270 réponses à ce sujet

[Nashiktal]

I felt just as much if not more attatchement to the DA2 characters than 1, and most of my care  for DAO characters is mainly because of nostalgia.

I loved Leliannes' character, but Seeing Aveling find love without hawke, Merril and Isabella playing cards, Varric and Merril talking about the old days.... You get the idea.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 04 août 2011 - 01:26 .

[naledgeborn]

Meredith beating the Arishok? LOL seriously? I don't think so. She was only "not a pushover" when she had the lyrium sword that gave her dragon ball z powers. In act 2 she didn't have her z sword. Templars would have stormed the keep. Qunari would have killed them. Nobles would be converted or killed. The Qunari line would have been pushed south. Your Journey Ends Here...

The point of the Champion title is that Hawke was the only one skilled or (in a mage's case) powerful enough to beat the Arishok/Qunari. Hell the only time in game that Qunari were killed by humans (not related to Hawke) was when their swords were tied to their sheaths and they were bound up. Not to mention the Qunari had 'gatlock' and other technologies hidden up their sleeves.

[In Exile]

I don't feel attached to video-game characters. I liked Morrigain and Sten in DA:O, and really liked Varric in DA2... but otherwise there was nothing different about characters in either game. DA2 just lacked an Alistair/Morrigain.

[naledgeborn]

In Exile wrote...

I don't feel attached to video-game characters. I liked Morrigain and Sten in DA:O, and really liked Varric in DA2... but otherwise there was nothing different about characters in either game. DA2 just lacked an Alistair/Morrigain.

You spelled her name wrong but I agree with that.

[In Exile]

naledgeborn wrote...
You spelled her name wrong but I agree with that.

I played DA:O lots, I swears. Just never bothered to pay attention on how to spell her name.

[FieryDove]

In Exile wrote...

 DA2 just lacked an Alistair/Morrigain.

Ah this is the problem then.

Lots of Alistair/Morrigan for DA3 and all will be good.

[Sabariel]

In Exile wrote...

I don't feel attached to video-game characters. I liked Morrigain and Sten in DA:O, and really liked Varric in DA2... but otherwise there was nothing different about characters in either game. DA2 just lacked an Alistair/Morrigain.

DA2 did have Alistair and Morrigan, they just changed their names to Anders and Fenris

[alex90c]

Sabariel wrote...

In Exile wrote...

I don't feel attached to video-game characters. I liked Morrigain and Sten in DA:O, and really liked Varric in DA2... but otherwise there was nothing different about characters in either game. DA2 just lacked an Alistair/Morrigain.

DA2 did have Alistair and Morrigan, they just changed their names to Anders and Fenris

Unlike Anders and Fenris however, Alistair and Morrigan were actually likeable.

I don' t want to hear MAGES RULE and MAGES SUCK non-stop for an entire game.

Modifié par alex90c, 04 août 2011 - 09:45 .

[Fallstar]

I felt attached to both Varric and Anders in DA:2, although Anders was really a character from Origins... I definately felt more attached to more characters in Origins than DA:2, the way I see it, the test is which characters would you be willing to go through a dlc with, when that character is your only companion for the dlc? For Origins/Awakening, thats Morrigan, Zevran, Sten, Alistair, Anders and Nathaniel. Wheras in DA:2 it'd only be Anders, Varric and Warden Bethany.

I feel like I've rambled for a bit, so in gist: I felt attached to fewer characters in DA:2 than Origins, and didn't find myself being really attached to any character in DA:2 as much as Morrigan. But there you go.

[Sylvianus]

naledgeborn wrote...

Meredith beating the Arishok? LOL seriously? I don't think so. She was only "not a pushover" when she had the lyrium sword that gave her dragon ball z powers. In act 2 she didn't have her z sword. Templars would have stormed the keep. Qunari would have killed them. Nobles would be converted or killed. The Qunari line would have been pushed south. Your Journey Ends Here...

The point of the Champion title is that Hawke was the only one skilled or (in a mage's case) powerful enough to beat the Arishok/Qunari. Hell the only time in game that Qunari were killed by humans (not related to Hawke) was when their swords were tied to their sheaths and they were bound up. Not to mention the Qunari had 'gatlock' and other technologies hidden up their sleeves.

You are far from the truth. I wonder if I'll tell you..

Qunari = a hundred warriors ( my god, only that, what the hell is this number against a city of thousand people ), under-equipped ( equipment lost in the sinking ) that's why many of them are naked torsos. ( No chance against a well-armed veteran Templar. )

- No artillery, no poison.

