213 réponses à ce sujet

[AtreiyaN7]

csfteeeer wrote...

True, the only thing you had to do was attack an enemy an randomly press an special move until it died(unless the fights were stupidly cheap*Cough*Arishok*Cough).

Try randomly spamming "special moves" on an assassin and get back to me on how that works out when you're on hard or nightmare and party members start dropping like flies, k?

[Rhobert]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
Dragon Age: Origins had a well designed, well turned, well presented CLICHE storyline. That they did it well does not change the fact it's cliche, and yes Dragon Age: Origins was all about killing the Archdemon and showing how incredibly badass, heroic, awesome your Warden is. There was nothing more to the main plot ( I say MAIN, grasp that part ) in that game.

That a plot has certain characters in it that are interesting ( I personally liked Jeneka the most ) doesn't change the fact it is ****. I view the DA 2 main plot as more of interesting concept then DA:O and Legacy, I view it until Act III as better executed then DA:O and Legacy and I view Awakening as having interesting concepts and good execution.

Which just goes to show that there are an infinite number of story lines - some cliched, others not so much - that could be successfully done with the right presentation.  

I personally don't care whether the story is "save the world" or "save yourself" or whatever.  As long as it's carefully crafted, fleshed out and presented well, it works for me.

I think DA2's story of mage vs templars could have made a very fine story, but just was not satisfactorily executed.

[axl99]

Melca36 wrote...

axl99 wrote...

How many people are still gonna watch playthroughs on Youtube just to feel whatever negative opinions they have on Legacy are a little extra relevant?

I can't judge a game by watching a youtube.  I don't see how people can.

People can. Especially with livestream broadcasts of newly released games/dlc. Granted it's no better than backseat gaming, but that's what a lot of people do anyway. Sometimes the user broadcasting would ask an audience for feedback.

Again, not a substitute for actually playing a game. Better than nothing and relying on second hand information.

[erynnar]

ipgd wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Goes both ways I 've noticed. The people who like DAO are called stupid and laughed at too. Funny how that works out.

By who?

You mean like AtreiyaN7's laughing at someone's differing opinon implying it and they are stupid? Things like that. Both sides have done it. The implication that all of us have different opinions so we don't have to put imho opinion after it but the sarcasim and put downs are just lovely.

[The Glutton]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

True, the only thing you had to do was attack an enemy an randomly press an special move until it died(unless the fights were stupidly cheap*Cough*Arishok*Cough).

Try randomly spamming "special moves" on an assassin and get back to me on how that works out when you're on hard or nightmare and party members start dropping like flies, k?

Done.

[Sylvianus]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Cliche, cliche, cliche. What ? Cliche ! So ? Cliche ! Hu, okay ! **** Cliche !

This word has become suddenly cool lately. I see it everywhere.

Now I understand why Hawk was completely boring as heroes. The writers wanted to respond to this thought a bit simplistic.

Everything in dao was complicated, deep and more subtle than anything in DA2. Just sayin '

Complicated? Just a moment...LOLOLOLOLOLOL...ahem, no, it really wasn't anymore complicated than DA2. In fact, I'd argue that DA2 combat was more involved than combat in DA:O, seeing as class syngery played a role in creating combos. It required a bit more thought than going Cone of Cold + Stone Fist = I WIN WITH INSTANT SHATTERING, that's for sure.

Or are you implying that pushing 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0 on the hotbar in DA:O was somehow a more complex way to use one's abilities than pushing 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0 on the hotbar in DA2? *sarcasm*

I talked only about the story at each stage, the atmosphere, the universe, the RP. Not the game...
Why DAO has been so successful, why many people became true fans ? Certainly not just because of the fight.

It is obvious that when I say " cliche " , I do not mean the fight.... I love the combat in DA2, I always said. That's not the problem. The story of DA2 was simplified, poorly executed, without subtlety. . The extremists on both sides has not worked. Too shallow, the champion who appears like a fool, with empty holes in time. Act 3 was the worst.
And I hated having to swallow countless side quests  before I can advance in the story. Bad and boring.

The result of the expedition was terribly disappointing. All for that. Also, So many inconsistencies. I can not play a mage, even if I love the changes bought.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 01 août 2011 - 09:16 .

[ipgd]

erynnar wrote...

ipgd wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Goes both ways I 've noticed. The people who like DAO are called stupid and laughed at too. Funny how that works out.

By who?

You mean like AtreiyaN7's laughing at someone's differing opinon implying it and they are stupid? Things like that. Both sides have done it. The implication that all of us have different opinions so we don't have to put imho opinion after it but the sarcasim and put downs are just lovely.

