225 réponses à ce sujet

[Cutlass Jack]

PseudoEthnic wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

They should. Especially when the entire galaxy is at stake.

With that mind set, none of the romances are smart.

Its the smartest thing. The Reapers can only be defeated with the power of Love.



(...and Really Big Guns, fired lovingly.)

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 01 août 2011 - 06:01 .

[Cutlass Jack]

We're getting JC Denton as a Squadmate? Is he romancable?

[kumquats]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

kumquats wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

kumquats wrote...

Tali did by far more dangerous things than sleeping with Shepard. It's her decision if she wants to risk it, not Shepards. She is an adult who knows her body.

And yes I would totally sleep with the man I love before going on a SM, who cares about death in that situation?
I mean, what a way to go!

It's a risk for both Tali AND Shepard.


That's not smart for either of them to do.

Who does smart things when they are in love?

They should. Especially when the entire galaxy is at stake.

No question about that, a rational person would never do such a thing. It's stupid and risky.
But I can understand the 'heat of the moment' factor.

[BioWareM0d13]

kumquats wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

liara. the romance is actually practical.

the shepard and tali thing would fall apart quickly. always having to take pills and other meds, having to prepare clean rooms, having to schedule their intimate moments? yeah, that'd kill the relationship QUICK.

This.

The Tali romance was nothing more than fan service. As such it doesn't really make much sense. I mean Shepard could potentially kill Tali by spending the night with her. If he really cared about her, would be willing to risk her life just to get some?

Tali did by far more dangerous things than sleeping with Shepard. It's her decision if she wants to risk it, not Shepards. She is an adult who knows her body.

And yes I would totally sleep with the man I love before going on a SM, who cares about death in that situation?
I mean, what a way to go!

Just because Tali has accepted the risks doesn't necessarily mean Shepard should. It is one thing for Tali to be willing to risk her own life, quite another for Shepard to be willing to risk Tali's life.

[kumquats]

Han Shot First wrote...

Just because Tali has accepted the risks doesn't necessarily mean Shepard should. It is one thing for Tali to be willing to risk her own life, quite another for Shepard to be willing to risk Tali's life.

Shepard doesn't want to risk her life that's fine, but he should shut his mouth about it.
Risking your life for anything, is the most personal decision you can make.

Shepard can decide about his own life and let Tali come to her own conclusion.

It's a very noble thing to do, but also a very patronizing. I don't like that dialogue in the romance at all.

[Dean_the_Young]

kumquats wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Just because Tali has accepted the risks doesn't necessarily mean Shepard should. It is one thing for Tali to be willing to risk her own life, quite another for Shepard to be willing to risk Tali's life.

Shepard doesn't want to risk her life that's fine, but he should shut his mouth about it.
Risking your life for anything, is the most personal decision you can make.

Shepard can decide about his own life and let Tali come to her own conclusion.

It's a very noble thing to do, but also a very patronizing. I don't like that dialogue in the romance at all.

Shepard is a military officer. It's his (or her) job to be patronizing when subordinates start taking needless risks for emotional reasons. A military officer is a parental figure who needs to watch over subordinates when they start letting emotions and other problems threaten their duties.

Granted, Commander Shepard should also know better than to sleep with a direct subordinate, but then no one ever said Commander Shepard was the most responsible of people.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 01 août 2011 - 07:44 .

[Neria Rose]

Han Shot First wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

liara. the romance is actually practical.

the shepard and tali thing would fall apart quickly. always having to take pills and other meds, having to prepare clean rooms, having to schedule their intimate moments? yeah, that'd kill the relationship QUICK.

This.

The Tali romance was nothing more than fan service. As such it doesn't really make much sense. I mean Shepard could potentially kill Tali by spending the night with her. If he really cared about her, would be willing to risk her life just to get some?

How is the Liara romance not fan service? "Oh Shepard, I'm SO young, SO virginal, SO inexperienced and naive, and I WANT YOU two minutes after meeting you! You're so irresistible that I'll keep letting you know I'm interested even after you've told me you're with someone else! I need you to clear up any misconceptions I have with regards to interacting with humans! And I'm available to both genders, but I look like a blue human woman, so you can get your jollies off on pixelated lesbian sex! And the idea of a threesome doesn't put me off! And I'm going to keep looking young until long after you've died, so you get to have a young-looking woman on your arm for your ENTIRE life! And I'm going to follow you to the ends of the galaxy no matter how obvious it is you want nothing to do with me!"

Technically, though, all of the romances are fan service. As is the entire game.

[S.A.K]

Neria Rose wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

liara. the romance is actually practical.

the shepard and tali thing would fall apart quickly. always having to take pills and other meds, having to prepare clean rooms, having to schedule their intimate moments? yeah, that'd kill the relationship QUICK.