These 100 soldiers scattered in the lower town, the Upper Town, and the last locked in the dungeon with their hostages. So outnumbered in every step.

- By Vollen is separated by the sea and the reinforcements would probably take days or weeks before arriving to Kirkwall..

Qunari, faced to the most powerful circle of Thedas, according to the codex that contains several thousand of them. So much Knight Templars to watch them and the Templar  of Kirkwall are among the most powerful in the East of Thedas. + civil guard led by Aveline. Kirkwall forces are a thousand times more numerous and better armed. They have the power of an entire circle ! One mage is already a threat to ten warriors ! One hundred Qunari... yeah .In addition, there should be less than a hundred warriors among Qunari, because the Tal vashock or I don't remeber their name, have deserted the ranks.

Their attack is suicidal, not tactical, doomed to failure. Meredith? She doesn't care about the fate of the hostages and would attacked anyways. You know it when she argues with Orsino about it. The lightning attack of Qunari could have been justified and effective, if reinforcements were not far away.

Meredith? You saw what she was capable, even without Idol. I do not see how the Arishok could not be defeated by it.

Above all, it makes no sense that she should fight in a duel, as she has the advantage of numbers, and power on Qunari. They would be all eradicated by a massive attack in the dungeon.

The truth is that there is no need to Hawk, Kirkwall would have win without him.

And especially the attack is difficult to understand unless Qunari knew they would die, unless they wanted to make a final blows to their honor.

But to claim that they would convert Kirkwall, and take control over the city ? It makes no sense. No need Hawk.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 04 août 2011 - 11:54 .

[tmp7704]

naledgeborn wrote...

Hell the only time in game that Qunari were killed by humans (not related to Hawke) was when their swords were tied to their sheaths and they were bound up.

These swords and kossith didn't tie up themselves.

[Sutekh]

tmp7704 wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

Hell the only time in game that Qunari were killed by humans (not related to Hawke) was when their swords were tied to their sheaths and they were bound up.

These swords and kossith didn't tie up themselves.

The swords were tied voluntarily, possibly by the Kossith themselves, as a compromise to allow a diplomatic meeting which would normally have required no sword at all.

Disarmed Kossith were then subdued and tied by Templar / fanatics.

[Sylvianus]

Anyway, if Qunari have not been attacked, that's because of the weakness of the Viscount, as useless as Hawke.

It hurts me to see how a small threat can be considered as the greatest of all time, without the material that goes with it to convince us.

It makes no sense that they weren't hunted in 3 years. They do not have the strength to intimidate and to make bend the Authorities.

[Ariella]

Sylvianus wrote...

Anyway, if Qunari have not been attacked, that's because of the weakness of the Viscount, as useless as Hawke.

It hurts me to see how a small threat can be considered as the greatest of all time, without the material that goes with it to convince us.

It makes no sense that they weren't hunted in 3 years. They do not have the strength to intimidate and to make bend the Authorities.

Let's see, they weren't hunted (I assume you mean the fanatics) because they were hidden in a very powerful group: the Chantry/Templars, a group which the Viscount was already in a balancing act with in regards to Meredith/Orsino's little game. The Viscount also wasn't aware until certain events in act two how far those opposed to the Qunari actually were willing to go. Plus there's the little fact that Dumar couldn't afford to antagonize the Chantry (AKA Meredith and the Templars) since they are the ones who removed his predessesor and installed him.

Hawke is a private citizen with no authority to hunt the fanatics down even if he ir she cared to. As long as they didn't bother Hawke, it seemed to me to be looking for trouble to go after them.

[Sylvianus]

Ariella wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Anyway, if Qunari have not been attacked, that's because of the weakness of the Viscount, as useless as Hawke.

It hurts me to see how a small threat can be considered as the greatest of all time, without the material that goes with it to convince us.

It makes no sense that they weren't hunted in 3 years. They do not have the strength to intimidate and to make bend the Authorities.

Let's see, they weren't hunted (I assume you mean the fanatics) because they were hidden in a very powerful group: the Chantry/Templars, a group which the Viscount was already in a balancing act with in regards to Meredith/Orsino's little game. The Viscount also wasn't aware until certain events in act two how far those opposed to the Qunari actually were willing to go. Plus there's the little fact that Dumar couldn't afford to antagonize the Chantry (AKA Meredith and the Templars) since they are the ones who removed his predessesor and installed him.

Hawke is a private citizen with no authority to hunt the fanatics down even if he ir she cared to. As long as they didn't bother Hawke, it seemed to me to be looking for trouble to go after them.

Well, I Talked about Qunari, actually.

