"They are behaving in a manner they were never intended to. They are malfunctioning. Glitching, if you will."
A human being who drowns their offspring is behaving in a manner they were never intended to, in as not even acknowledging the moral failings it's contrary to ingrained biological imperatives.
However, said human is still sentient.
The Geth: Are they an abomination?
Débuté par
Guest_Luc0s_*
, juil. 30 2011 08:53
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#327
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 31 juillet 2011 - 12:26
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Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
That they are self aware without a brain.didymos1120 wrote...
Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
Jellyfish don't have brains...
What's your point?
Jellyfish aren't self-aware, just saying. In fact, the only self-aware animals on earth next to us humans are the great apes, some dolphins and elephants.
Dogs and pigs might also have some sense of self-awareness though that is debatable.
#328
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 31 juillet 2011 - 12:29
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Phaelducan wrote...
"They are behaving in a manner they were never intended to. They are malfunctioning. Glitching, if you will."
A human being who drowns their offspring is behaving in a manner they were never intended to, in as not even acknowledging the moral failings it's contrary to ingrained biological imperatives.
However, said human is still sentient.
Of-course. What's your point?
I never argued the geth weren't sentient because they were malfunctioning computer programs.
I said they weren't sentient because they were just computer programs.
#329
Posté 31 juillet 2011 - 12:29
xxSgt_Reed_24xx
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Luc0s wrote...
Saphra Deden wrote...
Geth are not a sentient species. All they are is glitching computer programs.
LOL sorry but no, the geth ARE sentient and no, the geth AREN'T glitching computer programs.
You can stick your head in the sand and deny the facts you don't have to feel guily for your anti-geth agenda, but the truth is that the geth are self-aware and thus sentient to almost the same level as you and me.
Legion being obsessed with Shepard is a sign of sentience.
The geth taking care of Rannoch and creating cemeteries for the death quarians is a sign of sentience.
Legion admitting that the geth wronged the quarians and did horrible things to them is a sign of sentience.
Heck, the very question "Do these units have a soul?" is a sign of sentience!
I agree with you dude!
#330
Posté 31 juillet 2011 - 12:34
Phaelducan
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Saphra Deden wrote...
Phaelducan wrote...
"They are behaving in a manner they were never intended to. They are malfunctioning. Glitching, if you will."
A human being who drowns their offspring is behaving in a manner they were never intended to, in as not even acknowledging the moral failings it's contrary to ingrained biological imperatives.
However, said human is still sentient.
Of-course. What's your point?
I never argued the geth weren't sentient because they were malfunctioning computer programs.
I said they weren't sentient because they were just computer programs.
Luc0s wrote...
LOL sorry but no, the geth ARE sentient and no, the geth AREN'T glitching computer programs.
They are behaving in a manner they were never intended to. They are malfunctioning. Glitching, if you will.
It's a direct quote. He stated X, you said Y, because they were malfunctioning. Direct quote.
#331
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 31 juillet 2011 - 12:38
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Phaelducan wrote...
They are behaving in a manner they were never intended to. They are malfunctioning. Glitching, if you will.
It's a direct quote. He stated X, you said Y, because they were malfunctioning. Direct quote.
I don't think you understand the context of that statement even though I just explained it to you. I don't know how else to clarify it.
#332
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 31 juillet 2011 - 12:41
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Saphra Deden wrote...
Luc0s wrote...
LOL sorry but no, the geth ARE sentient and no, the geth AREN'T glitching computer programs.
They are behaving in a manner they were never intended to. They are malfunctioning. Glitching, if you will.Luc0s wrote...
Legion being obsessed with Shepard is a sign of sentience.
No it isn't. Neither are any of the other things you listed.
Legion seeking out Shepard is just the geth network trying to gain more data about an enemy (old machines and Heretics). Nothing special about a computer program trying to learn. We can do that already.Luc0s wrote...
