Aller au contenu

Photo

Legacy gives a glimpse of hope


213 réponses à ce sujet

#126
In Exile

In Exile
  • Members
  • 28 738 messages

Jcarlo123 wrote...

Bioware knows exactly what went wrong with DA2: They did not have enough time to make the game. They had what, 1 year?

Anyhow, they will pretend that DA2 is exactly the game they wanted to make, but that's BS. It's only the game that they could make under the time constraints. But since the game is still out there and they are still trying to sell it, none of them can admit openly yet that DA2's biggest problem is that it probably just should have had 6 months to a year more of development time.


That's still Bioware's fault. If they had a crunched timeline, then they should have cut an entire Act. Wanting to make a game that massive on a timeline that tight is their fault, and they should suffer for it if that's what the rationale was.

So I find it a bit perplexing that fans are gushing over the passable mediocrity that is "Legacy." "Legacy" is the level of quality DA2 SHOULD HAVE BEEN ALL ALONG! I don't see why Bioware should be awarded for releasing an awful rushed game for 60 dollars, then, 4 months later, charging people 10 dollars for 3 hours of content that comes closer to the standards that the original game should have been all along (albeit, only for 3 hours).

I don't see why you put up with that, much less pay them an extra 10 dollars for it.


...You like the content, think it's good, and don't really care for chest-thumping "principled" stands?

#127
hoorayforicecream

hoorayforicecream
  • Members
  • 3 420 messages

Black Arachnia wrote...

Shuma Gorath wrote...

Filament wrote...

If people bashing DA2 wouldn't present their opinions as if they were statements of fact perhaps they wouldn't be so rankling to people whose opinions conflict with those 'facts' as to warrant the snark. However people who bash DA2 are liable to snark at any hint of praise for DA2 no matter how tepid.


If people liking DA2 wouldn't present their opinions as if they were statements of fact perhaps they wouldn't be so rankling to people whose opinions conflict with those 'facts' as to warrant the snark. However people who love DA2 are liable to snark at any hint of hate for DA2 no matter how tepid.

Now the above statements have some truth to it.

Let's stop pretending one side is holier then the other.


That can't be right...those that love DA2 are Angels. The Chantry says so.

LoL


Can you two rein it in and bring it back on topic? You know post something that has to do with either the current discussion about rivalry/friendship, Legacy, or something that doesn't involve restarting an argument that was expressly warned against?

Here, I'll start.

I wish that the choice in Legacy had farther reaching consequences than it did. I enjoyed the branching aspect of the story, but wish that it left plot points open in the future for other stuff (e.g. perhaps if Janeka did get her way). The thing I found most refreshing, though, was that I could find lore snippets that supported the choice that I made as the right one, no matter which option I chose. 

#128
In Exile

In Exile
  • Members
  • 28 738 messages

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Oh I think they'd be fine if they are limited to the scope the writers seemed to intend.  


One big issue is that random things seemed to play in to friendship rivalry. I was excited about the system because its seemed to only come into play with major decisions, like the companion quests.

But it was just the approval metre from DA:O with new names for the outcomes and more nuanced outcomes for what rivalry was. 

#129
erynnar

erynnar
  • Members
  • 3 010 messages

Aaleel wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

I agree with everyone saying how the gifts in DA:O made the approval metre kinda pointless. That's why I play the game WITHOUT picking up any gifts expect for ones that add to the plot.


Yeah I liked pretty much everything about the Origins approval system except for the gifts.  I liked how you didn't get bonuses based of it, but your companions did.  Like you inspired them to fight harder through leadership. People had to actually like you and approve of you to romance them.  The gifts allowed you to avoid the consequences of your actions and messed the system up.  Far too many.


Same thing for me. I try not to give the gifts except that move the plot along. I did like that better in DA2. But I did have a hard time with the rivalry (being me competing with the other person, and no real consequences--Fen should have cut me down after Orana, or tried to).  I think red and rivalry are not good choices for that. And maybe a neutral option?

