296 réponses à ce sujet

[Alright-Television]

Wikipedia is a lovely thing, isn't it? I don't think it need to be advertised anymore though.

Modifié par Alright-Television, 02 août 2011 - 05:56 .

[Wozearly]

aftohsix wrote...

IMO there are three groups of DA2 critics / haters:


#1:  Some people have geniune criticisms of the game which really made them not like it.

#2:  Many people wanted it to be Dragon Age Origins 2 and when it wasn't they refused to accept it.

#3:  People who experienced a severe case of confirmation bias.  "I knew it!  This game is terrible.  It's all EA's fault!  Stanley Woo tried to punch my grandmother!"

No group is really wrong in their opinions (except 3, Open your minds people) just like those of us who enjoyed DA2 are really right in ours.

1 and 2 are not mutually exclusive groups. My initial reaction to the game was #2, followed by a determination to keep an open mind. By Act 2, I'd been broadly enjoying the game, but the issues of #1 got frustrating enough to tip me into the critics' camp by the time I'd finished it.

When people say "...it should have been Origins 2", don't automatically assume that was a knee-jerk reaction by people who can't stand change. Although clearly there are some people in that camp...

Modifié par Wozearly, 02 août 2011 - 06:04 .

[Edhriano]

Well as long as people see and understand that the most
common and obvious reason why people pre-ordered DA2
is because they really like and enjoy DAO.

[Wydi]

Darth Obvious wrote...

I think Origins was infinitely better than DA2, but I will readily admit Origins flaws:

[...]
- levels that seemed to never end (e.g. Deep Roads)

Funny that you mention that.
I always liked it that way, since the Deep Roads were meant to be unbelievably large. In my opinion, the Deep Roads in DA2 were far too short, so I was never truly immersed to the feeling of being on an expedition deep into a long abandoned underground world.

[Aaleel]

aftohsix wrote...

IMO there are three groups of DA2 critics / haters:


#1:  Some people have geniune criticisms of the game which really made them not like it.

#2:  Many people wanted it to be Dragon Age Origins 2 and when it wasn't they refused to accept it.

#3:  People who experienced a severe case of confirmation bias.  "I knew it!  This game is terrible.  It's all EA's fault!  Stanley Woo tried to punch my grandmother!"

No group is really wrong in their opinions (except 3, Open your minds people) just like those of us who enjoyed DA2 are really right in ours.

I'm #1 all the way, the game was just not fun.

The combat after a while with all the waves every fight was no longer tactical or fun, it was just long, boring and tedious to me.

Then the city itself was just dead and lifeless to me for someplace you spend so much time.  And then when you got to leave you had to keep going to the same places over and over and over, so there wasn't even a what's next over the horizon type of feel even though the game took place over 10 years.

Then there was nothing I felt I was working towards to keep me interested in the story.  First it was raise this 50 gold, that was the most important task in the first act, but about half way through you get a quest that allows you to skip the work altogether so what was the point.

It's a personal story but I knew nothing about my past, I had a family that I had no given tools to strengthen bonds with or interact with in any meaningful way, so what was their purpose.  I had the "what's the point" feeling way too often.

Modifié par Aaleel, 02 août 2011 - 06:16 .

[aftohsix]

Aaleel wrote...

It's a personal story but I knew nothing about my past, I had a family that I had no given tools to strengthen bonds with or interact with in any meaningful way, so what was their purpose.  I had the "what's the point" feeling way too often.

I did think the game could have been significantly improved if we got to spend an opening chapter with Hawke in Lothering, getting to know his family and doing miscellaneous tutorial quests.  Would have added lots of drama by seeing friends get cut down as the Darkspawn invade and you having to round up your family and hit the road.

[Darth Obvious]

Edhriano wrote...

Well as long as people see and understand that the most
common and obvious reason why people pre-ordered DA2
is because they really like and enjoy DAO.

Naturally.

Like many people, I bought DA2 because I liked DA:O. Obviously, the sales of the second game are a result of the success of the first game. This happens all the time with games (and movies, etc.).

I know lots of people who bought DA2 for the same reason I did (i.e. they thought that it would be good).

I don't know anyone who actually likes it, though.

