why the overhaul itself worked is because the team had an obvious point of reference in Gears of War, and I applaud them for realizing what needed to be changed. While Origins wasn't exactly the epitome of conventionalism either, it fitted a certain niche in the market and did so rather well. It knew what it was and what it wanted to do, and again it do so well.

Now, fast-forwarding to Dragon Age II, I can't help but agree with Savber and his quote of Mr. Knowles: Dragon Age II didn't know what it wanted to be. On one end there is Origins and the rest of its genre surpassing it in the whole Tactical RPG department, and on the other we find the likes of God of War, Ninja Gaiden and Bayo-freakin'-netta...

Awakening, for all its bugs and glitches, did exactly was expected of it, even though some foolishly expected another game the length of Origins: mostly the same that was already delivered with Origins, but on a somewhat smaller scale. You've got your standard prologue, three main quests (which are still of considerable size), a decent amount of sidequests and an endgame. To spice things up, your character is now put in a slightly different position, one in which you actually decide what happens troughout the lands. And then there was the crapload of new spells and powers. The same goes for New Vegas, which even greatly improved upon an experience I found to be rather flawed in countless of ways.

Perhaps having Obsidian develop the sequel would've indeed been the way to go, as they seem to be adept in taking what's already there and molding it into an adventure of their own...

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 01 août 2011 - 06:17 .

[csfteeeer]

jds1bio wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

I think most would argue that
staying with the old engine, as well as the old game design, would've
been the best course for the series.

I mean, from a developer's
perspective I honestly cannot fathom how BioWare went from "Alright, our
game is critically acclaimed and sold millions of copies." to "Okay,
let's overhaul the entire engine, graphical design and gameplay design."
It simply doesn't make any sense!

But this is what Naughty Dog has done with their Uncharted games.  This is what CDPRojekt RED did with The Witcher 2.  This is why Crytek did with Crysis 2.  This is what Rocksteady is doing with the next Batman game.  This is what COD continues to do by alternating dev houses every year.  All of these, including DA2, have been commercial successes.

WHAT?

CDP Projekt RED.... ok i'll give you that.

BUT, Naughty Dog in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM overhauledt the Uncharted games, they HEAVILY improved the graphics, but the gameplay is the same.

Crytek Created a New Engine in order to be able to use the consoles, and the previous one(Cryengine 2) was not compatible with Consoles, but they have stated that it is almost the same engine.
And they did not overhauled Crysis 2, they simplified it, and removed the sandbox aspect, but it was not overhauled.

Batman Arkham City is not even out yet, but it looks like Arkham Asylum, it was overhauled AT ALL, they didn't even changed engines.

LOL! COD changes dev houses every year but they always the same damn games.

None of these games (except TW2) are a good comparison to the situation with DA2.

AND, i think you're forgetting these games are SEQUELS, they will inmediately create hype if their prequels were successful, and they will sell well, Unless they receive negative or just ok reviews.

Modifié par csfteeeer, 02 août 2011 - 02:33 .