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[Halfdan The Menace]

Arcian wrote...

ModestmeNTaLmogul wrote...

LTiberious wrote...

Every sentient species has a religion.

You sure? usually high-tech beings don't have religions, I bet they don't even understand the word "religion".

That's not what I've seen. Usually in fiction there's a religious "dark age" between low-tech and high-tech - to compare to our society, we're just barely entering that dark age, and the ME socities are just at the immediate beginning of it. Once societies become technological enough to understand the explore the underlying complexity of the universe, they tend to regain that religious belief without all the metaphorical junk - not belief in a god or miracles, mind you, but belief in the seemingly intelligent mechanisms and wonders of existence itself and how everything, from a atomic level to a cosmological, just seems to fall perfectly into place to create systematic order, stability and progress.

Of course, the technological requirement for that is usually at or near Time Lord levels. Which not even the Reapers are at, considering they (presumably) haven't expanded beyond their own galaxy.

Prominent science fiction themes that are of particular significance from a religious perspective are technology, specifically technology that challenges traditional definitions of the human being, and visions of the future. Religions have ambiguous and complex relationships with technology. Often, religions are cautious or resistant to technology, preferring to advocate simple and natural living. One somewhat extreme example of this is the lifestyles of traditional Amish communities that even today continue to keep horse-drawn buggies as their primary means of local transportation. Yet, inevitably, practitioners of religions must keep up with technological advancement unless they are to drop out of mainstream society.

Obviously, a lot of science fiction deals with advanced technology; it may even be the original purpose and central theme of the science fiction genre. While some science fiction presumes the world of spaceships as beneficial to humanity, a lot of science fiction raises questions similar to those raised by religions regarding technology. Going back at least as far as Mary Shelley’s “Frankenstein,” the theme of science gone awry emerges. Dr. Frankenstein embodies the “mad scientist” who tries to “play God” by re-igniting life into a humanoid patchwork of dead body parts, ending up creating the infamously uncontrollable and destructive monster. Science and technology spiral out of control in various ways in the “Terminator” franchise, “I, Robot,” “Jurassic Park,” and “Rise of the Planet of the Apes” movie, to name just a few.

Beyond the impact of technology on our lifestyles and spiritual practices, technology presents ethical challenges that religions have never taken a position on simply because certain questions were never raised until the technology came into existence. This is particularly true of bioethics. The movie “Gattaca” takes place in a future when parents will be able to choose the best genetic qualities possible for their children before they are born. On the one hand, we do not know whether such technology imagined in science fiction will actually become reality; on the other, a lot of the technology we have today exceeds the technology imagined by the most creative science fiction authors of the past. How to interact with technology of our present and quickly approaching future is a question for all of us, including those who practice a religion for guidance in life. I have found that, in contrast to the perception of science fiction as escapist fantasy literature, much of it can be used to reflect upon and discuss increasingly pertinent topics in today’s reality.

Modifié par ModestmeNTaLmogul, 20 janvier 2012 - 07:23 .

[Nissun]

Can we please stop discussing religion and go back to anything Prothy related? Pleeeeease?

Like what did the protheans eat, or wear, if anything at all? Why did the statues on Ilos look so weird? Who do you think they represented? If most of the architecture presumed to be Prothean is actually older than them, can we use it to assume things about their culture? Did the Thorian exist in Prothean times? How do you think Feros looked in its glorious days?

There are so many things to discuss. I would hate for this thread to snowball into theories about alien religions. Don't misunderstand me, it's an interesting topic. But come on...

[LTiberious]

@Nissun - so lets do this.

Statues on Ilos -seems like Protheans had a race in them that was a "scientist" race.
Like Casts. Scientists,Warriors,Workers.

Thorian was for a ****load of time hidden in that sewer, so its kinda obvious

///
The thing that intrigues me is that many ruins that we encounter in the game are told to be Protheans.

Though "Protheans" are usually just the civilisations that were before the current on. And it makes you think - maybe some of those ruins/artifacts are from a more distant time.

[Nissun]

Yeah, that's what I mean. What did they build, and what is actually older? Obviously the Citadel is the oldest place, but I bet they borrowed a lot from the previous races too.

Hey, by the way, I drew one of the Ilos Protheans standing up. Sometimes I wish that one of the developers took a look at fan-made Prothean interpretations, and then told us who got closer to the official design. I guess it doesn't matter now, since we're so close to release date.

Modifié par Nissun, 14 février 2012 - 11:10 .

[LTiberious]

By the way a good idea, i'll PM someone

Heh, i mean some actual ruins, not "reaper" made. Like the piramids in ME1

[Volc19]

After all the Collector based Protheans, it's nice to see the Ilos Protheans getting some limelight.

My personal belief is that they are going to try to stay as close to the Ilos statues as they can, while solidifying the link to the Collectors with the bug like exoskeleton and four eyes. Jus' my two cents.

[Ice Cold J]

Shub-Niggurath64 wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...