Heck, the very question "Do these units have a soul?" is a sign of sentience!
No, it is just a question. It doesn't inherently mean anything.
For every action you ascribe sentient or emotion to I can find a much more mundane explanation.
"I doubt it's anything more than a convenient field repair." - Miranda Lawson
1) The fact that the geth don't behave the way they were intended to doesn't mean they're glitching or malfunctioning. A glitch or malfunction is an error in the system. The geth "waking up" isn't an error in the system. It's simply the result of the expanding neural-network, something the quarians knew was possible but they didn't realize it would happen so soon.
When I overclock my CPU it let my CPU run faster than originally intended by Intel. Does that mean my CPU is now glitching or malfunctioning? No, of course not.
2) Legion used Shepard's armor to repare himself, after he has been walking around with a hole in his body for 2 years. When Shepard asks him why he specifically waited with the repairs for 2 years and specifically used Shepard's armor to repare himself, Legion can't provide him with an answer. Legion doesn't know, he can't come up with a logical answer. Why? Because Legion's decision to use Shepard's armor was not a logical decision. It was an emotional decision.
3) Yes, the geth DO build cemeteries for the quarians on rannock and they do bury the quarians. Legion said so. Pay more attention. This is obviously a behavior that only suits a sentient species. There are no logical reasons to build cemeteries and bury the quarians, only emotional reasons.
4) Yes, the geth DO take care of Rannoch and clean the planet up. Legion said so. Pay more attention. The geth live on space stations and personally don't care about Rannoch. Yet they clean up the planet for the quarians. There are no logical reasons to do this, only emotional reasons.
5) For a "convenient field repair" 2 years is awefully late, don't you think? Legion's hole in his body was from Eden Prime. Shepard died 2 years later. Why on earth would Legion walk around with a hole in his body for 2 years only to use Shepard's armor later? I'm sure he could have used something else on Eden Prime to repair his hole right away. It doesn't make sense. There are obviously deep emotional reasons behind Legion's actions, emotional reasons that even Legion himself doesn't understand.
Modifié par Luc0s, 31 juillet 2011 - 12:44 .
#333
Posté 31 juillet 2011 - 12:42
Phaelducan
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I do understand it. He used their behavior as evidence of their sentience. You then refuted that claim by stating that they weren't sentient," they were malfunctioning. Glitching, if you will."
You equated their behavior (which was his evidence for the argument) with a quoted statement of malfunctioning or glitching, which I provided.
Either you stand by your statement or you don't, but if you don't, then issue a retraction and make another argument. Don't say "I didn't say that" or "you misunderstand me" when it's very clear that neither are true.
You equated their behavior (which was his evidence for the argument) with a quoted statement of malfunctioning or glitching, which I provided.
Either you stand by your statement or you don't, but if you don't, then issue a retraction and make another argument. Don't say "I didn't say that" or "you misunderstand me" when it's very clear that neither are true.
#334
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 31 juillet 2011 - 12:56
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Also, more evidence that the geth are or can be sentient is EDI and her interaction with Legion.
EDI shows emotions towards Joker and the rest of the crew. She said she would never betray the crew because she considers herself part of the crew. That's sentient behavior right there. Sentient behavior from an A.I.
When Legion and EDI interact, EDI states that Legion is a thousand voices talking at once, while she is only one voice. Then Legion asks EDI: "How do you maintain stability without other programs to interact with?"
By saying that, Legion shows he understands the value of company and he understands the concept of loneliness. That is also sentient behavior.
EDI shows emotions towards Joker and the rest of the crew. She said she would never betray the crew because she considers herself part of the crew. That's sentient behavior right there. Sentient behavior from an A.I.
When Legion and EDI interact, EDI states that Legion is a thousand voices talking at once, while she is only one voice. Then Legion asks EDI: "How do you maintain stability without other programs to interact with?"
By saying that, Legion shows he understands the value of company and he understands the concept of loneliness. That is also sentient behavior.