They are not powerful enough to be considered as a power ( threat ) that is imposed itself in a sovereign city and not been hunted in three years.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 05 août 2011 - 08:50 .

[ApostleinTriumph]

Okay, I'm having another run of DA2, and it feels like even though I've said story wasn't that good, I feel like story was actually fine. The problem was that the rest to "fill" the blanks between doing story missions, were really empty. For example, DA:O, your mission is to get the warden treaties signed, you go to brecilian forest, and bam, there is a werewolf problem. You go to circle, they are having big trouble with blood mages. That kind of interaction and change of environments/quests never happened in Kirkwall. That made the rest of the game really boring compared to DA:O, as a huge percentage of quests were really devoid of meaning.

[Kail Ashton]

I liked the entire DA2 cast, in contrast i didn't care for a few companions in origins, Wynne being the top of the list >__> the dog was a waste, Morrigan, while i like her is a pain in the arse to use cause heaven forbid you're not burning down everything and murdering everyone lest you face her -15 disaproval wrath, Sten took alotta playthrus before i liked him & Oghren showed up too late to fully appreciate him in origins (and no i don't want to go thru half the entire ballbusting orzamor quests at leval 7 just to get him early every playthru)

Alistair, zevran & shale were the only standout ones, everyone else tended to grate on the nerves after awhile, the DA2 cast on the otherhand are still great after multiple playthrus, more so in Legacy, if anything the main plot of DA2 suffered from so much focus put on the companions (it's a double edge sword, more time/effort could've fixed that though)

[Bio Addict]

The Origins cast stands head and shoulders above the DA2 cast in my mind. Like many, Varric was my favorite of the sequel companions with the rest being just okay. The Origins cast didn't have a single weak link. I can still remember that feeling I got just wandering around the old camp site, a feeling I hadn't felt since playing the original KOTOR. These characters were family and we were in it together. That may seem silly to some but that's just the way it was for me.

In my mind Dragon Age has, at least on one level, always been pretty standard high fantasy fare. The companion characters were what put the first game over the top and the second game just went in the wrong direction in that regard, on a few levels. I think Bioware may have been more interested in the idea that they were breaking the mold with the new companions rather than just trying to give us the kind of characters they knew we'd like. Here's hoping they turn it around for DA3.

[Alex Kershaw]

I couldn't care less if I never see a DA2 character again. Morrigan, Alistair, Leliana, Oghren... Even Shale, Sten and Zevran were great. I definitely felt more attached to these DAO characters.

The cause is obviously the lack of conversations in DA2. 2 conversations per act doesn't suffice. Not even close. It has to be player-initiated at any time (only in camp/house though probably) and there has to be as much detail as in DAO...

[Ariella]

Sylvianus wrote...

Ariella wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Anyway, if Qunari have not been attacked, that's because of the weakness of the Viscount, as useless as Hawke.

It hurts me to see how a small threat can be considered as the greatest of all time, without the material that goes with it to convince us.

It makes no sense that they weren't hunted in 3 years. They do not have the strength to intimidate and to make bend the Authorities.

Let's see, they weren't hunted (I assume you mean the fanatics) because they were hidden in a very powerful group: the Chantry/Templars, a group which the Viscount was already in a balancing act with in regards to Meredith/Orsino's little game. The Viscount also wasn't aware until certain events in act two how far those opposed to the Qunari actually were willing to go. Plus there's the little fact that Dumar couldn't afford to antagonize the Chantry (AKA Meredith and the Templars) since they are the ones who removed his predessesor and installed him.

Hawke is a private citizen with no authority to hunt the fanatics down even if he ir she cared to. As long as they didn't bother Hawke, it seemed to me to be looking for trouble to go after them.

Well, I Talked about Qunari, actually.

They are not powerful enough to be considered as a power ( threat ) that is imposed itself in a sovereign city and not been hunted in three years.

They weren't hunted because Vicount Dumar wasn't about to blow the Llomyan (spelling?) accords out of the water with violent action on his part. That and until act 2, the Qunari hadn't DONE anything to break the law.

[Sylvianus]

Ariella wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Ariella wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Anyway, if Qunari have not been attacked, that's because of the weakness of the Viscount, as useless as Hawke.

It hurts me to see how a small threat can be considered as the greatest of all time, without the material that goes with it to convince us.

It makes no sense that they weren't hunted in 3 years. They do not have the strength to intimidate and to make bend the Authorities.

Let's see, they weren't hunted (I assume you mean the fanatics) because they were hidden in a very powerful group: the Chantry/Templars, a group which the Viscount was already in a balancing act with in regards to Meredith/Orsino's little game. The Viscount also wasn't aware until certain events in act two how far those opposed to the Qunari actually were willing to go. Plus there's the little fact that Dumar couldn't afford to antagonize the Chantry (AKA Meredith and the Templars) since they are the ones who removed his predessesor and installed him.