This.

The Tali romance was nothing more than fan service. As such it doesn't really make much sense. I mean Shepard could potentially kill Tali by spending the night with her. If he really cared about her, would be willing to risk her life just to get some?

How is the Liara romance not fan service? "Oh Shepard, I'm SO young, SO virginal, SO inexperienced and naive, and I WANT YOU two minutes after meeting you! You're so irresistible that I'll keep letting you know I'm interested even after you've told me you're with someone else! I need you to clear up any misconceptions I have with regards to interacting with humans! And I'm available to both genders, but I look like a blue human woman, so you can get your jollies off on pixelated lesbian sex! And the idea of a threesome doesn't put me off! And I'm going to keep looking young until long after you've died, so you get to have a young-looking woman on your arm for your ENTIRE life! And I'm going to follow you to the ends of the galaxy no matter how obvious it is you want nothing to do with me!"

Technically, though, all of the romances are fan service. As is the entire game.

Exactly. Liara was fan service from the start. I like liara, but she is too young(about young as Shepards grand mother). Seriously though everyone got their preference. I like tali romance better, someone else might like liara romance or miranda romance. Some might not like romance at all. So everyone should do what they want with their game and mind your own damn business.

[Jeanne22]

I think Liara's romance is the most rewarding.

Her romance arc has the best writing (LOTSB) and more content. Tali's romance is okay, but the "dashing commander" line has somewhat ruined it for me. It's too onesided, imo.

[kumquats]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

kumquats wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Just because Tali has accepted the risks doesn't necessarily mean Shepard should. It is one thing for Tali to be willing to risk her own life, quite another for Shepard to be willing to risk Tali's life.

Shepard doesn't want to risk her life that's fine, but he should shut his mouth about it.
Risking your life for anything, is the most personal decision you can make.

Shepard can decide about his own life and let Tali come to her own conclusion.

It's a very noble thing to do, but also a very patronizing. I don't like that dialogue in the romance at all.

Shepard is a military officer. It's his (or her) job to be patronizing when subordinates start taking needless risks for emotional reasons. A military officer is a parental figure who needs to watch over subordinates when they start letting emotions and other problems threaten their duties.

Granted, Commander Shepard should also know better than to sleep with a direct subordinate, but then no one ever said Commander Shepard was the most responsible of people.

I think that is by far the best argument.
If I ever need an example for a responsible person, it would never be Commander Shepard.

[AngelicMachinery]

All pale in comparison to the Krogan adonis which is wrex.

[gamer_girl]

TALI! Cmon you bosch tets! XD

[green_lemur]

gamer_girl wrote...

TALI! Cmon you bosch tets! XD

TALI FTW!!!  

[Phuz]

I picked Tali for my first LI but went with Liara for my second playthrough and haven't regretted my decision at all.

[elearon1]

I had a thing for Tali in the first game, but she wasn't romanceable.

In the second game she was, but the bastages didn't make her same sex available, so again no go.

By the third game ... I've (been?) stuck with Liara for two games, so it would suck to drop her in the final act, even if they do make Tali a bimance. (that said, if Tali becomes a same sex LI option in 3, I'll probably stick with Liara once, and romance Tali once on separate playthroughs)

[ApplesauceBandit]

Both, AT THE SAME TIME!

OHHHH!

But seriously, Liara, I love Tali but if i have to choose just one it's gonna be Liara.

[BioWareM0d13]

Technically, though, all of the romances are fan service. As is the entire game.

Sure, but Tali is in her own seperate little category of fan service in that she wasn't romanceable in the first game and was only made so in the second because she had a loud fanbase that demanded it often and obnoxiously. Because of that, there are some problems with her romance that aren't present in others. Namely, that having sex with Shepard could kill Tali, and thus Shepard acting on Tali's advances is selfish and jeopardizes the mission.

I suspect that if Tali had ended up a romance option in the first game, the codex entry on Quarian biology wouldn't have given them immune systems as weak as they are currently, and sleeping with Shepard wouldn't have been potentially fatal.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 02 août 2011 - 04:26 .

[whywhywhywhy]

Han Shot First wrote...

Technically, though, all of the romances are fan service. As is the entire game.

Sure, but Tali is in her own seperate little category of fan service in that she wasn't romanceable in the first game and was only made so in the second because she had a loud fanbase that demanded it often and obnoxiously. Because of that, there are some problems with her romance that aren't present in others. Namely, that having sex with Shepard could kill Tali, and thus Shepard acting on Tali's advances is selfish and jeopardizes the mission.