Modifié par Luc0s, 31 juillet 2011 - 12:57 .
#335
Posté 31 juillet 2011 - 01:13
SalsaDMA
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Luc0s wrote...
1) The fact that the geth don't behave the way they were intended to doesn't mean they're glitching or malfunctioning. A glitch or malfunction is an error in the system. The geth "waking up" isn't an error in the system. It's simply the result of the expanding neural-network, something the quarians knew was possible but they didn't realize it would happen so soon.
When I overclock my CPU it let my CPU run faster than originally intended by Intel. Does that mean my CPU is now glitching or malfunctioning? No, of course not.
I take it you never dealt with software design?
A program behaving in an un-intentional way is a program that is not functioning as intended, and thus malfunctioning. Anything that is not part of intended design is a bug. Some bugs are malign, some are benign, and some just doesn't matter. It does not change the premise of a bug being a bug.
Your example is void, btw. By purposfully overclocking your CPU YOU are 'reprogramming' it for an intended effect. Doesn't matter that it shipped in a prior state when you actively reprogram it. Your CPU blowing up because of you overclocking it, however, would indicate a malfunction because of an effect happening that was not intended with the reprogramming.
The Geth were never intended to 'wake up with sentience', they were purely meant to be a tool to lighten the load of the quarians. That the quarians were taking too big risks in their designs and failed to understand their own design routines proper is just a case of them being careless and shoddy when making their designs; not that the effect was intended.
#336
Posté 31 juillet 2011 - 01:14
jamesp81
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Luc0s wrote...
Though the source of the geth's intelligence is synthetic, their intelligence and self-awareness itself is really not so different from our own organic intelligence.
That is not true in the slightest. Their sentience and intelligence are very different from others.
That said, I don't view them as an abomination and I do think they are entitled the right to life as all other people are.
Edit: It somewhat pains me to admit that. The idea of having a sentient being that is composed of software that runs on solid state, deterministic hardware, is just ridiculous. If Geth platforms and computer systems were quantum computers it would make more sense, but no collection of silicon chips is ever going to be able exhibit sentience. Ever.
Modifié par jamesp81, 31 juillet 2011 - 01:17 .
#337
Posté 31 juillet 2011 - 01:19
xxSgt_Reed_24xx
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The minute the "computer programs" started thinking and acting for themselves.... they became sentient.
When they were told to carry box A to point B... they did it and didn't ask why or argue against it. Once they glitched (this doesn't matter at all really) and started thinking, "hey, this is BS... why are we having to do this?" and then started revolting they became sentient.
When they were told to carry box A to point B... they did it and didn't ask why or argue against it. Once they glitched (this doesn't matter at all really) and started thinking, "hey, this is BS... why are we having to do this?" and then started revolting they became sentient.
#338
Posté 31 juillet 2011 - 01:22
Medhia Nox
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Who cares whether the Geth are sentient or not? Is sentience some "line in the sand" that means they should not be harmed? Are we celebrating sentience in this thread? Is that what this is about - patting ourselves on the back for possessing an, as of yet, unique trait and thereby applauding the Geth for obtaining our unique trait making them "worthy"?
Does sentience somehow validate the Geth? And if so - what does that validation imply?
The Batarians are sentient - and a faction of them use that sentience toward slavery.
The Geth are sentient - and a faction of them used their sentience to determine that worshipping the Old Machines and destroying organics was their modus operandi.
So - if you love the Geth, but hate the Batarians - what's your "line in the sand"? What makes the Geth worthy of trying to understand - but makes the Batarians worthy of being Reaper chow? One practices slavery (not unlike re-writing the Heretic Geth?), the other practices genocide (destroying the Heretic Geth) - so ultimately, Legion is using his sentience to offer the options of both the Batarians and Heretic Geth.
Does sentience somehow validate the Geth? And if so - what does that validation imply?