Hawke is a private citizen with no authority to hunt the fanatics down even if he ir she cared to. As long as they didn't bother Hawke, it seemed to me to be looking for trouble to go after them.

Well, I Talked about Qunari, actually.

They are not powerful enough to be considered as a power ( threat ) that is imposed itself in a sovereign city and not been hunted in three years.

They weren't hunted because Vicount Dumar wasn't about to blow the Llomyan (spelling?) accords out of the water with violent action on his part. That and until act 2, the Qunari hadn't DONE anything to break the law.

Of course. To accept a hundred warriors of a foreign power, threatening and refusing to leave the city, that behave like kings  in a city sovereign. <_<

They are a threat to the security of an entire city, they are locked in a neighborhood that they are appropriate for themself and they refuse that any human  enters, except without permission. This is an area that belonged to the city. Yeah.

Have you ever seen one hundred of Orlesian soldiers  come in Denerim despite a peace agreement with Ferelden, and capture some of the capital without complying with the laws of the authorities ?

"They haven't done  wrong."

Yes, we can consider if we want that the Viscount is someone  horribly stupid, like all the major characters in DA2.

And I find very disappointing that the plotline is based on something as weak to justify the acceptance of the presence of a highly unstable threat by the authorities. 3 years ? A foreign military presence in a sovereign city ? I mean.. really ?

Modifié par Sylvianus, 06 août 2011 - 07:32 .

[Ariella]

Sylvianus wrote...

Ariella wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Ariella wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Anyway, if Qunari have not been attacked, that's because of the weakness of the Viscount, as useless as Hawke.

It hurts me to see how a small threat can be considered as the greatest of all time, without the material that goes with it to convince us.

It makes no sense that they weren't hunted in 3 years. They do not have the strength to intimidate and to make bend the Authorities.

Let's see, they weren't hunted (I assume you mean the fanatics) because they were hidden in a very powerful group: the Chantry/Templars, a group which the Viscount was already in a balancing act with in regards to Meredith/Orsino's little game. The Viscount also wasn't aware until certain events in act two how far those opposed to the Qunari actually were willing to go. Plus there's the little fact that Dumar couldn't afford to antagonize the Chantry (AKA Meredith and the Templars) since they are the ones who removed his predessesor and installed him.

Hawke is a private citizen with no authority to hunt the fanatics down even if he ir she cared to. As long as they didn't bother Hawke, it seemed to me to be looking for trouble to go after them.

Well, I Talked about Qunari, actually.

They are not powerful enough to be considered as a power ( threat ) that is imposed itself in a sovereign city and not been hunted in three years.

They weren't hunted because Vicount Dumar wasn't about to blow the Llomyan (spelling?) accords out of the water with violent action on his part. That and until act 2, the Qunari hadn't DONE anything to break the law.

Of course. To accept a hundred warriors of a foreign power, threatening and refusing to leave the city, that behave like kings  in a city sovereign. <_<

They are a threat to the security of an entire city, they are locked in a neighborhood that they are appropriate for themself and they refuse that any human  enters, except without permission. This is an area that belonged to the city. Yeah.

Have you ever seen one hundred of Orlesian soldiers  come in Denerim despite a peace agreement with Ferelden, and capture some of the capital without complying with the laws of the authorities ?

"They haven't done  wrong."

Yes, we can consider if we want that the Viscount is someone  horribly stupid, like all the major characters in DA2.

And I find very disappointing that the plotline is based on something as weak to justify the acceptance of the presence of a highly unstable threat by the authorities. 3 years ? A foreign military presence in a sovereign city ? I mean.. really ?

New York City has terrible problems with the parking habits of UN envoys, lose millions of dollars in revenue every year because of diplomatic immunity. Has to spend money making sure that certain visitors to the UN (who also have immunity) are guarded, especially someone like the president of Iran or Venesula...

If you listen to what Bran said, in an act 2 quest. The Qunari are politically neutral, and hunting them like animals would certainly be a violation of the Accords. Countries follow treaties, even when it's politically disadvantageous for them. Consider what would happen if Kirkwall broke the treaty first, as it is part of the alliance of the Free Marches, the entirety of the Marches would be at risk for Qunari aggression. So not only would there be political trouble from the Qunari but trouble from the other cities as well. Might even excise Kirkwall from the Alliance leaving it open for attack.