#130
Icinix

Icinix
  • Members
  • 8 188 messages

erynnar wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

I agree with everyone saying how the gifts in DA:O made the approval metre kinda pointless. That's why I play the game WITHOUT picking up any gifts expect for ones that add to the plot.


Yeah I liked pretty much everything about the Origins approval system except for the gifts.  I liked how you didn't get bonuses based of it, but your companions did.  Like you inspired them to fight harder through leadership. People had to actually like you and approve of you to romance them.  The gifts allowed you to avoid the consequences of your actions and messed the system up.  Far too many.


Same thing for me. I try not to give the gifts except that move the plot along. I did like that better in DA2. But I did have a hard time with the rivalry (being me competing with the other person, and no real consequences--Fen should have cut me down after Orana, or tried to).  I think red and rivalry are not good choices for that. And maybe a neutral option?





Same. Pretty much gave up on willpower when I used gifts and spammed them to get +relationships - even though I was a jerk in DAO.  The friendship / rivalry in DA2 was a step in the right direction - but needed to be a little more fleshed out with heavier consequences, I mean I treated Anders like rubbish (he deserved it though) and all he pretty much did was "Yes sir, no sir, sorry sir.".

#131
oldmansavage

oldmansavage
  • Members
  • 286 messages
statue dude "Do you wanna play DA legacy?  Yes/No??"

Hahahah. I mean c'mon seriously? 

#132
Cutlass Jack

Cutlass Jack
  • Members
  • 8 091 messages
I'm sorry, were you expecting a deep conversation with a statue?

#133
Guest_Puddi III_*

Guest_Puddi III_*
  • Guests
I was. :P

#134
Cutlass Jack

Cutlass Jack
  • Members
  • 8 091 messages

Filament wrote...

I was. :P


Damn, how did you know I was thinking of that scene? Get out of my head!

#135
Sakatox

Sakatox
  • Members
  • 46 messages
"Legacy gives a glimpse of hope" and fails to deliver.

I'm pretty sure this will get removed, but here it goes...

*SPOILERS*


>Bring Anders
>Anders is already possessed
>"revelations" across the dlc actually make him have second thoughts.
>makes perfect sense he gets possessed by BOTH Corypheus and JUSTICE at the same time.
>summons two shades and gets on with it
Killing "Anders" never felt so great.


HHepler's stellar writing has shown its teeth again. TWEEST at the end, either way, no matter how you side with who.

They took the idea of the archedemon respawning in the nearest darkspawn with no grey wardens present, tried to twist it like very much but ended up doing a gigantic plothole of stupidity.
Whoever you side with the last moment will get possessed at the end ala archedemon respawning in nearest darkspawn without grey wardens. Thing is, i had not only one, but TWO Grey Wardens. But since this is stellar writing, we can't have this self-contained(or so we think) story affect the main one at all.
The result is either a femwarden or a malewarden possessed(not your party members, nope!) the question remains, why? But it's something that answers itself : Dragon Age 2, HHepler, yadda yadda.

Add on top of that the whole story begins with a placeable statue in the Hawke Estate, not unlike many mods in KOTOR1-2. Guess they ran out of ideas and just said, why not do it that way. Thing is, they didn't even try to fit it into the main story.

At one point, Anders is having a fun conversation about his plight with Carver, then Anders asks about CARVER - standing next to him - that has he wrote a letter after her mother's passing YET(or something like that.). Programming just totally disregarded Carver's presence.

Artwise and reused areas-wise, they "learned their lesson" and it's now not whole areas completely but small chunks of areas here or there, inbetween some hastily thrown together places. The vimmark mountains look like Kirkwall in a DESERT MOUNTAIN - not like Kirkwall isn't a desert itself in the lower places. They even disregard that you are supposed to be venturing through the deep roads while getting to the prison, because when you leave, it's the same reused Kirkwall door you see EVERYWHERE.

Carver is still a plank, just more weepy.
Same goes for Bethany.