She was not implying that people who like DAO are stupid.

[Sylvianus]

erynnar wrote...

ipgd wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Goes both ways I 've noticed. The people who like DAO are called stupid and laughed at too. Funny how that works out.

By who?

You mean like AtreiyaN7's laughing at someone's differing opinon implying it and they are stupid? Things like that. Both sides have done it. The implication that all of us have different opinions so we don't have to put imho opinion after it but the sarcasim and put downs are just lovely.

It's really funny that they ask the question. Well, you know, They are " experts "  in the behavior of the "haters" and those who pretend not too fond of the DA2. Always they they generalize, without reading a word of course which is marked when it is constructive.

" The fans do not like change, that's not the game that has a problem but themself. The fans are nostalgic and stupid. Haters gonna hate, "etc..

But when it comes to bad behavior of  " true fans " loyal to BioWare, they have no ideas of bad behavior or bad ideas. The expertise of behavior and thought disappears.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 01 août 2011 - 09:26 .

[upsettingshorts]

There is a difference between saying "your argument is dumb" and "your opinion is invalid."

The former does not necessarily imply disagreement.

In fact, it's nigh impossible to construct an argument in opposition to a vague opinion that is presented as self-evident.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 01 août 2011 - 09:32 .

[Nerdage]

I love a reasoned debate, especially one full of pettiness and back-handed insults..

Just think the better of it and stop replying, whatever "side" you're on.

[erynnar]

Sylvianus wrote...

erynnar wrote...

ipgd wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Goes both ways I 've noticed. The people who like DAO are called stupid and laughed at too. Funny how that works out.

By who?

You mean like AtreiyaN7's laughing at someone's differing opinon implying it and they are stupid? Things like that. Both sides have done it. The implication that all of us have different opinions so we don't have to put imho opinion after it but the sarcasim and put downs are just lovely.

It's really funny that they ask the question. Well, you know, They are " experts "  in the behavior of the "haters" and those who pretend not too fond of the DA2. Always they they generalize, without reading a word of course which is marked when it is constructive.

" The fans do not like change, that's not the game that has a problem but themself. The fans are nostalgic and stupid. Haters gonna hate, "etc..

But when it comes to bad behavior of  " true fans " loyal to BioWare, they have no ideas of bad behavior or bad ideas. The expertise of behavior and thought disappears.

So it appears. I do facepalm and an eyeroll when ever the old "cant' stand change,"  "want another DAO clone," "Just to stupid to get the innovations," arguments come out.  

[TEWR]

I just read 5 posts and I have no clue what's going on.


....you'd think I'd be used to that on here by now.

[upsettingshorts]

BioWare makes the former.

BioWare and many members of the BSN who don't like DA2 have formally and explicitly said they did want another DAO, so I'm not sure why you'd be rolling your eyes at that one.

BioWare makes the last one, although the disdain you've added into the statement is simply inferred, it isn't something they've done.

However, it does not appear that anyone in the last couple pages are making any such arguments.

Now, what would be constructive?  Describe the features and story elements you believe are deeper, subtle, or more complicated in DAO than DA2, then we can discover what you even mean and perhaps actually debate.  Otherwise, I'm not sure what response you expect from those who disagree other than, "Yeah, no."

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 01 août 2011 - 09:39 .

[erynnar]

I have elsewhere.

Laughing out loud and being sarcastic is implying that the other person's opinion is stupid, their like of the game is stupid, and that they are. It is one thing to lay out why they disagree with DAO being more complex. I am all for it. I would love to see why she he disagrees.

[erynnar]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I just read 5 posts and I have no clue what's going on.


....you'd think I'd be used to that on here by now.

Meh, don't bother. ROFL! I am moving on to Legacy convos and seeing what others thought of it. especially those like me who didn't like DA2. I wonder if they gave Legacy a chance.

[The Glutton]

The DLC itself I consider to be extremely average, by the way.

Some of my thoughts:

-- It's quite long for a DLC, so purely in terms of length and what it has to offer, you'd get your money's worth.

-- A couple of new characters make some pretty cool appearances.

-- It's got a fair more amount of variety in terms of hostile encounters compared to the identical-looking mercenary duplicates from the main game.

-- Some nice-looking new areas to explore, though like in the game, the visuals still appear kind of 'sterile'. I didn't really expect them to change that up, to be honest, so it's not a huge negative.

The bad:

-- Most of the DLC is made up of fighting. The entire expansion lacks a strong narrative -- it plays similar to a dungeon crawler. Still, people who liked Dragon Age 2's combat ( and party banter, characters etc. ) will enjoy it. My gripe is that it should have been advertised for what it was. 