I suspect that if Tali had ended up a romance option in the first game, the codex entry on Quarian biology wouldn't have given them immune systems as weak as they are currently, and sleeping with Shepard wouldn't have been potentially fatal.

Because of the way the Romance is written I have a hard time finding issue with it. One of the handful of things I feel BW got right.  The interaction in ME may not be concrete but at the same time it doesn't rule it out either. 
I think it works.

[DarkDragon777]

Liara.

Tali doesn't even compare.

[GipsyDangeresque]

Tali isn't even close to fanservice, in fact her romance is the best one in relation to being a natural extension and progression of the character.

Tali only wants to show Shepard her feelings for him if she can do it without dying, she didn't take a risk of biblical stakes and unprecedented risk by being with Shepard- the Quarians just aren't the fragile things you might want to believe they are. Kal'Reegar can take a bullet right through him and still be alright after continuing to be exposed to a heavy combat situation given enough antibiotics.

If Tali had continued to be a Love Interest in ME1 as originally intended, then the codex for the Quarian immune system would have remained exactly the same, because the ability of a Quarian to exist outside of their suits in isolated environments has never been in question- in fact the Mass Effect novel states that some Quarians on the flotilla opt not to wear their suits unless they'll be in a crowded event (like a trial for treason?) where exposure to many variables becomes an issue.

However, I think that given that there is an incredibly important emotional impact to Tali being with you, I don't think it would have been written nearly as well if it had been in the first Mass Effect. The kind of love that Tali would develop for Shepard, the kind of affection that would warrant her considering such a risk couldn't occur overnight like Ashley and Liara's which were rushed right into the end of the first story.

Instead it took time for those feelings to grow inside but be rejected as silly, and then later Shepard's return to finally catalyze her emotions- which is exactly the way it needed to happen to turn out as well-written as it does in Mass Effect 2.


In the end, Liara's greatest advantage is a density of quantity, having a terrible ME1 romance, but then an interesting Comic book, and then a rather cop-out of an ME2 side-plot that is finally actually made relatively worthwhile when she was given Tali's romance writer (Patrick Weekes aka @Patsquinade) for Lair of the Shadow Broker.

Modifié par Atemeus, 02 août 2011 - 09:55 .

[Asari_Party]

CERBERUSDEMAN wrote...

Roxy12 wrote...

Liara

StellarMagic wrote...


Lets face it, Tali is loyal, selfless, and smart. That and I can't wait to hear Tali's shock at being picked over an Asari. XP

Tali asks Shepard to hide war crimes from the governing body of her people to preserve her father's memory.

How is that selfless?

She asks Shepard to hide the evidence so that her father isn't made out to be a super devil through the generations at the risk of her own exile; how is that not selfless?

But her father was a "super devil" and she tells me to withhold the evidence to protect the image of him. Her stupid father that killed everyone aboard the Alerei. I think some people want to know why their family members and friends had to die and the quarians need to see just what the hell their leaders are actually doing. If they're going to go to war, they need to know all of the facts. Withholding this evidence is just plain selfish.

[GipsyDangeresque]

After you reveal the evidence, Tali seems to be equally, or perhaps even more so concerned about the civil unrest that seems to spring up between the Quarian people as political factions begin to become more divided and internal conflict becomes imminent, most likely screwing the Quarians over completely even before they wage suicide against the Geth.


Her father got reckless for results and that led to the deaths of everyone on the Alerei due to his devotion to Tali and wanting to build her a house on the homeworld. Anyone that died on the Alerei was willingly a part of Rael'Zorah's experiments to brainwash and enslave an entire race that now values as a culture its' own ability to self-determination beyond all else.

The Quarians need to see just what the hell their leaders are doing, but not if doing so might put wind under the wings of Daro'Xen's path to self-destructive galactic domination- which is exactly the reason that my Shepard withheld the evidence. Of course, she discovers everything later anyway, but that's a bit of metagaming and also completely unavoidable, in order to provide a villain for ME3.


The Quarians do not need to be going to war against anything but the Reapers, now or in the future. They need to know all of the facts one day, but it is not stupid to preserve the stability of the Quarian people in the short term.

Tali's devotion to her father is indeed selfish, in my opinion. It's one of her biggest flaws actually, her blind devotion to her Dad's reputation. Of course, that's just one more reason to make her better than Liara as it sets her apart from being such a Mary-Sue. But it's also a sign of her rejection of her own needs in favor of others, even in favor of the needs of the dead which is indeed selfless in and of-itself, even if it is in this case an unfitting recipient in our opinions.

I doubt Tali is done growing as a character for the trilogy anyway, because we were told by Casey Hudson's twitter that as a main character Tali has a character story arc and final resolution come ME3, like the others.

Modifié par Atemeus, 02 août 2011 - 10:14 .