51 réponses à ce sujet

[Protodega]

So, we all know Kirkwall is majorly screwed up as far as it's relation to the fade goes. Heightened rates of blood magic, demons hidden in the sewers and all that. In Legacy, a theory is put forth that Corypheus is somehow involved in this phenomena.  I don't think it's his dreaming that is responsible, however, given some other little tidbits we're given. The Band of Three talk of another purpose behind Kirkwall, other than being a simple slaving hub. They talk of thousands of slaves sacrificed beneath the streets of Kirkwall, blood spilled in such gouts that it stained the stone red. This, along with the revelation that the fade was indeed breached by the Magisters, and the lingering remnants of... something hanging in the air. Was Kirkwall the place where the Magisters entered the Black City? Such a spell would certainly leave remnants of power, likely for millennia after it's occurrence. Somewhat like nuclear fallout. Further, the dwarves' argument to the Chantry's explanation is that the darkspawn came from beneath. Given all we know, is it a leap to assume Kirkwall as the staging point of the Magisters' bid to seize the heavens? 

[Macropodmum]

It does seem to be the general consensus that Kirkwll is in a large part involved in the magisters entry into the city.

[whykikyouwhy]

Well, it's been referred to as a Hellmouth. And if that BtVS parallel is on point, then it's not the only Hellmouth. Is it documented that the magisters entered the Golden-to-Black City together? What if they framed their assault from 5 different points in Thedas?

EDIT - Five being very pentagram-esque, and all.

Modifié par whykikyouwhy, 31 juillet 2011 - 03:07 .

[Macropodmum]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Well, it's been referred to as a Hellmouth. And if that BtVS parallel is on point, then it's not the only Hellmouth. Is it documented that the magisters entered the Golden-to-Black City together? What if they framed their assault from 5 different points in Thedas?

EDIT - Five being very pentagram-esque, and all.

That would be interesting, have to wonder if that was the case if there will be DLC dealing with the other 4 spots

[whykikyouwhy]

Probably not DLC tied to DA2. If we go with the theory that the Architect was a magister (big if, since there is a lot of speculation still), then that's already one magister and one entry point, and one game. DA2 has Corypheus and another entry point with Kirkwall - so that's two. Not saying that there will be three more games, but the possible entry points-magisters would probably be staggered out.

Modifié par whykikyouwhy, 31 juillet 2011 - 03:59 .

[jlb524]

Am I the only one that thinks there is a Golden and a Black City that are two separate entities?

I speculate that the Black City is located underground some where and it's obviously filled with this negative magical 'taint' energy. Perhaps the magisters did enter the Deep Roads there and it's located somewhere underneath Kirkwall.

[whykikyouwhy]

jlb524 wrote...

Am I the only one that thinks there is a Golden and a Black City that are two separate entities?

I speculate that the Black City is located underground some where and it's obviously filled with this negative magical 'taint' energy. Perhaps the magisters did enter the Deep Roads there and it's located somewhere underneath Kirkwall.

So are you speculating that the intention of the magisters was to enter the Black City itself, or that they thought they were entering the Golden, but went through the wrong door/threshold?

[jlb524]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Am I the only one that thinks there is a Golden and a Black City that are two separate entities?

I speculate that the Black City is located underground some where and it's obviously filled with this negative magical 'taint' energy. Perhaps the magisters did enter the Deep Roads there and it's located somewhere underneath Kirkwall.

So are you speculating that the intention of the magisters was to enter the Black City itself, or that they thought they were entering the Golden, but went through the wrong door/threshold?

I speculate that they thought they were entering the right city but ended up in the other one...the Black one that had the taint and not the 'Light'.

I also think that the eluvian Merrill has is a link to the Black City (this has been brought up before) while I think the one Morrigan used links to the Golden City. 

[whykikyouwhy]

Mash Mashington wrote...

Iiii think both Golden and Black city is Arlathan. It became "black" when Tevinters crushed it underground, started tainting things from underneath and probably had all sorts of creepers crawling around. Then some survived entity of that Arlathan called to the magisters (telling them the city was golden of course) and they perhaps tried to enter it through the Fade, while their best friends dwarves tried to dig it out, thus discovering the taint.