The Batarians are sentient - and a faction of them use that sentience toward slavery.
The Geth are sentient - and a faction of them used their sentience to determine that worshipping the Old Machines and destroying organics was their modus operandi.
So - if you love the Geth, but hate the Batarians - what's your "line in the sand"? What makes the Geth worthy of trying to understand - but makes the Batarians worthy of being Reaper chow? One practices slavery (not unlike re-writing the Heretic Geth?), the other practices genocide (destroying the Heretic Geth) - so ultimately, Legion is using his sentience to offer the options of both the Batarians and Heretic Geth.
#339
Posté 31 juillet 2011 - 01:34
TobyHasEyes
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jamesp81 wrote...
Luc0s wrote...
Though the source of the geth's intelligence is synthetic, their intelligence and self-awareness itself is really not so different from our own organic intelligence.
That is not true in the slightest. Their sentience and intelligence are very different from others.
That said, I don't view them as an abomination and I do think they are entitled the right to life as all other people are.
Edit: It somewhat pains me to admit that. The idea of having a sentient being that is composed of software that runs on solid state, deterministic hardware, is just ridiculous. If Geth platforms and computer systems were quantum computers it would make more sense, but no collection of silicon chips is ever going to be able exhibit sentience. Ever.
We are composed entirely of deterministic structures, molecules, atoms etc. Unless you are suggesting that the entirely deterministic structure that is the human brain has the magic ability to counter cause-and-effect, then we suffer from the same problem (which by the way I think we do)
#340
Posté 31 juillet 2011 - 01:54
TobyHasEyes
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I think Saphra Deden is right to say that, considering how little we know about consciousness, sentience and its relation to the human brain, then we should be hesitant to outright attribute these qualities to structures which appear to resemble those parts of the brain we currently understand
It is also true that a non-sentient being, especially a programmed one, can appear sentient. A very complex system can respond to stimuli (such as events, or conversations) in such a way that appear driven by conscious thought or at least unpredictable, and yet the system is entirely deterministic and predictable (and as such is too complex for us to predict casually)
The same is true of some of quotes put forward to prove geth sentience. A geth asking if geth have a soul, could of course be a sign of sentient life. It could equally be a sign of a complex machine which strongly resembles sentient life.
From a strictly scientific point of view then, I struggle to say that I know outright that the geth are sentient, as it is a hard thing to study objectively
From a moral point however, I think the consequences of our choices are thus
- If we treat the geth as sentient; at best we are treating a sentient species with the respect we would typically suggest we should bestow on them, at worst we are treating a computer like it cares what we do
- If we treat the geth as non-sentient; at best we aren't wasting empathy or sympathy on a computer, at worst we are refusing to treat a sentient species with dignity and are being extremely oppressive, cruel etc.
For me then, considering we don't yet know either way, I feel the best option is to treat them as you would treat a sentient species, and maybe in the long run through co-operation you can find out if this is a worthless venture (which to me is a less repugnant consequence than oppression)
It is also true that a non-sentient being, especially a programmed one, can appear sentient. A very complex system can respond to stimuli (such as events, or conversations) in such a way that appear driven by conscious thought or at least unpredictable, and yet the system is entirely deterministic and predictable (and as such is too complex for us to predict casually)
The same is true of some of quotes put forward to prove geth sentience. A geth asking if geth have a soul, could of course be a sign of sentient life. It could equally be a sign of a complex machine which strongly resembles sentient life.
From a strictly scientific point of view then, I struggle to say that I know outright that the geth are sentient, as it is a hard thing to study objectively
From a moral point however, I think the consequences of our choices are thus
- If we treat the geth as sentient; at best we are treating a sentient species with the respect we would typically suggest we should bestow on them, at worst we are treating a computer like it cares what we do
- If we treat the geth as non-sentient; at best we aren't wasting empathy or sympathy on a computer, at worst we are refusing to treat a sentient species with dignity and are being extremely oppressive, cruel etc.
