677 réponses à ce sujet

[Pulletlamer]

They're not abominations, but they're not organic beings. What I mean with that is that even they are intelligent, they are still machines and should be considered as those. They were built with a purpose (servitude) and we could consider they wanted to build a world for themselves, they didn't want to serve, so that's why they rebelled and fought against the quarians.

That said, they're not capable of reasoning like a human or another organic being does, their only reasoning it's mathematical and logical. Therefore they are not very capable of making decisions.

That usually leads into problems with coexistance with other species, specially if they are organic. Since they cannot decide what it's best besides objectivity, they would probably cause havoc.
Imagine a geth police trying to resolve a murder case. At the least oportunity he saw a proof and calculated that a subject was X% capable of having commited that murder, he will arrest, or kill him, maybe choosing the wrong person (probabilities can fail, and they often do).

Have into account that you can reprogram them (In the game it is said it's hard but as the technology of the ME universe advances there will be options, so we could consider that as a threat) and make them do what you want, since they are machines and as long as you program them to do so, they can't consider another things. ( Like in the movie I am Robot, etc)

And lastly, having into account the geth's nature of always searching ways of becoming more intelligent, they would actually end up searching information, hacking terminals everywhere and becoming even more intelligent and more powerful and since they share minds and build consensus they will all grow up in intelligence, as a whole not individually, to a point were organics would fear them and the whole Quarian history could repeat itself like an infinite bucle. No matter what you try to do they will always be geth.

As long as you leave one geth alive they will reproduce (they only need technology around to reproduce, as shown in the Alarei) and try to find more information and grow in intelligence, since that is their nature. Keep in mind geth are infinite, they can't "die" since they share minds, as long as there's one geth, they are still alive.

Also the geth individuallistically talking can't die from old age or natural causes since they are machines and also have the innate ability of being capable of repairing themselves.

So if we combine all those things the most probable thing is they may become like rogue AI's. Not saying they deserve genocide but they are not very capable of coexisting with other species and they can be a threat, they can (although they're not in my opinion) easily be considered as abominations.

That's my thoughts on the subject.

Modifié par Pulletlamer, 30 juillet 2011 - 09:35 .

[Quole]

sure ynot

[Mykel54]

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

Why would you consider Geth as abomination?
They are one of the most intelligent and peacefull species in ME universe.

Peaceful you say? Tell that to the billions of quarians that died on Rannoch, or to the colonists converted into husks of Eden Prime, or to the people of the Citadel. Also tell that to Kaidan or Ashley. Their "species" (if you want to call them that) is geth, it doesn´t matter if they have a religious/political schism. The orthodox geth are as much in fault for the ME1 events as the heretics, they just pretend not to have any responsibility.

[AngelicMachinery]

Mykel54 wrote...

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

Why would you consider Geth as abomination?
They are one of the most intelligent and peacefull species in ME universe.

Peaceful you say? Tell that to the billions of quarians that died on Rannoch, or to the colonists converted into husks of Eden Prime, or to the people of the Citadel. Also tell that to Kaidan or Ashley. Their "species" (if you want to call them that) is geth, it doesn´t matter if they have a religious/political schism. The orthodox geth are as much in fault for the ME1 events as the heretics, they just pretend not to have any responsibility.

So, every turian alive is at fault for the first contact war?  Everyone who's country is at war is part of it even if they are admantly against it?  Etc.

[Medhia Nox]

Seeing as I put more value over a living organism than I do the nebulous concept of what is "sapient" - I do not consider the Geth's existence to be of any intrinsic value. Certainly not any more than a cactus, a dung beetle, or a chimpanzee.

Human value - to me - does not lie in the nature of our brains. I do not perceive humanity to be any more significant than said "cactus, dung beetle, chimpanzee" - and therefore, since the Geth do not qualify as a biological organism - their potential imitation of intelligence does not bring me to the conclusion that blowing up a Geth would be of the same value as killing a man (or crushing a cactus, dung beetle, or chimpanzee).

"Sapients" actually seems quite detrimental to the other 5 million animal and 250,000 plant species on our planet.

That being said - I have no reason to go out of my way to destroy the Geth. I don't destroy computers - and they imitate intelligence in every facet of their actions.

Throwing my computer on the ground would not give me any pause as to whether it was "wrong" - it would be only a matter of - "is there a reason to?"

[Soccer FeverMan]

Nah they're not abominations. I mean scientist don't have a set definition for what life is.