So, can I call shenanigans on this game?

Cause recruiting a Prothean either implies that it was hiding somewhere for 50,000 years, which seems absolutely impossible to me, or there's time travel in ME3, which I also have a major beef with.

He was in stasis. Like the Protheans that were on Ilos, just for a longer period of time.

Edit: ninja'd

Again, HIDING in stasis for 50,000 years?

How? Why?

How could something like that be powered and not be found and why wouldn't he/she/it awaken earlier than 50,000 years to WARN US ABOUT THE DAMN REAPERS IN THE FIRST PLACE!?!?!

Again, SOO close to declaring shenanigans on this game... I love the franchise, but there are several MAJOR plot holes scattered across the games that they refuse to write their way out of or even address.

[Armass81]

Nissun wrote...

Yeah, that's what I mean. What did they build, and what is actually older? Obviously the Citadel is the oldest place, but I bet they borrowed a lot from the previous races too.

Hey, by the way, I drew one of the Ilos Protheans standing up. Sometimes I wish that one of the developers took a look at fan-made Prothean interpretations, and then told us who got closer to the official design. I guess it doesn't matter now, since we're so close to release date.

This is a nice picture. Could prothy after all look like this. The thing does have 4 eyes. We never could make out how many eyes the statues had. I guess the picture in genesis comic had that kind of face too.

It would go with the visions too.

Modifié par Armass81, 20 janvier 2012 - 09:36 .

[LTiberious]

Ice Cold J wrote...

Shub-Niggurath64 wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...

So, can I call shenanigans on this game?

Cause recruiting a Prothean either implies that it was hiding somewhere for 50,000 years, which seems absolutely impossible to me, or there's time travel in ME3, which I also have a major beef with.

He was in stasis. Like the Protheans that were on Ilos, just for a longer period of time.

Edit: ninja'd

Again, HIDING in stasis for 50,000 years?

How? Why?

How could something like that be powered and not be found and why wouldn't he/she/it awaken earlier than 50,000 years to WARN US ABOUT THE DAMN REAPERS IN THE FIRST PLACE!?!?!

Again, SOO close to declaring shenanigans on this game... I love the franchise, but there are several MAJOR plot holes scattered across the games that they refuse to write their way out of or even address.

You know... there's a derelict reaper lying there for 37million years... and yet was found only recently.

[Volc19]

Right, Ice Cold. How dare he not wake himself up, whilst being in stasis in a buried research facility with his entire species dead. He should have been able to project his consciousness into a physical form, and deactivate his own stasis pod. For shame, Prothy. For shame.

[LTiberious]

Ah yes, Virtual Aliens!

[BentOrgy]

Volc19 wrote...

After all the Collector based Protheans, it's nice to see the Ilos Protheans getting some limelight.

My personal belief is that they are going to try to stay as close to the Ilos statues as they can, while solidifying the link to the Collectors with the bug like exoskeleton and four eyes. Jus' my two cents.

*Spoiler... Still?*

Unfortunately, I think the tentacle-beard statues aren't of the Prothean race, either one of their assimilated species or the original; reason being that, in the leaked script, Prothy says that Ilos was built on the ruins of "those who came before," (Yes, very Assassin's Creed, but I love it anyway.) meaning the Inusannon. The Protheans adapted much of their technology from them, much like how most of the races in the current timelime adapted from the Protheans. So its probable that the statues are of the Inusannon.

As much as I've always wanted, and always envisioned the Protheans to be the thin cthulu-esque statues that we've all talked about since 2007, I think its fair to say that Bioware turned them into bug-people.

*End Spoiler*

Modifié par BentOrgy, 20 janvier 2012 - 11:56 .

[Volc19]

Even at that, why would there be tenticle faced beings in the beacon visions? I doubt they would simply retcon the first ever approximation to the Protheans just because.

[BentOrgy]

Volc19 wrote...

Even at that, why would there be tenticle faced beings in the beacon visions? I doubt they would simply retcon the first ever approximation to the Protheans just because.

That was my biggest argument against a lot of the people who would "nay-say," that the Protheans looked like the statues; "Why would a Prothean Beacon broadcast anything other than Prothean memories?" They wouldn't, they were meant for Prothean minds, for Prothean people, warning them about the Prothean fate. The Protheans would show Protheans dying. Its not like they'd know visually what happened to the Inusannon anyway.

But even still, Bioware has shown they're not above changing their own lore to suit their story's direction, and for that reason, plus the things I've read in the script, I believe that Bioware has made their choice.

Buggy.

[Volc19]

Again, it simply could be a collector-esque Ilos statue, a tall lanky cthulu man with four eyes and an exoskeleton resembling the Collectors. Why is it that the idea of a conceptual middle ground is so outlandish? Why must it always be one or the other?

[BentOrgy]

Volc19 wrote...

Again, it simply could be a collector-esque Ilos statue, a tall lanky cthulu man with four eyes and an exoskeleton resembling the Collectors. Why is it that the idea of a conceptual middle ground is so outlandish? Why must it always be one or the other?