-- It's still very linear, much like the main game.

-- You get some references depending on which Act you start Legacy in, but your choices never really come back to haunt you. The DLC itself also lacks any meaningful choices/consequences.

Overall, I'd rate it about 6.5 or 7.0 depending on what you liked about Dragon Age 2. If you hated Dragon Age 2, chances are this DLC won't change your mind.

[hoorayforicecream]

Sylvianus wrote...

It's really funny that they ask the question. Well, you know, They are " experts "  in the behavior of the "haters" and those who pretend not too fond of the DA2. Always they they generalize, without reading a word of course which is marked when it is constructive.

You seem pretty fond of the sweeping generalizations yourself. 

Please indulge my curiosity. What part of "Everything in dao was complicated, deep and more subtle than anything in DA2. Just sayin '" is constructive? 

" The fans do not like change, that's not the game that has a problem but themself. The fans are nostalgic and stupid. Haters gonna hate, "etc..

But when it comes to bad behavior of  " true fans " loyal to BioWare, they have no ideas of bad behavior or bad ideas. The expertise of behavior and thought disappears.

If you don't actually say what it is you dislike about DA2 specifically, how can anyone take your opinion seriously? "Everything is worse in DA2" doesn't help Bioware make a better game, nor does it help anyone understand your reasoning.

I'm not excusing anyone else's behavior, and I'm not speaking for anyone but myself. I do think that you're rather hypocritical about the generalizations bit though. 

[Drone696]

Sylvianus wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Cliche, cliche, cliche. What ? Cliche ! So ? Cliche ! Hu, okay ! **** Cliche !

This word has become suddenly cool lately. I see it everywhere.

Now I understand why Hawk was completely boring as heroes. The writers wanted to respond to this thought a bit simplistic.

Everything in dao was complicated, deep and more subtle than anything in DA2. Just sayin '

Complicated? Just a moment...LOLOLOLOLOLOL...ahem, no, it really wasn't anymore complicated than DA2. In fact, I'd argue that DA2 combat was more involved than combat in DA:O, seeing as class syngery played a role in creating combos. It required a bit more thought than going Cone of Cold + Stone Fist = I WIN WITH INSTANT SHATTERING, that's for sure.

Or are you implying that pushing 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0 on the hotbar in DA:O was somehow a more complex way to use one's abilities than pushing 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0 on the hotbar in DA2? *sarcasm*

I talked only about the story at each stage, the atmosphere, the universe, the RP. Not the game...
Why DAO has been so successful, why many people became true fans ? Certainly not just because of the fight.

It is obvious that when I say " cliche " , I do not mean the fight.... I love the combat in DA2, I always said. That's not the problem. The story of DA2 was simplified, poorly executed, without subtlety. . The extremists on both sides has not worked. Too shallow, the champion who appears like a fool, with empty holes in time. Act 3 was the worst.
And I hated having to swallow countless side quests  before I can advance in the story. Bad and boring.

The result of the expedition was terribly disappointing. All for that. Also, So many inconsistencies. I can not play a mage, even if I love the changes bought.

1. Cliches: Imo DA2 pretty much deconstructed them, which leads to

2. "The Champion who appears to be a fool": I thought it was hilarious (and Hawke is even aware of that.. more or less)

3."The result of the expedition was terribly disappointing": Not true. Hawke discovered the Primeval Thaig and a new form of lyrium and I think this plotline will play a big role in the future.

[TEWR]

-- Most of the DLC is made up of fighting. The entire expansion lacks a strong narrative -- it plays similar to a dungeon crawler. Still, people who liked Dragon Age 2's combat ( and party banter, characters etc. ) will enjoy it. My gripe is that it should have been advertised for what it was.

Which brings up a point I made in other threads. All DAO DLC for the main game is comprised of primarily combat. This isn't anything new.

Plus, you find out that the dwarves are crazy and there are Darkspawn about. Kinda hard to have a civil discussion with either of those two.

-- It's still very linear, much like the main game.

Dragon Age DLC is meant to be linear. Warden's Keep was linear. RtO was linear. Neither of them were as long as Legacy or had 5 side quests (6 if you count the puzzle to get the armor set) you could do. Legacy isn't as linear as it's made out to be.

By the time you finish those 5 side quests, you have to finish the DLC itself, and at that point you're close to the ending.

Also, it does at this point have a meaningful choice. How Bioware handles it in the future is what matters. The choice won't affect the main game of DA2, but it could affect the future.