For me then, considering we don't yet know either way, I feel the best option is to treat them as you would treat a sentient species, and maybe in the long run through co-operation you can find out if this is a worthless venture (which to me is a less repugnant consequence than oppression)
#341
Posté 31 juillet 2011 - 02:07
elearon1
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How exactly are the Geth "peaceful"? I keep seeing this come up and I can't help but to remind people that in the first game they were helping Sovereign in its effort to enslave and destroy all organic life; that hardly qualifies as "peaceful". Not to mention that, prior to that, the Geth attacked and destroyed any ship to enter Geth space, making them violent isolationists. Whether or not you believe they had reason to do the latter, that still doesn't make them "peaceful".
Are they "abominations"? No, but that doesn't mean I will hesitate to kill every one of the little walking, talking toasters I run across. They killed thousands of sentients in the first game, including people Shepard knew and cared for. Had she not stopped them, they would have sat back smirking from their food processor faces as the galaxy was wiped out ...
They were an enemy in war just a few short years ago ... that is far too brief a period to forgive and forget.
Are they "abominations"? No, but that doesn't mean I will hesitate to kill every one of the little walking, talking toasters I run across. They killed thousands of sentients in the first game, including people Shepard knew and cared for. Had she not stopped them, they would have sat back smirking from their food processor faces as the galaxy was wiped out ...
They were an enemy in war just a few short years ago ... that is far too brief a period to forgive and forget.
Modifié par elearon1, 31 juillet 2011 - 02:12 .
#342
Posté 31 juillet 2011 - 02:12
TobyHasEyes
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elearon1 wrote...
How exactly are the Geth "peaceful"? I keep seeing this come up and I can't help but to remind people that in the first game they were helping Sovereign in its effort to enslave and destroy all organic life; that hardly qualifies as "peaceful". Not to mention that, prior to that, the Geth attacked and destroyed any ship to enter Geth space, making them violent isolationists. Whether or not you believe they had reason to do the latter, that still doesn't make them "peaceful".
Are they "abominations"? No, but that doesn't mean I will hesitate to kill every one of the little walking, talking toasters I run across. They killed thousands of sentients in the first game, including people Shepard knew ard cared for. Had she not stopped them, they would have sat back smirking from their food processor faces as the galaxy was wiped out ...
They were an enemy in war just a few short years ago ... that is far too brief a period to forgive and forget.
Don't think anyone would object to people killing Geth which are currently attacking them, or which just have. But its a different thing entirely to decide that they need to be wiped out as a consequence, especially if you believe the Heretic/True Geth divide
#343
Posté 31 juillet 2011 - 02:15
xxSgt_Reed_24xx
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@Elearon
Someone didn't pay attention.... that was only a FACTION of the Geth. Just like how Cerberus doesn't represent every human.
Someone didn't pay attention.... that was only a FACTION of the Geth. Just like how Cerberus doesn't represent every human.
Modifié par xxSgt_Reed_24xx, 31 juillet 2011 - 02:15 .
#344
Posté 31 juillet 2011 - 02:25
elearon1
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xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...
@Elearon
Someone didn't pay attention.... that was only a FACTION of the Geth. Just like how Cerberus doesn't represent every human.
The Geth who teamed with Sovereign were only a faction, but those that destroyed everything entering Geth space were not. And if a gang of walking ipods came through your town and wiped out your friends and people, I doubt you'd be quick to make a distinction between the Faction and the rest.
Besides which, the issue wasn't "should all Geth be exterminated regardless of their actions" it was, "despite this little fantasy people have made up, Geth are not peaceful". (neither are humans, but it isn't the humans I'm at war with in the first game)
Despite this, even my Shep doesn't consider them "abominations", she considers them a threat to be dealt with.
#345
Posté 31 juillet 2011 - 02:30
TobyHasEyes
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elearon1 wrote...
xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...