[eternalnightmare13]

 They're sentient, and even have some type of cultural - which is evident if you talk to Legion in depth.  Husks, Collectors, and other things that are thrown at you in ME2 - those are you're abominations.

To play the devil's advocate, you could easily call Shepard in ME2 an abomination.  The fact he/she came back to life is far more of an abomination to Nature, God, Allah, Buddha, The Goddess or whomever/whatever someone may believe in.

[CRISIS1717]

 Reminds me of the scene from Full Metal Alchemist. 

Edward: Water, 35 litres. Carbon, 20kg. Ammonia, 4 litres. Lime, 1.5kg. Phosperus, 800g. Salt, 250 g. Niter, 100g. Sulphur, 80g. Fluorine, 7.5g. Iron, 5g. Silicon 3g. And fifteen other elements. Those are the elements to make an average adult human body. You can buy these elemental ingredients at the market with the pocket money of a child. Humans are made so cheaply. 

Geth may be made cheaply but saying they are just technology doesn't really do the Geth justice. 

The Quarians made a mistake, from the start they should have accepted the Geth as equals and created a mutually beneficial arrangment. 

It's not just fear that would have to be overcome though, I'm sure many would find it difficult to accept a sentient machine as an equal. 

[Pulletlamer]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

So, every turian alive is at fault for the first contact war?  Everyone who's country is at war is part of it even if they are admantly against it?  Etc.

You can't compare geth and turians. Ones are machines and they only form of reasoning is logical, while the others are capable of taking decisions and accepting some of them were errors (like the FCW).

No matter what you try to argue with a geth or what you try to do, they always do the most logical solution and they are always right in their mind, since they don't know anything more than that logic. They're not capable of making mistakes in their logic.

Sure geth are maybe peaceful but as I said they are ambitious and they want to grow in intelligence, not realizing they can be a threat to other lifeforms and when they start becoming a threat the whole quarian history repeats itself.

[Wereparrot]

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

Why would you consider Geth as abomination?
They are one of the most intelligent and peacefull species in ME universe.

I'll say what I said on the other thread, although I've asked for the relevant posts from that thread to be merged:

The geth are arguably abominations because they are not the creation of a divine being or the product of natural evolution; it really doesn't matter which you believe in. Rather, the geth were the creation of quarian pride and, being machines, were created by machines themselves, and thus are nothing more than corrupted metal. They are not truely alive because they have no respiratory system, no emotions and they do not die of natural disease, but rather they are killed, shut down or perish from a computer virus that no truly living being can suffer from; they do not sleep or hibernate, but shut down their systems in a way completely alien to organic species.

They are not natural by any definition.

[Soccer FeverMan]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Some of the people on the other topic argued that the geth are an abomination because they are unnatural. "The geth are not truly alive" was their argument. What do you guys have to say about that?

I'm sure most of them are quarian/tali fanatics,  that seems to be the way things work.

Yeah that's usually the case, there was an argument between tali/quarian fanatics vs. others about if geth are alive and they got their asses handed to them, and just bailed out by not responding.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Nyoka wrote...

^ True artificial intelligence is impossible to achieve in the current state of affairs, but that's why the genre is called science-fiction. The fiction part is what allows you to go beyond this pesky reality into a world of really interesting and imaginary things.

There's no way to actually test for it anyway.

I still don't belive in it, and neither does my Shep. Geth have as much worth as a toaster.

[Someone With Mass]

Hey, don't call my bro-bot an abomination.

[AngelicMachinery]

Pulletlamer wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

So, every turian alive is at fault for the first contact war?  Everyone who's country is at war is part of it even if they are admantly against it?  Etc.

You can't compare geth and turians. Ones are machines and they only form of reasoning is logical, while the others are capable of taking decisions and accepting some of them were errors (like the FCW).

No matter what you try to argue with a geth or what you try to do, they always do the most logical solution and they are always right in their mind, since they don't know anything more than that logic. They're not capable of making mistakes in their logic.

Sure geth are maybe peaceful but as I said they are ambitious and they want to grow in intelligence, not realizing they can be a threat to other lifeforms and when they start becoming a threat the whole quarian history repeats itself.

Seriously?  Mistakes can be made,  the geth themselves have proven that they are capable of indesciion and the like simply through Legion's loyality mission alone.  It proves that the group aren't the borg,  but instead a mechanical hive organism made up of different oppinions based on the experince that each individual have had. 

