270 réponses à ce sujet

[FieryDove]

naledgeborn wrote...

ApostleinTriumph wrote...

Hawke is not a hero.

Wrong. S/He kicked out the Qunari before the Arishok could force proselytization on the city's nobility. Whether s/he wanted to or not depends on how you RP'd it.

Someone brought this up before.

If Hawke wasn't there Meredith would have done it in a few minutes anyhow. She does have an army of templars at her beck and call. 

Hawke *might* have saved a few noble lives...that is a big *might*.

[Cutlass Jack]

FieryDove wrote...

Someone brought this up before.

If Hawke wasn't there Meredith would have done it in a few minutes anyhow. She does have an army of templars at her beck and call. 

Hawke *might* have saved a few noble lives...that is a big *might*.

Not a bit 'might' at all. No noble lives would have been saved if Meredith did it. The Arishok had no respect for Meredith, so it would have played out quite differently.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 03 août 2011 - 12:27 .

[nuclearpengu1nn]

i felt attached to isabela, and fenris, once i changed their appearance to Leliana, and Sten(with horns)

[Urazz]

I felt more attached to the DA2 crew over the DA:O crew. Not to say I didn't feel attached to the DA:O crew but I felt the DA2 party interaction was bigger and allowed you to get the feeling that party members were friends or rivals.

[Dubya75]

GreyWarden36 wrote...

i felt attached to isabela, and fenris, once i changed their appearance to Leliana, and Sten(with horns)

LOL, I'd love to see that!

[Itkovian]

Aside from Alistair, I think the DA2 characters had significantly more depth and interaction than in DAO, and is one of the thigns that DA2 did better. There is definitely a lot more personnal content for each NPC than most of the DAO NPCs (where the personnal quests were minor at best, except for Alistair who had a strong focus).

Mind you, I prefer being able to engage my NPCs in conversations when I wish it (even if it is in specific locations, like their home base), but overall I feel I got a more more rewarding experience in the DA2 companions than DAO.

And I find my Hawke to be quite heroic, though clearly more one that is thrust into the role by circumstances than by seeking it out directly. The structure of the story is more about him finding himself in the middle of the boiling cauldron and being the one who (heroically) decides to put things to right, than him seeking out the boiling cauldrons of the world (if that makes sense). So in that sense there is truth to Hawke being more reactive than proactive, but I do not find it any less heroic or believable than the alternative (though no doubt future DA content will, and was always meant to be, more about Hawke's more proactive heroism, as DA2 was more like a giant "Origin" story than an epic plot arc).

Thank you.

Itkovian

[Johnsen1972]

I was attached to Bethany. I needed to mod DA2 to romance her. She was soo awesome and cute.

[nitefyre410]

Itkovian wrote...

Aside from Alistair, I think the DA2 characters had significantly more depth and interaction than in DAO, and is one of the thigns that DA2 did better. There is definitely a lot more personnal content for each NPC than most of the DAO NPCs (where the personnal quests were minor at best, except for Alistair who had a strong focus).

Mind you, I prefer being able to engage my NPCs in conversations when I wish it (even if it is in specific locations, like their home base), but overall I feel I got a more more rewarding experience in the DA2 companions than DAO.

And I find my Hawke to be quite heroic, though clearly more one that is thrust into the role by circumstances than by seeking it out directly. The structure of the story is more about him finding himself in the middle of the boiling cauldron and being the one who (heroically) decides to put things to right, than him seeking out the boiling cauldrons of the world (if that makes sense). So in that sense there is truth to Hawke being more reactive than proactive, but I do not find it any less heroic or believable than the alternative (though no doubt future DA content will, and was always meant to be, more about Hawke's more proactive heroism, as DA2 was more like a giant "Origin" story than an epic plot arc).

Thank you.

Itkovian

  


*clap, clap, clap*  Agree

Not every hero starts out seeking to be hero.. I can name a  ton of them  that started out somewhat like Hawke  they ended up being heroes anyway  because they want to set things right.