And the major characters of DA2 aren't stupid, they just follow agendas that you don't agree with. The Viscount is in a weak position , but that's not the same as stupid. High Cleric Elethea has a blind spot for the Chantry, and is passive, but not stupid. As for Hawke it depends how you play him/her. Meredith and Orsino are certainly not stupid just driven and locked so completely in their conflict they can't see how the outcome will affect anything else. Even the Arishok is not stupid, but he will do what the Qun requires because he believes. None of this is stupidty. Character flaws, yes. "Human" weakness absolutely, desperation, certainly. But not stupidity.

[Sylvianus]

Ariella wrote...

New York City has terrible problems with the parking habits of UN envoys, lose millions of dollars in revenue every year because of diplomatic immunity. Has to spend money making sure that certain visitors to the UN (who also have immunity) are guarded, especially someone like the president of Iran or Venesula...

If you listen to what Bran said, in an act 2 quest. The Qunari are politically neutral, and hunting them like animals would certainly be a violation of the Accords. Countries follow treaties, even when it's politically disadvantageous for them. Consider what would happen if Kirkwall broke the treaty first, as it is part of the alliance of the Free Marches, the entirety of the Marches would be at risk for Qunari aggression. So not only would there be political trouble from the Qunari but trouble from the other cities as well. Might even excise Kirkwall from the Alliance leaving it open for attack.

And the major characters of DA2 aren't stupid, they just follow agendas that you don't agree with. The Viscount is in a weak position , but that's not the same as stupid. High Cleric Elethea has a blind spot for the Chantry, and is passive, but not stupid. As for Hawke it depends how you play him/her. Meredith and Orsino are certainly not stupid just driven and locked so completely in their conflict they can't see how the outcome will affect anything else. Even the Arishok is not stupid, but he will do what the Qun requires because he believes. None of this is stupidty. Character flaws, yes. "Human" weakness absolutely, desperation, certainly. But not stupidity.

There is no need to follow a treaty, if not respected by the other party.

A treaty does it work both ways. Kirkwall was in self-defense in every respect, and had the right to ask Qunari to get out. Anyone, any sovereign nation invaded by foreign troops dangerous, which behaves as a power, would have required that.

No, it's not only politically disadvantageous, it's a dangerous, disadvantage which directly affects the sovereignty of a country, its security. Sorry but not credible. Even the Swiss completely neutral during the Renaissance has never accepted that the French soldiers, German or Italian just take away a piece of their land, their Sovereignty. unless they anointed been defeated, or that they were powerless faced to a higher power, which was not the case of Kirkwall, of course.

For New York, Unfortunately, this analogy doesn't match.

We are talking about a military presence that has invaded a sovereign city, that listen no one, do what it wants, wathever the will of the authorities. The United States of America as I know, will not allow hundreds of Venezuelan soldiers invading a small American city, and let them make their own law to the detriment of a whole section of citizens.

The people of Kirkwall shows a concern and a growing weariness in their presence. It is obvious qunari are not considered as neutral. I see nothing that justifies the acceptance of a removed part of the city to its citizens, its people , governs its own rules.

A state within a state. Nothing justifies that. It would not hunt them like animals,  if the viscount asked to leave the city, depending precisely on their peace agreement. They could have moved outdoors or on beaches.

Your logic is wrong when you say they didn't attack first. A peace agreement assumes to not attack  the sovereignty. The Qunari have not respected this agreement, they are clearly wrong. The physical attack is certainly not the first act.

Do you think that if humans travel to Par Vollen and come to settle in their city, with their own rules, they will not be attacked ?

Also, I do not believe that the Viscount has made any policy to ask for help to other cities, who are his allies. Three years ? He had plenty of time to seal a new alliance in case the Qunaris wouldn't want to leave.  But no matter.

The important thing is that Kirkwall is directly affected, and is entitled to react. The Qunari said they wouldn't leave, so they wouldn't find what they seeks. Which may mean indefinitely. Unacceptable for a sovereign city. As I said, it isn't credible.

After, yes, I can understand that the story claims to be based on the stupidity of a man ( well may be human weakeness for you ). But I think we have to overcome that the next time. Because only that can explain how we arrive at this attack. That's not very intelligent for me..

Modifié par Sylvianus, 06 août 2011 - 09:24 .

[Zoikster]

I way preferred DA:O characters. Alistair, Morrigan, Oghren....all 1000 times more likeable imho. I loved their personalities, their stories were fleshed out well ,especially if you took the time to come back to camp and chat them up, and gift them. They grew on me in a way the DA 2 characters never did. Hell, I even liked Wynne a great deal.

Modifié par Zoikster, 06 août 2011 - 11:45 .