Why would he be? Unless I missed something, he's not a crossbreed of anything; he's a pure Prothean, from the original Prothean race. Which means;

1) If the true race were the tentacle-faced species, then he wouldn't have collector traits.

2) If the true race resembled the collectors, he wouldn't have tentacles.

3) Even if the true race was the tentacle species, and were then transformed by the reapers into the collector race (Which is what I orignally assumed.) Prothy would have been indoctrinated; because that's what happened to every single member of that race; those Protheans that were redesigned into collectors were mindless husks. Why would Prothy be any different? Unless there's some deus ex machina that Bioware has yet to reveal, he wouldn't have had the brain to hide, he would have been a slave.

EDIT: And I'd just like to add that I doubt the Collector look was just armor; among other things, their eyes look too organic, like they were settled into a skull, not looking out through a helmet.

Modifié par BentOrgy, 21 janvier 2012 - 12:55 .

[BentOrgy]

Arcian wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...

EDIT: And I'd just like to add that I doubt the Collector look was just armor; among other things, their eyes look too organic, like they were settled into a skull, not looking out through a helmet.

Ever seen the alien dissection scene in Independence Day? That's pretty much what I'm talking about. Total integration into the suit.

I suppose, but the way Mordin describes Collector physiology (Digestive system, replaced by tech, etc.), he makes it sound like he's dissected one, and if that's the case, we would have known if it was just armor; it would have been a big plot point I think.

Collectors were little more than husks; organic cocoons for synthetic systems.

Modifié par BentOrgy, 21 janvier 2012 - 01:14 .

[Volc19]

I'm not insinuating that he is some sort of crossbreed. I am insinuating that, from a developmentl POV, a middle ground would be the most likely and reasonable. The previous images of the Cthulhu face Protheans were fleeting and vauge, enough so that they could "bug" it up a bit without deviating too far from the original concept, also making it further viable that extensive modifications could morph such a bug Cthulhu man into simply bug men.

EDIT: Well, Arcian, he could have always worn his armor in the stasis pod, or he could pop by the old armory and salvage something.

Modifié par Volc19, 21 janvier 2012 - 01:32 .

[BentOrgy]

Arcian wrote...
Organic cocoons for synthetic systems integrated into the prothean physiology in order to replace failing or redundant organs. They only really changed the stuff on the inside. Also, I'm thinking prothean organic suits are the "You're keeping it on until you die or you're relieved from duty" kind of suits - grown from their own genetic material in order to provide perfect integration, tailored to provide the ability to live like normal without having to take it off. Like an outer body.

Of course you could be right. I'm just hoping there's some truth to my theory, because that would solve the problem with Prothy fighting in the nude because there's no prothean armors left for him. Plus, I think it would be kind of cool and stand in stark contrast to the artificial ceramic and metal armors used by Shepard and Co.

It would be interesting, but I still can't get over a few things:

1) "No glands, replaced by tech. No digestive system, replaced by tech. No soul, replaced by tech. What ever they were, gone forever." Meaning any/all Prothean biology is gone.

2) There's never been any indication that the Protheans used technology similar to Collector tech; in ME1 its quite the opposite: sterile white, geometric patterns with that black metallic substance as an accent, with cicuit patterns scrawled across everything. Some people point to the Collector Base/Ship as evidence, but that always seemed to me like Prothean Technology that was degraded and altered over the tens of thousands of years the Collectors used it. Collectors needed pods to transport humans, so they crudley created those organic pods, and attatched them to the ship by similarly crude organic means. Being basically mindless, its not like the Collectors could remember how to use their own technology.

So to me, there's no real reason for Prothy to wear something that resembles a Collector, because it wasn't his race's tech. But that's my opinion.

@Volc: That makes more sense that what I thought you meant in the beginning; it might seem shifty to retcon the vision's appearence, but then again, the "Eye holes," were darkened out, so they could get away with filling them with "Bug eyes," and be fairly safe, but's as far as they could go. I thought you meant, quite literally, a collector with tentacles, which as I said, is basically ridiculous; because that would mean Prothy would have been part of the indotrinated race. It doesn't matter if its from developement POV (Even then, I don't see how.) when it clashes with lore, and plain logic.

I still hold to the idea that the Cthulhu-Statues may be the Inusannon, but there's still hope.

Modifié par BentOrgy, 21 janvier 2012 - 01:52 .

[LTiberious]

Ah yes, also, i have received intel from przemichal (my secret agent) that the lines that can be heard in the Vega trailer are the same as in the script.

We all know what that means.

///
I still like the idea of Prothy looking simmilar (not 100% alike) to a collector. Or atleast insectoid with chitinous armor.


And Casts can explain different races and different appearances.

///

Remember, that troughout the 2 games, we had no intel of protheans, and it seems that BW started thinking seriously about them only in the 3rd game So we can have a lot of plot mass effect fields.