[Aaleel]

aftohsix wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

It's a personal story but I knew nothing about my past, I had a family that I had no given tools to strengthen bonds with or interact with in any meaningful way, so what was their purpose.  I had the "what's the point" feeling way too often.

I did think the game could have been significantly improved if we got to spend an opening chapter with Hawke in Lothering, getting to know his family and doing miscellaneous tutorial quests.  Would have added lots of drama by seeing friends get cut down as the Darkspawn invade and you having to round up your family and hit the road.

Not just that.  More family related quests during the first act.  More people to talk to who knew my family.  Let me visit my sister in the Circle, see how life really is there.  Or let me visit my brother in the Templar barracks.  This could have beared serious weight on peoples' endgame choice.  Give me the option to go in my mother's room, don't just tell me I don't want to go in there.

[taine]

People say it is a bad game because it was simply a rushed, average-to-mediocre game, and they expect more from Bioware.

[DragonAddict]

I personally didn't like the camera viewing change. no more omni-directionalism.

I felt the game was watered down and too simplified for kids and console users.

No more Warden or Morrigan / God baby.

really short game with bad ending

Basically , DAO was a way better game than DA2, unless you like a simple, hack / slash console game.

I give da2 7.5 / 10 includes Legacy

[Slayer299]

xabiton wrote...
respectful snip

Because some people, like myself, found DA2 to be sub-par, way below average, mini mediocre and/or shallow from a company like BW that has a stellar track record for quality games.

Because what we got was a central story that was pretty much non-existant and instead filled with 'go here boy, fetch' quests, 2 dimensional char's like Isabella, an alleged 10 yr span spent in Kirkwall but we actually only played 2 years game time and had to read about the other 8 that Hawke slept through? Or the fact that Kirkwall was not the "City of Chains" but the "City that never Changes".

I won't go into the list of other items about DA2 that have been written about here I'm fairly certain, but that's what I found in BW's latest something or other book end in my software library.

[aries1001]

I'm currently pllaying through DA2 (have only got as far as the Sundermount Mountain Top), but I like the game. Let me me give the ratings this way:

Story, character and dialogue. 9.5/10
Combat 7.5/10
Gameplay etc. 8.5/10

Maybe my expectations were not that high because I remember people saying on these very forums that the City of Kirkwall was lifeless. Turns out it is not - there are people standing about a lot; as in all of Bioware's games, they're standing still in one place during the entire game. [Having a game that spans over 10 years or so hightlights the problematic side of this more than a game than only spans a year or two]. I also expected re-used areas a lot, the only re-used areas I've seen is the ones from Kirkwall's day and night versions (which I might add probaply was included because many people wanted a day/night cycle in DA: Origins). It might become worse during the remaining two chapters, though. The characters are a delight; Merrill, Fenris, Varric etc. The banter between the characters are wonderfull, too. I don't mind that I cannot talk with my characters at any moment in the game; I like the new friend/rivalry system as well.

I like the more clean, userfriendly and modern interface in DA2. It is now much more clear where everything is and what I'm supposed to be doing in the inventory; loot now comes in two forms...junk and normal loot. Very nice indeed. Loot, at least armor etc. is restricted to Hawke. I don't any problems with this at all as DA2 isn't a Diablo clone - I like that I only have to change my followers' belts, rings, amulets, weapons, and possibly boots and helms as well. The skill and abilities are much logical, clean and userfriendly now, I find.

Only thing that annoyed me so far: The waves (oh, not this again - indeed yes, this again). First I didn't get what it was about but then I saw it, waves of waves of combat coming at me. As of patch 1..03 (which I'm playing with), this has been turned down a bit, no more enemies appearing out of thin air it seems...
However, it still annoyed, especially since every time you turn a corner in Kirkwall, either day or night, there are enemies en masse. And they do appear - seemingly - from no, not thin air, but from ledges, from corners. And the sheer massiveness of them made me check the gamebox to see if it said Diablo 3 on it. It did not. But I pressed on,, because the story, the characters and the dialogue were so well designed and executed. Still, the wave combat annoyed me, particularly in one instance during night-time. I was told to go to a certain spot to do wait for someone; for some reason, the devs. decided to put a fight in with some scouts (people in red cloaks and hoods) just before another fight with the -ahem- villain de jour. To me, this is bad gameplay design as well as bad combat design. And something, you'll do in a Diablo game or Diablo clone, not in game like DA2.

