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The Geth: Are they an abomination?

Débuté par Guest_Luc0s_* , juil. 30 2011 08:53

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#1
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 30 juillet 2011 - 08:53

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 A couple of BSN users and me were having a discussion about the geth in another topic about the Illusive Man. Since the discussion was off-topic, I decided to make a seperate thread about this. The subject of the discussion was this:


Are the geth an abomination?


Some people argued that the geth are an abomination and should be exterminated because they are unnatural and potentially dangerous. I disagree and in my opinion the geth are in essence as natural as you and me.

Though the source of the geth's intelligence is synthetic, their intelligence and self-awareness itself is really not so different from our own organic intelligence. Therefor I think the geth deserve to be treated as an actual sapient species, even though they're synthetic and not organic. The geth deserve the same rights and respect as any other organic sapient species, like the humans, turians, quarians, asari, krogan, salarians, etc. etc. etc.


What do you people think? Discuss!

Modifié par Luc0s, 30 juillet 2011 - 08:56 .

#2
Uzrbital
Posté 30 juillet 2011 - 08:54

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The geth wants peace, if I'm right. You heard what Legion said in ME2!

#3
Raiil
Posté 30 juillet 2011 - 08:55

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Absolutely not abominations. Their sentience may have come about in an odd way, but they're sapient. Culturally they're worlds away from us- but so are the krogan, asari, salarians, etc.

#4
IronSabbath88
Posté 30 juillet 2011 - 08:55

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Not abominations in the fact that they can be reasoned with. Legion shows this. They just think as a group rather than an individual. The Heretics, you can argue are abominations, and there will never be a consensus on whether it was right to overwrite them or destroy them.

It's complicated..

#5
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 30 juillet 2011 - 08:57

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Some of the people on the other topic argued that the geth are an abomination because they are unnatural. "The geth are not truly alive" was their argument. What do you guys have to say about that?

#6
marshalleck
Posté 30 juillet 2011 - 08:58

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They're only "abominations" if you believe there is some grand, cosmic intelligence that decides the way things ought to be, and the geth run counter to that.

I'd staunchly reject such a notion, and the idea that geth are an "abomination."

Modifié par marshalleck, 30 juillet 2011 - 08:59 .

#7
littlezack
Posté 30 juillet 2011 - 09:01

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Luc0s wrote...

Some of the people on the other topic argued that the geth are an abomination because they are unnatural. "The geth are not truly alive" was their argument. What do you guys have to say about that?


As a wise man once said: "This word...I don't think it means what you think it means."

By that definition, my toaster is an abomination.

#8
Blooddrunk1004
Posté 30 juillet 2011 - 09:03

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Why would you consider Geth as abomination?
They are one of the most intelligent and peacefull species in ME universe.

#9
zigzak19
Posté 30 juillet 2011 - 09:03

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Luc0s wrote...

Some of the people on the other topic argued that the geth are an abomination because they are unnatural. "The geth are not truly alive" was their argument. What do you guys have to say about that?

Well ive heard one one analogy that kind of reminds me of that "If it looks like a duck, walks like duck, and acts like a duck its a duck" so i would say the geth talk like theyre alive, act like thayre alive and think that theyre alive then theyre alive. The only difference is how they were made.

#10
Inverness Moon
Posté 30 juillet 2011 - 09:03

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marshalleck wrote...

They're only "abominations" if you believe there is some grand, cosmic intelligence that decides the way things ought to be, and the geth run counter to that.

I'd staunchly reject such a notion, and the idea that geth are an "abomination."

Basically, this.

#11
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 30 juillet 2011 - 09:05

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An abomination? No, of-course not. Geth are just technology.

That doesn't mean I consider them living beings, mind you.

#12
Guest_darkness reborn_*
Posté 30 juillet 2011 - 09:09

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You are at it again Luc0s, first with that what if... topic now with this topic.

The Geth: Are they an abomination? No.

#13
marshalleck
Posté 30 juillet 2011 - 09:10

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marshalleck wrote...
some grand, cosmic intelligence that decides the way things ought to be,


And by that I do of course mean God.

#14
Ryzaki
Posté 30 juillet 2011 - 09:12

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Please don't start a religious war.

Anyway I don't consider the Geth abominations. Nor the Reapers. They're just different beings of life.

Still gonna destroy the Reapers though.

#15
legion999
Posté 30 juillet 2011 - 09:13

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No they have no connection with the Fade silly. In all seriousness they aren't abominations.

#16
Guest_Nyoka_*
Posté 30 juillet 2011 - 09:15

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Not abominations, just kinda awkward to be around.