[Ianamus]

It's really a mixed bag for me, so it's hard to judge.

Morrigan was one of the best written and most memorable characters I've ever seen in a game, and her interaction with Alistair was fantastic. The two of them really made the game for me.
I liked Leliana and Sten, but not any more than I liked the characters in DA2.
As for the others... I liked them, but none of them felt quite as deep. Oghren was probably my least favourite character from both games, I felt nothing for him. And he was compulsory.

In Dragon Age 2 there were no characters that I felt nothing for. I either liked or didn't like all of them, but there were more characters I disliked. I was very happy that with Aveline we finally got a strong female warrior, and Varric and Isabela were very fun characters. Merril was brilliant, only Morrigan beat her on voice acting for me. None were as well-written or memorable as Morrigan or Alistair, though. I didn't like Anders or Fenris, as they seemed to be anti mage and pro mage incarnate.

So, yeah- It's hard to compare. I prefered the way companions were handled in DA2, with their own homes, jobs, and lives- as well as friendship and rivalry. But I was annoyed that there were no ways to outright tell someone you hated them. Rivalry was 'disagree with but respect you' but there was no option for genuinely hating someone and killing/forcing them to leave.

I also prefered the conversations in Origins. There were so many questions that I wanted to ask Merril/Aveline/Varric/Isabela but was never able to because I simply wasn't given the option. I feel that the dialogue system was too limiting. I like voiced protagonists, but if they have to mean less options and dialogue choices overall then please go back to silent.

Modifié par EJ107, 03 août 2011 - 03:12 .

[ApostleinTriumph]

[quote]
The franchise is called Dragon Age. It's about events within the Dragon Age in Thedas. Thedas involves a lot more than simply darkspawn. Consider the depth of history in Thedas, and there have only been five blights in that entire history. A sequel with a primary focus on darkspawn would cheat players of experiencing the full depth of the setting. [/quote]

What is there so hard to understand? When I'm playing a sequel, I want to see things that made the last game epic again. It doesn't have to be entirely about killing darkspawn, fighting archdemon, saving world from blight, but it could at least touch more on Grey Warden lore or Darkspawn lore. It is NOT fun to be tucked into a single city doing boring tasks. If you have played Legacy, you should be able to understand what I'm talking about. Was it ONLY about darkspawn? No, we learned some info about Hawke family aswell. So it doesn't have to be entirely about darkspawn, but for me, they need to be there.  You only face darkspawn during the expedition, and even then, they are no more interesting than the bandits you kill off in the Hightown after night.

[quote]
Again, it's not called Darkspawn Age. Focusing only on the darkspawn would make the game feel flat and uninteresting, and present a fairly bland and one-dimensional setting. If DA2 had focussed entirely on darkspawn, it would have felt like a dull repeat of DA:O. [/quote]

The main story could touch more on it, have more quests about Grey Warden/Darkspawn involvement, and thus game would be more fun. Instead, we are stuck to a single city whole game doing what some people ask us to do. How so exciting.

[/quote]
[quote] Your posts seem to suggest that you only care about fighting darkspawn and nothing else. I want more to my stories than "oh no, a horde of evil creatures want to destroy the world". The intrigue of DA:O wasn't generated by the darkspawn threat. That was the catalyst and the driver of the plot, but it lacked the punch of the individual stories that drove its plot.

A poisoned Arl and a son possessed by a demon, an ancient curse fuelling a conflict between a Dalish tribe and interlopers, internal conflict between mage groups, and a dwarf obsessed with a power that was buried for a reason. These were the drivers behind the core stories of interest that made people interested in the game.

The darkspawn were merely the "big bad evil" threat that was needed to fulfill the common need of players to have some big threat that they can keep in mind as something to defeat. It wasn't until you had the conflict of Awakening that they actually became an interesting entity in their own right.