Much has been said about the whole 'get the CoD' crowd with DA2. I'm not sure Bioware did this because I find Bioware, EA etc. didn' analyze (get) what it is that makes CoD popular. It is, in fact, imo, the clear mission objectives, and that the player (the gamer) has freedom how to reach these objectives
It is not that I as a CoD player (which I occasionally am) can get a new scope to my rifle or better armor in itself; it's that the scope or the armor help me reach my objectives sooner or in a better way.

[Mecha Tengu]

it was too rushed

the story was a nice break from "save the world" tropes

but the game itself could have used more development time

[bEVEsthda]

miskatonica wrote...
I had a lot of fun with DA2, and it saddens me to think that so many people seem to have felt ... well, basically, betrayed by it.

TY for the respons.

Yes, While it's common to see long lists of 'flaws' I'm convinced those are of lesser importance. It's more something people fall back on and put in an effort on, when Bioware asks for "constructive criticism". If one likes the game, it's possible to gloss over a lot of things. Basically one does so with every game, always. That doesn't mean that those faults aren't real or don't diminish the game. But personally I didn't even like the game, even so the waves amused me more than they bothered me. If I'm gonna swallow all those ridiculous combat animations, what's wrong with ninjas falling from the sky? Same unrealistic nintendo platformer ****. And reused areas: " well so they couldn't afford more - what a pity".

But they shouldn't result in the unextinguishable eternal-vengence-anger that DA2 released. That's really more the effect of that the DA of DA:O is gone. The betrayed girlfriend/wife.

And truth be told, most people who were upset have left this forum. And besides that, the moderators keep things civil enough here. But on other channels, you can really tap into what people really feel.

In a way i think it's cool that Bioware made it so clear they were replacing DA with this new formula, by that totally braindead attempt to use DA:O to sell DA2. Yes, that "2".  Because otherwise this could easily have slipped by, like just another game franchise inside the DA IP. It surprises me greatly that they didn't try the water like that first. But since I don't want to lose the DA:O heritage, I think it's great that they woke up all this rage. Probably doesn't matter. It's doubtful we'll see a BG/DA:O-spirit game again anyway.

[Persephone]

DinoSteve wrote...

nope all the flaws that dao had da2 has except it has more

The flaws in DAO had DAII?

What, DAII is a disease now?

All kidding aside, no, DAII got rid of several flaws DAO had. Things I really hated. Strange, huh?

[Persephone]

erynnar wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Wydi wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Jilted Girlfriends.

Not sure if I got you correctly, but did you just imply that so many people don't like DA2 because they feel jilted? 
You see, there are very specific, well justified reasons, many of them mentioned in this thread.
You can't simply deny that and label those/us buyers as jealous/childish conservatives.

From an objective point of view, there are quite some undeniable major flaws in DA2 which DAO hadn't. 

And: From an objective point of view, there are quite some undeniable major flaws in DAO which DAII hadn't. 

That's true for every game. Like...EVER.

Sorry, have to agree to disagree with this. Yes, DAO has flaws, I was expecting them to be fixed, what was meh to be improved, and what worked to be kept. Instead we got DA2 which gutted DAO, fixed what wasn't broken, didn't improve the meh, and tried to re-write the franchise into a "Jack of all trades , master of none" game trying for an audience that doesn't like RPGs. DA2's largest flaw to date- dumping a strong, large base audience for a shiny new one and charging more for less game (details, new dungeons, and length, just to name a few).

Did we even plsy the same game?

Gutted DAO? How? My DAO is just fine, as is my Warden's canon.

Many of the things that were fixed are among my faves. Approval nonsense gone. Gift spamming gone. Lame mage combat gone. I could go on and on.

As part of that "strong, large base audience" I will say: I did not feel dumped at all. Quite the contrary.

[dragonfire100]

Persephone wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

nope all the flaws that dao had da2 has except it has more

The flaws in DAO had DAII?

What, DAII is a disease now?

All kidding aside, no, DAII got rid of several flaws DAO had. Things I really hated. Strange, huh?