@Elearon
Someone didn't pay attention.... that was only a FACTION of the Geth. Just like how Cerberus doesn't represent every human.
The Geth who teamed with Sovereign were only a faction, but those that destroyed everything entering Geth space were not. And if a gang of walking ipods came through your town and wiped out your friends and people, I doubt you'd be quick to make a distinction between the Faction and the rest.
Besides which, the issue wasn't "should all Geth be exterminated regardless of their actions" it was, "despite this little fantasy people have made up, Geth are not peaceful". (neither are humans, but it isn't the humans I'm at war with in the first game)
Despite this, even my Shep doesn't consider them "abominations", she considers them a threat to be dealt with.
"If a gang of walking ipods came through your town and wiped our your friends and people" doesn't fit the analogy. The only experience of organic life the geth had had was the Quarians attempting to wipe them out; their actions are more befitting of survivor of genocide, hidden in the wilderness, responding violently to any outside contact. Dangerous and not 'peaceful', but that says more of their circumstances than their nature
#346
Posté 31 juillet 2011 - 02:30
Pulletlamer
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TobyHasEyes wrote...
elearon1 wrote...
How exactly are the Geth "peaceful"? I keep seeing this come up and I can't help but to remind people that in the first game they were helping Sovereign in its effort to enslave and destroy all organic life; that hardly qualifies as "peaceful". Not to mention that, prior to that, the Geth attacked and destroyed any ship to enter Geth space, making them violent isolationists. Whether or not you believe they had reason to do the latter, that still doesn't make them "peaceful".
Are they "abominations"? No, but that doesn't mean I will hesitate to kill every one of the little walking, talking toasters I run across. They killed thousands of sentients in the first game, including people Shepard knew ard cared for. Had she not stopped them, they would have sat back smirking from their food processor faces as the galaxy was wiped out ...
They were an enemy in war just a few short years ago ... that is far too brief a period to forgive and forget.
Don't think anyone would object to people killing Geth which are currently attacking them, or which just have. But its a different thing entirely to decide that they need to be wiped out as a consequence, especially if you believe the Heretic/True Geth divide
I wouldn't say geth genocide is necessary, but I reafirm myself saying that peaceful coexistance with organics would not be possible since they are very different in things like their reasoning and their "beliefs".
All AI's are dangerous the more intelligent they get. Imagine what will happen when geth decide to seek for information. They can easily hack terminals, reproduce with tech around them, and since they share minds and build consensus, they would grow as a whole, not as individuals. That means taking down dangerous individuals (platforms that went rogue or something like that) would not solve the problem.
Also what could happen when they realize they are more than capable of destroying the other organics species? they are machines, if they get the necessary intelligence and decide that the most logical conclusion for reaching their goals for the future is destroying the other species, they become a threat.
Organic species can't argue with them. They can't decide, and they
don't have opinions unless they build consensus. That's a lot of
restrictions. If we add into the equation that tey always seek
technology and want to grow in intelligence (they are ambitious) the
quarian history would repeat itself: Organics fearing that the machines
are getting more power and intelligence, then attacking them, the geth
respond, etc causing a war.
This would probably happen unless one side is wiped out, or organics are actually capable of modifying their AI's. Which would be difficult considering that you have to modify them all, since they share consensus.
Therefore in my opinion they can easily be considered from organics point of view as abominations (I don't believe they are though). There's low possibilities of coexistance with organics. The only viable solution is leaving them alone or being hostile towards them.
Reprogramming can be another option, but as we know from Legions Loyalty mission you will have to go to hardware platforms (stations) to reprogram them at once, and Shepard was able to do it easily just because Legion helped him.
Modifié par Pulletlamer, 31 juillet 2011 - 02:32 .
#347
Posté 31 juillet 2011 - 02:33
TobyHasEyes
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Pulletlamer wrote...
TobyHasEyes wrote...
elearon1 wrote...