[Wereparrot]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Some of the people on the other topic argued that the geth are an abomination because they are unnatural. "The geth are not truly alive" was their argument. What do you guys have to say about that?

I'm sure most of them are quarian/tali fanatics,  that seems to be the way things work.

Oh no; for the record the quarians are one of my least favourite species. 

[marshalleck]

Ryzaki wrote...

Please don't start a religious war. 

But that is what it boils down to. A contemporary organic being can lay no claim to any specific underlying order or plan for the universe, so they invent a higher power which is a vessel for their belief, and for which they can claim to speak. And thus pass judgement on others. That is the only basis for calling geth an abomination.

[Soccer FeverMan]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

 They're sentient, and even have some type of cultural - which is evident if you talk to Legion in depth.  Husks, Collectors, and other things that are thrown at you in ME2 - those are you're abominations.

To play the devil's advocate, you could easily call Shepard in ME2 an abomination.  The fact he/she came back to life is far more of an abomination to Nature, God, Allah, Buddha, The Goddess or whomever/whatever someone may believe in.

That argument can only be responded by someone who does believe in a greater power, and who exactly can decide what violates the laws of nature (are there even any laws?). As an agnostic i find Shepard's resurrection as an amazing leap in medical science, especially if done in real life.

[Mykel54]

Luc0s wrote...

Mykel54 wrote...

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

Why would you consider Geth as abomination?
They are one of the most intelligent and peacefull species in ME universe.

Peaceful you say? Tell that to the billions of quarians that died on Rannoch, or to the colonists converted into husks of Eden Prime, or to the people of the Citadel. Also tell that to Kaidan or Ashley. Their "species" (if you want to call them that) is geth, it doesn´t matter if they have a religious/political schism. The orthodox geth are as much in fault for the ME1 events as the heretics, they just pretend not to have any responsibility.

Yeah sure, just like all Muslims are terrorists, all Christians are dumb creationists and all Budhdists are spineless pacifists, right?

Seriously, your leap of "logic" really doesn't make any sense. How can you blame the "orthodox geth" for what the "heretics" did? That's just unreasonable!

It´s not the same. The geth heretics wanted to join the reapers and destroy organics, and the orthodox allowed them to leave peacefully. If the orthodox geth truly cared about their peaceful coexistence with organics, they would have taken steps to stop the heretics.

They are complices, because they knew what would happen and they allowed it. The orthodox geth don´t care about organics at all, they would rather see milions of death organics that deal with the small part of their society that wanted to join the reapers and go on killing organics.

If the orthodox geth were truly concerned about peace with organics, they would have taken steps to stop the heretics from giving all geth a bad image, and more important, prevent them for starting a war that will destroy any chance of coexistence.

Modifié par Mykel54, 30 juillet 2011 - 09:49 .

[Pulletlamer]

AngelicMachinery wrote...


Seriously?  Mistakes can be made,  the geth themselves have proven that they are capable of indesciion and the like simply through Legion's loyality mission alone.  It proves that the group aren't the borg,  but instead a mechanical hive organism made up of different oppinions based on the experince that each individual have had. 

Each software platform (as legion says, I believe) builds consensus with every other platform, and each one has an "opinion" yes, but they're not capable of deciding what's best. Even at the end of the mission Legion leaves the heretics fate to Shepard because even though reprogramation was the "winning" choice it only was over for a little margin. That means that they will always or almost always have draws when building consensus, thus reducing it's uselfulness in making decisions greatly, since the logical conclusion can be more than one in some cases.

Software platforms alone don't have an opinion. Geth are one. Is when they build consensus when they're able to decide. A platform individual is not more capable of taking decisions on it's own than a blind man without his dog to guide him.

Modifié par Pulletlamer, 30 juillet 2011 - 09:53 .

[Wereparrot]

marshalleck wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Please don't start a religious war. 

But that is what it boils down to. A contemporary organic being can lay no claim to any specific underlying order or plan for the universe, so they invent a higher power which is a vessel for their belief, and for which they can claim to speak. And thus pass judgement on others. That is the only basis for calling geth an abomination.

NO. I have balanced out my arguments about the geth from both a creationist and religious viewpoint becuse I anticipated this sort of post; if you cannot be similarly impartial then please do not post; we do not want this thread to get locked for dissolving into a completely unneccessary flame war.