Things i hated about DAO im not gona say the combat was bad but dude im tired of the hardcore RPG fighting hacking/slash is the way to go the story how many times do we have to have oh no the worlds gona end we need something else and thats what DA2 gives you oh my god how many times does the warden just stares at you? i really hated that armour way to big even for female wardens small the armour down a little enemys not that hard really and thats all i hate about DAO.

[Persephone]

Anathemic wrote...

It's bad, because a game called TW2 came out

Right. CDPR jinxed it. Duh, that explains it all. <_<

[Whatsupnewyork]

Persephone wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

It's bad, because a game called TW2 came out

Right. CDPR jinxed it. Duh, that explains it all. <_<

You're not funny. At least CDPR actually puts effort into their games nowadays.

[Sabariel]

Personal preference. That's why.

[sarcasm] Though, of course, there's the secret "I hate change" agenda, too... [/sarcasm]

[Wydi]

dragonfire100 wrote...

Things i hated about DAO im not gona say the combat was bad but dude im tired of the hardcore RPG fighting hacking/slash is the way to go [...]

What?
Then why not simply buy Diablo 3 or Torchlight or God of War or whatever there is and leave the slow-paced tactical combat to those who want it?
Because, see, I loved the combat in DAO, and BioWare was pretty much the only big dev studio left that actually delivered this kind of RPG. So..yeah, RinpocheSchnozberry seems to be right somehow. I do feel metaphorically jilted, which just adds to my already mixed feelings about DA2.

Modifié par Wydi, 03 août 2011 - 01:48 .

[dragonfire100]

Wydi wrote...

dragonfire100 wrote...

Things i hated about DAO im not gona say the combat was bad but dude im tired of the hardcore RPG fighting hacking/slash is the way to go [...]

What?
Then why not simply buy Diablo 3 or Torchlight or God of War or whatever there is and leave the slow-paced tactical combat to those who want it?
Because, see, I loved the combat in DAO, and BioWare was pretty much the only big dev studio left that actually delivered this kind of RPG. So..yeah, RinpocheSchnozberry seems to be right somehow. I do feel metaphorically jilted, which just adds to my already mixed feelings about DA2.

Ok first off i dont have D3 i dont have TL and i dont have GOW i have fable but thats not the point my point is is that why do you hate DA2 when the inporved the stuff like combat and NPCS in combat cuz aveline is a better tank then alistair.

[Persephone]

Sabariel wrote...

Personal preference. That's why.

[sarcasm] Though, of course, there's the secret "I hate change" agenda, too... [/sarcasm]

And don't forget the [Sarcasm] Ooooooh, shiny bandwagon! I'm gonna hop on it agenda.[/sarcasm]

[Wydi]

dragonfire100 wrote...

Ok first off i dont have D3 i dont have TL and i dont have GOW i have fable but thats not the point my point is is that why do you hate DA2 when the inporved the stuff like combat and NPCS in combat cuz aveline is a better tank then alistair.

Because from my point of view, the combat hasn't been improved but just simplified in a way that I can't stand.
I loved to micromanage my NPCs and the fights in DAO, watching over every single move my characters and companions did in combat and create well-functioning tactics for each character.
If I wanted to play a Hack'n'Slash game, I'd buy a Hack'n'Slash game. There are plenty of them out there, with lots of new ones every single month. 
Dragon Age instead is one of the very very few games left that provided classic gameplay, just like their spiritual predecessors NWN, KotOR and BG.
Whether or not Aveline is a better tank than Alistair is totally unimportant.

[Firky]

Wydi wrote...

I loved to micromanage my NPCs and the fights in DAO, watching over every single move my characters and companions did in combat and create well-functioning tactics for each character.

I'm most definitely a micromanager. I still don't have a single tactic set. It actually took me a while to figure out how to turn literally everything off so that no-one would do anything without me telling them to. Now it feels like Baldur's Gate. (With somewhat more running away and being knocked on your ass.)

I totally understand why people playing with just one character at a time would need/want tactics and behaviours, but it would have been cool to just have like a "classic play" option which just turned everything off for you. (I really did find it difficult to figure out how to turn it all off, oddly enough.)