DA2's core problem with the writing is that the player can often feel like they are dragged along for the ride rather than actively pushing the events of the story forth. Hawke is a key player in a plot that evolves around him/her rather than being the protagonist who makes the plot happen. This means that the player doesn't really get a sense of agency in making decisions, because many of the key events occur outside of their control, and they merely are there to "clean up the mess".

The effect of DA2's story on the world of Thedas is far greater than DAO's, with Morrigan's disappearance and child being the only thing with the potential to carry anywhere near as much weight.

The writers forced a particular outcome for the development of the overall story arc of the Dragon Age franchise. It seems obvious to me that this is for payoff in subsequent titles  However, because this always plays out in exactly the same way no matter what Hawke does, the player feels railroaded. If more variance had been introduced such that final conflict could have eventuated from different circumstances based upon Hawke's choices, as opposed to the choices of NPCs, then DA2 would feel like a far better game, because the player would feel far more empowered and as though they were playing an active role in the story rather than a reactive one.
[/quote]

My main issue is that there are no variety in the game. It's all about Kirkwall. This is because Hawke's story is a rather boring one. Complete a bunch of pointless quests, be in the right place at the right time, and oh, you are the "Champion".

There were lots of places you visited in DA:O.  With that, I actually enjoy involving in different scenarios than kicking darkspawn butt all the time.

Modifié par ApostleinTriumph, 03 août 2011 - 03:33 .

[Persephone]

Itkovian wrote...

Aside from Alistair, I think the DA2 characters had significantly more depth and interaction than in DAO, and is one of the thigns that DA2 did better. There is definitely a lot more personnal content for each NPC than most of the DAO NPCs (where the personnal quests were minor at best, except for Alistair who had a strong focus).

Mind you, I prefer being able to engage my NPCs in conversations when I wish it (even if it is in specific locations, like their home base), but overall I feel I got a more more rewarding experience in the DA2 companions than DAO.

And I find my Hawke to be quite heroic, though clearly more one that is thrust into the role by circumstances than by seeking it out directly. The structure of the story is more about him finding himself in the middle of the boiling cauldron and being the one who (heroically) decides to put things to right, than him seeking out the boiling cauldrons of the world (if that makes sense). So in that sense there is truth to Hawke being more reactive than proactive, but I do not find it any less heroic or believable than the alternative (though no doubt future DA content will, and was always meant to be, more about Hawke's more proactive heroism, as DA2 was more like a giant "Origin" story than an epic plot arc).

Thank you.

Itkovian

Bravo. Very well said!!!

[aftohsix]

I disagree with this quite a bit. Having recently played The Witcher 1 I can attest that Dragon Age 2 does an excellent job at creating a connection with your party members. Does it do the BEST JOB EVER? No. There are several things Bioware could have done to improve this but it isn't the worst I've seen.

What does the Witcher have to do with this? Throughout that game you run into multiple NPCs who say "Geralt! Hey best friend" Which leads to you telling them you don't know who they are because you can't remember. Cue multiple dialog trees explaining their backstory and why you're such good buds to you right? Nope. All you get is "Well that sucks but yeah we're totally pals."

Not once did I feel like "I'm gonna swing by the pub to check on Zoltan"

I had that feeling multiple times in DA2 with Varric, Isabela, Merril, Hawke's sibling.... In fact the only party members I didn't want to check in with were Fenris and Anders and that's mostly because they're such little babies if you don't agree with their stance on mage / templar.

[tmp7704]

Itkovian wrote...

Aside from Alistair, I think the DA2 characters had significantly more depth and interaction than in DAO, and is one of the thigns that DA2 did better. There is definitely a lot more personnal content for each NPC than most of the DAO NPCs (where the personnal quests were minor at best, except for Alistair who had a strong focus).

Could agree about the interaction --although that's largely impression caused by said interactions being doled out through the drip feed of "now you get to exchange another two sentences, again" quest system, imo-- but i can't say i ever got a sense of these characters having much of depth. Certainly not "significantly more" when compared to DAO companions -- at least can't think of anything that'd be an example of it.