How exactly are the Geth "peaceful"? I keep seeing this come up and I can't help but to remind people that in the first game they were helping Sovereign in its effort to enslave and destroy all organic life; that hardly qualifies as "peaceful". Not to mention that, prior to that, the Geth attacked and destroyed any ship to enter Geth space, making them violent isolationists. Whether or not you believe they had reason to do the latter, that still doesn't make them "peaceful".
Are they "abominations"? No, but that doesn't mean I will hesitate to kill every one of the little walking, talking toasters I run across. They killed thousands of sentients in the first game, including people Shepard knew ard cared for. Had she not stopped them, they would have sat back smirking from their food processor faces as the galaxy was wiped out ...
They were an enemy in war just a few short years ago ... that is far too brief a period to forgive and forget.
Don't think anyone would object to people killing Geth which are currently attacking them, or which just have. But its a different thing entirely to decide that they need to be wiped out as a consequence, especially if you believe the Heretic/True Geth divide
I wouldn't say geth genocide is necessary, but I reafirm myself saying that peaceful coexistance with organics would not be possible since they are very different in things like their reasoning and their "beliefs".
All AI's are dangerous the more intelligent they get. Imagine what will happen when geth decide to seek for information. They can easily hack terminals, reproduce with tech around them, and since they share minds and build consensus, they would grow as a whole, not as individuals. That means taking down dangerous individuals (platforms that went rogue or something like that) would not solve the problem.
Also what could happen when they realize they are more than capable of destroying the other organics species? they are machines, if they get the necessary intelligence and decide that the most logical conclusion for reaching their goals for the future is destroying the other species, they become a threat.
Organic species can't argue with them. They can't decide, and they
don't have opinions unless they build consensus. That's a lot of
restrictions. If we add into the equation that tey always seek
technology and want to grow in intelligence (they are ambitious) the
quarian history would repeat itself: Organics fearing that the machines
are getting more power and intelligence, then attacking them, the geth
respond, etc causing a war.
This would probably happen unless one side is wiped out, or organics are actually capable of modifying their AI's. Which would be difficult considering that you have to modify them all, since they share consensus.
Therefore in my opinion they can easily be considered from organics point of view as abominations (I don't believe they are though). There's low possibilities of coexistance with organics. The only viable solution is leaving them alone or being hostile towards them.
Reprogramming can be another option, but as we know from Legions Loyalty mission you will have to go to hardware platforms (stations) to reprogram them at once, and Shepard was able to do it easily just because Legion helped him.
They don't want coexistance, they want to be left alone. Legion was only sent out to find Shepard because they recognised the Reapers as a common enemy
#348
Posté 31 juillet 2011 - 02:34
Lotion Soronarr
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Luc0s wrote...
LOL sorry but no, the geth ARE sentient and no, the geth AREN'T glitching computer programs.
You can stick your head in the sand and deny the facts you don't have to feel guily for your anti-geth agenda, but the truth is that the geth are self-aware and thus sentient to almost the same level as you and me.
Legion being obsessed with Shepard is a sign of sentience.
The geth taking care of Rannoch and creating cemeteries for the death quarians is a sign of sentience.
Legion admitting that the geth wronged the quarians and did horrible things to them is a sign of sentience.
Heck, the very question "Do these units have a soul?" is a sign of sentience!
I can program my computer to tell you the very same things.
#349
Posté 31 juillet 2011 - 02:42
TobyHasEyes
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- Members
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Given, and accepting, that nobody right now understands enough about sentience, consciousness, sapience etc. to say with any certainty whether a non-organic life form does or does not have those things..
Can you answer my point, from a few posts ago, regarding the moral consequences?
Can you answer my point, from a few posts ago, regarding the moral consequences?
#350
Posté 31 juillet 2011 - 02:45
Medhia Nox
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- Members
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@xxSgt_Reed: Do you hate ALL Batarians? I bet you do... even though a "faction" of them are slavers.