OR the first magisters who crushed the city underground put some protections on it to contain toxic wastes, but those who tried to unlock it broke this containment field and set the taint free.

That's my dumbest theory so far, huzzah

Nothing wrong with that theory at all.

they should've knocked, arrogant bastards

But what would they have said? "Candygram?" "Oh hai, we're here to take all of your magics and leave you with a busted door?" Would have been a bit awkward.

They should have Google-mappe the address.

Modifié par whykikyouwhy, 31 juillet 2011 - 04:21 .

[whykikyouwhy]

some wretched double posting

Modifié par whykikyouwhy, 31 juillet 2011 - 04:22 .

[whykikyouwhy]

Mash Mashington wrote...

They would've been asked for password

Which as everybody knows is "Sausage"

Nobody would've died

Terrible misunderstanding

But everyone knows the best sausage is in Orlais. Those Tevinter types wouldn't have had sausage on the brain.

But yes. A terrible misunderstanding. So many deaths - all for sausage.

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

I fear the coming days will be worse, once Sten spreads the Chant of the Cookie among his people.

[jlb524]

Mash Mashington wrote...

Secret Chantry documents no doubt call it The Sausage War

The Magic Sausage War

They have to make sure they blame mages in there somewhere.

[whykikyouwhy]

jlb524 wrote...
I speculate that they thought they were entering the right city but ended up in the other one...the Black one that had the taint and not the 'Light'.

I also think that the eluvian Merrill has is a link to the Black City (this has been brought up before) while I think the one Morrigan used links to the Golden City. 

I never had a good handle on the Eluvian. Clearly it can be used as a portal, as Morrigan does in Witch Hunt, but Merrill makes mention of it being for communication and doesn't refer to anything else (unless I missed some dialogue).

Both Morrigan and Merrill obtained their Eluvians in Fereldan proper though. So does that mean that Kirkwall may have had an Eluvian somewhere? (if Kirkwall was on such door/gateway to one of the cities)

[whykikyouwhy]

jlb524 wrote...

Mash Mashington wrote...

Secret Chantry documents no doubt call it The Sausage War

The Magic Sausage War

They have to make sure they blame mages in there somewhere.

There better be a codex entry on this in the next DLC or full game. You stumble upon random loot of "a half-eaten brautwurst" and ding! codex blurb on the Magic Sausage War.

[jlb524]

whykikyouwhy wrote...
I never had a good handle on the Eluvian. Clearly it can be used as a portal, as Morrigan does in Witch Hunt, but Merrill makes mention of it being for communication and doesn't refer to anything else (unless I missed some dialogue).

Both Morrigan and Merrill obtained their Eluvians in Fereldan proper though. So does that mean that Kirkwall may have had an Eluvian somewhere? (if Kirkwall was on such door/gateway to one of the cities)

Merrill doesn't know it's a portal.  She only thinks of it as a communication thingy.  She doesn't have access to knowledge Morrigan had (which includes that one Dalish text she stole and possibly Flemeth's real grimoire).   But we know from playing the Dalish mage origin that Tamlen could see a black city in the eluvian and it was tainted, which is why most think that it linked to The Black City. 

I would imagine that there are more of them around.  The elves of old probably used them as both a communication device and a portal linking to different places in Ferelden/Thedas.  Perhaps their function depended on the magic used to activate it?  Or the fact that they acted as a portal facilitated communication across a long distance? 

Modifié par jlb524, 31 juillet 2011 - 04:49 .

[ReiSilver]

jlb524 wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...
I never had a good handle on the Eluvian. Clearly it can be used as a portal, as Morrigan does in Witch Hunt, but Merrill makes mention of it being for communication and doesn't refer to anything else (unless I missed some dialogue).