[ebevan91]

Yeah I felt no attachment to the characters in DA2.

Even the one I romanced, Isabela. I just romanced her cause she had big ******. No connection.

I had more attachment to the characters in DA: Awakening than I did the DA2 characters.

Well I guess I was attached to Bethany since she was my sister.

Modifié par ebevan91, 03 août 2011 - 05:41 .

[Huntress]

ApostleinTriumph wrote...

The main story of DA2 is about hawke and mages, templars conflict, did you miss it? Is not another "saving the world"  OR BEEN HEROIC is about a conflict with mages and templars, good or bad thats for you to decided.

I rather like it, the forum was overun by mages and templars posts like 8-10 months ago, so been in the conflict was a good deal for me, of course few things went wrong or not polished enough but it was a good story.

The charactersin DA2  have more soul that the ones in DAO is true, in DAA some character there where even better than DAO characters, to name a few Sigrun, Velanna and Anders were great! Do I miss them all? yes, do I like DA2 companions? oh yes.

[alex90c]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

I was attached to Bethany. I needed to mod DA2 to romance her. She was soo awesome and cute.

What.

[barenas]

I didn't feel attached to any of the charactes of either game. Games are too...gamey I guess is the right word. Bioware does an admirable job but I have no feeling towards the characters. It's just a game. Only a good book has gotten me attached to a character.

[Johnsen1972]

alex90c wrote...

What.

That 

[Gavinthelocust]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

alex90c wrote...

What.

That 

What.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I don't feel as connected to the DA2 characters because I have less control over them. I can't make them do as many interesting things. I can't scout ahead to disarm traps with Isabela. I can't have Varric wear a helmet. I can't choose anyone's specialisation.

I like characters to the extent that they are mine. The DAO characters could be made to be mine, to some degree, so to that degree I liked them. The DA2 characters are not mine at all, so I'm indifferent to them.

[alex90c]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

alex90c wrote...

What.

That 

Hawke + Bethany = siblings

sibling romance = incest

...

[Sylvianus]

No need to dramatize. This is a video game character that he loves. Not his sister, not the concept of sibling romance. Bethany isn't his sister.

Bethany IS a character and can be considered as the best of companions. He might have loved her replaces Isabela or Merril.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 03 août 2011 - 07:15 .

[FieryDove]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Not a bit 'might' at all. No noble lives would have been saved if Meredith did it. The Arishok had no respect for Meredith, so it would have played out quite differently.

The Quanri waste nothing. They wanted to convert everyone they could. (Or enslave if they won't convert).

Again, Hawke being there didn't matter one whit except for plot device to + Champion title. (Which is also meaningless in the grand scheme of things).

Hmm too much OT.

The companions needed more screen time with Hawke, more personal fleshing out I guess is what I'm thinking. (Not just quest related).

It was nice seeing them interact with other companions/dog but that probably took away from the limit of Hawke + Companion time.

Also living statues in my house didn't add much from a companion development standpoint. Just imho

[Sabariel]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

FieryDove wrote...

Someone brought this up before.

If Hawke wasn't there Meredith would have done it in a few minutes anyhow. She does have an army of templars at her beck and call. 

Hawke *might* have saved a few noble lives...that is a big *might*.

Not a bit 'might' at all. No noble lives would have been saved if Meredith did it. The Arishok had no respect for Meredith, so it would have played out quite differently.

The Arishok had absolutely no respect for my Miserable Bastard Hawke and things still played out almost exactly the same way it did for the Hawke that the Arishok respected. The only difference was MB Hawke didn't get the option of a one-on-one duel.

So I wouldn't exactly say that things would be "quite different" for Meredith. Probably only, "very slightly different" in that she wouldn't get the option of the duel either.

Modifié par Sabariel, 03 août 2011 - 11:16 .

[Ryzaki]

Not to mention Meredith wouldn't have given the Arishok a chance to open his mouth before she cut him down.

She's not a push over. The Arishok was dead either way. Hawke or Meredith.