But if Bioware doesn't make it have any significance later on, then it will become meaningless. It's not meaningless yet

erynnar wrote...

Meh, don't bother. ROFL! I am moving on to Legacy convos and seeing what others thought of it. especially those like me who didn't like DA2. I wonder if they gave Legacy a chance.

as you know I didn't like the main game of DA2 but I loved Legacy.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 01 août 2011 - 09:54 .

[AtreiyaN7]

erynnar wrote...

ipgd wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Goes both ways I 've noticed. The people who like DAO are called stupid and laughed at too. Funny how that works out.

By who?

You mean like AtreiyaN7's laughing at someone's differing opinon implying it and they are stupid? Things like that. Both sides have done it. The implication that all of us have different opinions so we don't have to put imho opinion after it but the sarcasim and put downs are just lovely.

Wrong, because I was laughing at the idea that DA:O is somehow inherently superior and more complex - not the individual, because as is obvious when you look at how the games function, they essentially play the same way. Sorry, but keep your interpretation of what I'm saying to yourself or direct it at me. You want to disgaree about the story, writing and plot, go right ahead.

Additional edit: I certainly wouldn't claim that Act I in DA2 is excitement-filled, and I've agreed with people who say it's slow-paced (because it is). Still, story-wise, even with the unevenness in the game (like Act III, which people like to argue over a lot), I think the plot of the game was decidedly less cliche than the Big Bad in DA:O.

How many times are we supposed to kill the Archdemon/Jon Irenicus/Darth Malak/name any other archenemy in any RPG and still have that be fresh and not be a cliche? Oh, and while we're at it: I've never called anyone who likes DA:O stupid or implied that - especially since I happen to like DA:O a great deal. If you can't handle seeing someone laugh at an idea or see sarcasm in action, well hey, not my problem.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 01 août 2011 - 10:31 .

[Kail Ashton]

Opinions are like bumholes, everyones got one and they all stink, move on all of you

[upsettingshorts]

Kail Ashton wrote...

Opinions are like bumholes, everyones got one and they all stink, move on all of you

Just as false as the idea that all opinions are inherently valuable.

If opinions weren't capable of being worth more or less than others, a skill like rhetoric wouldn't exist.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 01 août 2011 - 10:11 .

[Sylvianus]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

It's really funny that they ask the question. Well, you know, They are " experts "  in the behavior of the "haters" and those who pretend not too fond of the DA2. Always they they generalize, without reading a word of course which is marked when it is constructive.

You seem pretty fond of the sweeping generalizations yourself. 

Please indulge my curiosity. What part of "Everything in dao was complicated, deep and more subtle than anything in DA2. Just sayin '" is constructive? 

" The fans do not like change, that's not the game that has a problem but themself. The fans are nostalgic and stupid. Haters gonna hate, "etc..

But when it comes to bad behavior of  " true fans " loyal to BioWare, they have no ideas of bad behavior or bad ideas. The expertise of behavior and thought disappears.

If you don't actually say what it is you dislike about DA2 specifically, how can anyone take your opinion seriously? "Everything is worse in DA2" doesn't help Bioware make a better game, nor does it help anyone understand your reasoning.

I'm not excusing anyone else's behavior, and I'm not speaking for anyone but myself. I do think that you're rather hypocritical about the generalizations bit though. 

I simply said what I felt. I do not need to say IMO every time I make a comment. If you want to overreact to a sentence up to you, it does not affect me. It is a simple sentence and my comment had nothing to do with it, but since Erynnar spoke of this kind of thing,  I wanted to add my comment humorous not far from the truth.
I didn't try to be constructive, nor to attack the game, just establish a fact for me.

The cliche is meaningless and scream all the time about it can distort the trial of the writers and from that, I said that about the dao's story, everything was better. I just wanted to comment on that. No need to philosophize all the time.

Why didn't I develop ? because it's been four months that we repeat the same things, that the bsn repeat the same things, that the same topics are created with the same questions.

They are not useful any more in my opinion to Bioware. Bioware has already had the answers on it for a long time, we should move on to other things.

And the latest discussions which have been more attacks that discussions I was not impressed and I did not find them very useful. So, I haven't felt the need to develop what I have developed thousands of times in many topics.

They = some, not all. 

I read what I read, often the same sentences for some. Not my fault, if they repeat the same things.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 01 août 2011 - 10:24 .

[John Epler]

Let's try to get it on topic, and away from the petty bickering.

I'm going to leave it open with the idea that we -can- get it back on topic, but if this proves to not be true then I'll be locking it.