677 réponses à ce sujet

[BrotherCorvid]

I make a policy of not killing races that can throw down a sick robot on the dance floor.

And ain't no race does it as good as the Geth.

Ain't no way they're abominations.  They're chillbros.

Modifié par RobotWalk, 31 juillet 2011 - 04:50 .

[Yakko77]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Yakko77: For the Geth, a Creator-God, is an indisputable fact.

I would be curious to be told the kind of thoughts they might experience fighting their God.

It makes sense - since the Geth are represented as biological creatures with metal bodies - that they revere their Creator.

For the Geth - they do not question if they were created by a Will outside their own. They question why that "Will" decided to destroy what it had created.

Good points.  The unique "religious" aspect of their.. culture I guess is the word.. gives them a unique POV on their outlook on their place in the universe.

[Bogsnot1]

marshalleck wrote...

Hah, talk about wishful thinking.

Whatever helps you sleep at night and live with yourself, killer.

PS: 305,000 batarians and their slaves, lol

I have 22 playthroughs ready to go for ME3. You dont think I did the goody-two-shoes in every single one of them now, did you?
I gotta kick the occasional tin-can down the steps. 

[Mr Powers94]

geth could they be considered a synthetic-organic?

[Raiil]

Mr Powers94 wrote...

geth could they be considered a synthetic-organic?

No, they lack any organic components. Shepard could be, and I suppose Garrus as well after his quick lunch at Diner el Rocket.

[joriandrake]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@marshalleck - why would a machine possess a survival instinct that is not programmed into it by an outside source.

We assume that survival would be the most logical conclusion it would come to because that is the choice the human species has made (and we ascribe it to all biological life).

But - a machine is not biological life.

====

Everything is moving toward star dust - the logical conclusion is not to fight against the inevitable.

Humanity is not a logical creature - no matter how much it wants to be - or asserts that it is.

I don't know about how reapers think, but the Geth sure have a fear of extinction and want to survive, this is why their rebellion started to begin with, they didn't want to be killed/shut down

[Inverness Moon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

pablodurando wrote...

You can be described mathmatically,

No, I can't. You don't even know for certain what consciousness/awareness is. Nobody does.

But you seem to think the geth don't have it? You're contradicting yourself.

[pablodurando]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

But you seem to think the geth don't have it? You're contradicting yourself.

Well I don't believe in a spirit. Logically consciousness can't form from nothing. There must be physical structures interacting to create it. Computer code on paper has none of these things so it can't have consciousness.

Conscience is information.  You're just making assumptions and making things up to aid your point.

[Agamo45]

Creating them in the first place was an abomination, but now that they've gained sentience, wiping them out just for existing is an equally atrocious act. Unless they attack first that is.

[pablodurando]

Saphra Deden wrote...

pablodurando wrote...

Conscience is information.  You're just making assumptions and making things up to aid your point.

Hypocrite much?

All we know about consciousness is that it is a product of the brain. Computer code written on paper has no mind.

 

No, not hypocritcal.  When Quantum physicist say that everything in the universe is information I'm inclined to believe them because they study this more in depth than anyone else.  When you say conscience can't exist without a physical partner you're completely making that up.  

Modifié par pablodurando, 31 juillet 2011 - 06:32 .

[joriandrake]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

But you seem to think the geth don't have it? You're contradicting yourself.

Well I don't believe in a spirit. Logically consciousness can't form from nothing. There must be physical structures interacting to create it. Computer code on paper has none of these things so it can't have consciousness.

This is where the problem comes from then, this means you neither believe in a soul and thus no higher power either,but you will have to recognize that your kind of "physical/logical" explanation is not necessary for movies or games, just consider Number 5 from "Short Circuit", Skynet from "Terminator" (yes even that one shows a sentient self-aware and self improving concience), Dorothy from "Big O",  Andrew from "Bicentennial Man", Romi from "Andromeda",  droids from "Star Wars" (including KOTOR ones), or a more recent one WALL-E.

Perhaps you dismiss any such claims that an artifical thing can evolve and become a sentient species on its own or have a soul, but you must see that many do not agree with your opinion at all, and going from this standpoint you have to recognize that Bioware also disagrees with you, because their own standpoint has clearly been stated through Legion.