Both Morrigan and Merrill obtained their Eluvians in Fereldan proper though. So does that mean that Kirkwall may have had an Eluvian somewhere? (if Kirkwall was on such door/gateway to one of the cities)

Merrill doesn't know it's a portal.  She only thinks of it as a communication thingy.  She doesn't have access to knowledge Morrigan had (which includes that one Dalish text she stole and possibly Flemeth's real grimoire).   But we know from playing the Dalish mage origin that Tamlen could see a black city in the eluvian and it was tainted, which is why most think that it linked to The Black City. 

I would imagine that there are more of them around.  The elves of old probably used them as both a communication device and a portal linking to different places in Ferelden/Thedas.  Perhaps their function depended on the magic used to activate it?  Or the fact that they acted as a portal facilitated communication across a long distance? 

I'm not sure the city Tamlen saw in the Eluvian is the black city... it really could be anything: all he says is a 'city, underground' and it's said you can see the black city from anywhere in the fade: in DAO if you look around you can see distant floating fortress/city. (personally I think the city he saw was either where Morrigan went or sunken Arlathan)

I also always thought Kirkwall seemed like the Thedas equivalent of Silent Hill

[jlb524]

ReiSilver wrote...

I'm not sure the city Tamlen saw in the Eluvian is the black city... it really could be anything: all he says is a 'city, underground'

Then he says "And...there's a great blackness..."

Then they all get tainted and stuff.

[jlb524]

Mash Mashington wrote...

Iiii think both Golden and Black city is Arlathan. It became "black" when Tevinters crushed it underground, started tainting things from underneath and probably had all sorts of creepers crawling around. Then some survived entity of that Arlathan called to the magisters (telling them the city was golden of course) and they perhaps tried to enter it through the Fade, while their best friends dwarves tried to dig it out, thus discovering the taint.

I think that both the Golden and Black city are separate parts of Arlathan. The Black City could have come about b/c of the Tevinters.

If you go by elven lore, I think that the Golden City is where the Creators were imprisoned and the Black City where the Forgotten Ones were imprisoned (or 'The Old Gods', whatever you call them) by Fen'Harel.

Back in the elven day, they were just cities (which is why there are eluvians linking to them) but now they hold more power...the Golden City has the power of the gods ('the light') while the Black City now contains the 'bad gods' that have tainted that city.  Perhaps Dumat called to Corypheus and the Magisters in the hopes they could free them somehow?  *of course, that backfired as they became tainted*

If Flemeth is Fen'Harel (as some think) it would make sense that she wouldn't want these eluvians discovered...she doesn't want her secret known and her plans undone.  

But this is probably wrong and I'm crazy XD

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Interesting theories on the Eluvians. Maybe each eluvian is used for different skills and such. Maybe some of them are communication devices. Maybe some are portals or doorways somewhere else as Morrigan suggested. Finn was under the impression they were also used to communicate.

We know in the Dalish Elf story in DAO, that Duncan realized that the mirror was tainted and darkspawn could get through it. We know that Morrigan (Warden) also went through one. In Merrill's mirror the one that Duncan saw was tainted, the demon on the other side was trying to come through into the living world. Which also suggests that Merrill and Duncan's mirror is somehow connected to the fade.

So the evidence so far does point to them being portal devices. I'm still not ruling out that they could be communication devices as well. Just like some golems seem to do different things when they are created. Some seem to be golems who are smiths, other Golems defenders or a battle golems like Shale, and let's not forget the Nexus Golem who sold things in the deep roads.

I don't think it's a stretch to think that different eluvians might do different things. We still don't know yet.

[nitefyre410]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Well, it's been referred to as a Hellmouth. And if that BtVS parallel is on point, then it's not the only Hellmouth. Is it documented that the magisters entered the Golden-to-Black City together? What if they framed their assault from 5 different points in Thedas?

EDIT - Five being very pentagram-esque, and all.

    

That would actually be pretty cool and make alot of the considering that it take a lot of Lyruim or blood to  pull the power need  enter the City.  Kirkwall had a large amount of the slaves there to work the quarries and being move in and out of the city itself


Shades of the  Full  Metal Alchemtist:Brotherhood  there