#17
SandTrout
Posté 30 juillet 2011 - 09:16

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Are Geth an abomination? No. As Marshalleck explained, such a title implies that they exist counter to some sort of fundamental faith or philosophy.

Are they potentially a dangerous threat? Absolutely, but so are a Krogan cured of the genophage.

#18
Pride Demon
Posté 30 juillet 2011 - 09:16

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Luc0s wrote...

Some of the people on the other topic argued that the geth are an abomination because they are unnatural. "The geth are not truly alive" was their argument. What do you guys have to say about that?

From a discussion I had through PM with an interesting member of these forums, regarding this very topic...

Pride Demon wrote...
Following the same "hard" scientific POV a machine (regardless of
intellect) could never be considered alive as life ("biota") describes
properly only creatures that exibit biological processes (like having a
pulse or a methabolism, two things a machine can never have), also a
creature is scientifically alive if it possesses the ability to (and
will eventually) die, Geth are incapable of doing so...



From a philosophical and/or religious point of view life is much
harder to describe and as such a thinking machine may very well qualify
as a living creature (note how Legion always addresses his species
plight from a philosophical perspective, something peculiar for a
machine, as the scientific side of their existence is fixed: created as
manual labor, optimizes with near platforms and works until dismantled,
memory archived and reused when a platform is dismantled)...

I'll refrain from copying the whole exchange because it would take too long, but I assume this more or less answers your question?

As for the original one, no I do not consider them abominations: their creation, while accidental, does not violate any particular canon of real life (that is real life IN-UNIVERSE of course)...
After all AIs exist and are normally created in laboratories like Synthetic Insights (though under heavy scrutiny), I'd say the unnatural communions that are the Reaper creations (the husks, including scions, praetorians, brutes, banshees, cannibals, etc...) fit more the definition of "abomination"...

#19
Lotion Soronarr
Posté 30 juillet 2011 - 09:17

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Given that I don't believe in true artificial intelligence.

I'd kill em all. EDI, Geth, Repers.

#20
Guest_Nyoka_*
Posté 30 juillet 2011 - 09:20

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^ True artificial intelligence is impossible to achieve in the current state of affairs, but that's why the genre is called science-fiction. The fiction part is what allows you to go beyond this pesky reality into a world of really interesting and imaginary things.

#21
TheCrakFox
Posté 30 juillet 2011 - 09:20

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I think creating them in the first place was a mistake, but now we're past the point of no return. Getting rid of them would be genocide, and that of course is not such a nice act to perform.

#22
Inverness Moon
Posté 30 juillet 2011 - 09:21

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Pride Demon wrote...

I'd say the unnatural communions that are the Reaper creations (the husks, including scions, praetorians, brutes, banshees, cannibals, etc...) fit more the definition of "abomination"...

If any of those things could be considered aboninations its only because they're creating by depriving others of life. Synthetic-organic fusions are not inherently abominations.

I think the reapers are pretty interesting. It's too bad that they're genocidal and need organics to be turned into LCL in order to make them.

#23
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 30 juillet 2011 - 09:22

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darkness reborn wrote...

You are at it again Luc0s, first with that what if... topic now with this topic.

The Geth: Are they an abomination? No.


My "what if..." topic was pure 100% trolling. None of it was serious. I was laughing my ass off with while writing that topic.


This topic however is serious. And if you took some effort to reading the actual OP, you'd see that it's NOT ME who said the geth are an abomination. I in fact OPPOSE that statement.


So please, don't jump to conclusions without reading the actual OP.

#24
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 30 juillet 2011 - 09:29

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Nyoka wrote...

^ True artificial intelligence is impossible to achieve in the current state of affairs, but that's why the genre is called science-fiction. The fiction part is what allows you to go beyond this pesky reality into a world of really interesting and imaginary things.


I do think the sci-fi lore behind the geth is quite genius. It sounds quite realistic and it could possibly be real. In theory, if you want to create a true A.I., an artificial neural network is the way to go.

But of course an artificial neural network alone is not enough to create an A.I. in real-life and there are still many problems that prevents our real-life artificial neural networks from "waking up", but that doesn't mean it isn't possible in the future.

I believe that one day, we'll be able to make a true A.I. similar to the geth in real-life.

Modifié par Luc0s, 30 juillet 2011 - 09:30 .

#25
AngelicMachinery
Posté 30 juillet 2011 - 09:30

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Luc0s wrote...

Some of the people on the other topic argued that the geth are an abomination because they are unnatural. "The geth are not truly alive" was their argument. What do you guys have to say about that?


I'm sure most of them are quarian/tali fanatics,  that seems to be the way things work.
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