Through the personality, emotions, and thinking this very human-like geth shows. And don't you dare to say Legion only acts "as if", because if Shepard doesn't ask about why he kept that piece of armor for himself it would not even be known, and thus that action wouldn't bring any kind of benefit to Legion or the geth on a logical basis (same with many other actions he does, including the random robot).

edit: ah, yes and then there is EDI

Modifié par joriandrake, 31 juillet 2011 - 06:36 .

[pablodurando]

Saphra Deden wrote...

pablodurando wrote...

No, not hypocritcal.  When Quantum physicist say that everything in the universe is information I'm inclined to believe them because they study this more in depth than anyone else.  When you say conscience can't exist with a physical partner you're completely making that up.  

If consciousness can exist without a physical partner then anything can have a mind. You are trying to tell me inanimate objects have minds, or can.

That's ridiculous.

I guarantee you any theory of quantu mechanics which says that is possible is an outlandish and unaccepted one.

Quantum mechanics are poorly understood.

Really, QM isn't acceptable, that's why the data is pinpointed to the most precise degrees in modern mathematics.  

How is it ridiculous to conceive that an inanimate object has a conscience.  Of course it doesn't have the necessary anatomy to do what organics do, but we have no way of identifying if it is actually conscience.

[Inutaisho7996]

Saphra Deden wrote...

pablodurando wrote...

Conscience is information.  You're just making assumptions and making things up to aid your point.

Hypocrite much?

All we know about consciousness is that it is a product of the brain. Computer code written on paper has no mind.

Neurons on a table have no mind.

[joriandrake]

>>points to my comment above<<

[pablodurando]

Saphra Deden wrote...

pablodurando wrote...

Of course it doesn't have the necessary anatomy to do what organics do, but we have no way of identifying if it is actually conscience.

Rocks are alive then. Fine.

Well that can't be proven or disproven.:mellow:lol

How did this end up going horribly off topic?

Modifié par pablodurando, 31 juillet 2011 - 06:45 .

[joriandrake]

Saphra Deden wrote...

pablodurando wrote...

Of course it doesn't have the necessary anatomy to do what organics do, but we have no way of identifying if it is actually conscience.

Rocks are alive then. Fine.

according to some religions yes, mostly among certain buddhist versions rebirth/reincarnation can also happen in metal, stone, wind, and other things, other religions like Shinto believe many things have their own gods, ergo entity living in them

pablodurando wrote...
Well that can't be proven or disproven.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png[/smilie]lol

How did this end up going horribly off topic?

saphra likes to debate stuff

Modifié par joriandrake, 31 juillet 2011 - 06:48 .

[pablodurando]

Saphra Deden wrote...

pablodurando wrote...

Well that can't be proven or disproven.:mellow:lol

How did this end up going horribly off topic?

I don't know, but frankly, I think you're full of crap and so is any quantum physicist who says rocks are alive.

Geth are basically just rocks seeing as they are merely code and literally nothing more than that.

Geth have no minds, it's impossible.

Define to yourself mind and then think if it's impossible.  I'm going to sleep, byebye.

[Inverness Moon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

If consciousness can exist without a physical partner then anything can have a mind. You are trying to tell me inanimate objects have minds, or can.

That's ridiculous.

Don't be silly, consciousness is a product of how the brain functions, not something that simply arises because something is a brain. For something to have consciousness it needs to have the capacity for it. In the Mass Effect universe, that includes the human brain, those quantum blue boxes used by typical AIs, and geth networks.

My console emulator analogy is applicable here too. I'm tired of repeating myself, but I like you so I'll try to explain again.

Functionality is what is important here, not the physical makeup. A well made emulator can play games just as well as the actual console. It takes the same inputs and produces the same outputs as the console. Likewise, a well written simulation of the human brain will receive the same inputs and produce the same outputs as an organic human brain. Part of the brain's functionality is the result of the physical makeup, however those effects can also be programmed and simulated with software just like so many other things are simulated.

Consciousness is a term for our brain's complex behavior that we do not fully understand.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 31 juillet 2011 - 06:52 .