Fenris didn't have any relevance at all, maybe that Corypheus *IS* a tevinter magister of old. It's also funny that they try to make Corypheus into the reason why Kirkwall's veil is thin!

Isabela? Hepler's writing made her out to be more of a smelly std ridden pretty girl. Every second comment about the surroundings or npcs was how they smell because something something - like age, or prison, or taint, or whatever. The other comments are always TREASURE.

Aveline? No.
Sebastian? Didn't bother fiddling in the console more to get him too
Varric? Gets a little lore update about house Tethras and his ancestors. How the hell cared, anyway? He kept saying to Cassandra she wouldn't believe. I still don't.
Merrill? Oh look, blood magic everywhere! so RELEVANT.

Back to Hawke: He is now turned into the "Hero who saves the day despite not being a grey warden", but still falls short on the "Should i give two flyings about him?" part. It's like he's not relevant at all and the Hepler wanted to give Hawke more emphasis. THEY WANT YOUR BLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD.

How did they make Hawke into the almost-tragic-hero afterwards? They tied her mother into the story with Larius, who kidnapped her to make Malcolm go with him. Such deep writing.

It's totally not like my previous character in DA:O, the Warden-Commander, a mage himself from the Amell family, couldn't free him and beat him and then let him possess another human, nah. It had to be HAWKE.

Conclusions: They totally botched the lore in favor of TWEESTS and GREAT, DEEP, DARK, EDGY STORYTELLING. Our choices matter not at all! Typical.

Then they even dared to advertise this as "We learned our lesson, this will fix DA2".
Boy, you all couldn't be more wrong. This is not worth the money.

EDIT: Not to mention, they tried to tie everything into Corypheus and Hawke, how they are all so important. It made me sick after the fourth or fifth codex entry regarding them.

I also seem to have forgotten to mention the GENLOCKS. They were advertised as an EXCLUSIVELY ALL NEW, NEVER BEFORE SEEN NEW TYPE OF DARKSPAWN. They were in DA:O and DA:O-A and any dlc that dealt with darkspawn. Not to mention they look like Dwarves on steroids with gorilla arms, not to mention the occasional alpha that has a big.....shield. It's totally not like they took the ogre, resized it, slapped on some new arms and a new head and called it a day. Totally not like that.

It's an item pack, with less reusing areas and more reusing chunks of areas. The whole DLC was littered with Corridor fighting and guess how they cured Another Wave? They turned it off and made enemies spawn continuously in small rooms around the battlefield.

Completely not like DA2, really... it's just they don't shout ANOTHER WAVE and that they spawn it more away from you then on top of you. DA:O and DA:O-A actually had the nerve to use only as much enemies as they placed already spawned on the map!

An expansion is pricy nowadays. A good expansion would be NWN2's mask of the betrayer. This isn't the case at all, since in Awakening's case, they even advertised it as an expansion dlc.

So, it's not an expansion and certainly not too many hours long. Just a really dragged on boring Kirkwall assets *quest*.


*END SPOILERS*
Shamefur dispray, end of rine for BioWare, be .... you know the drill.
Ps: If someone, like me for example, gets banned because saying things, fine, go ahead. It won't make your game magically sell better. You [BW] will also gain an enemy, one that is pretty vocal.

Modifié par Sakatox, 02 août 2011 - 06:24 .


#136
Black Arachnia

Black Arachnia
  • Members
  • 39 messages

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Black Arachnia wrote...

Shuma Gorath wrote...

Filament wrote...

If people bashing DA2 wouldn't present their opinions as if they were statements of fact perhaps they wouldn't be so rankling to people whose opinions conflict with those 'facts' as to warrant the snark. However people who bash DA2 are liable to snark at any hint of praise for DA2 no matter how tepid.


If people liking DA2 wouldn't present their opinions as if they were statements of fact perhaps they wouldn't be so rankling to people whose opinions conflict with those 'facts' as to warrant the snark. However people who love DA2 are liable to snark at any hint of hate for DA2 no matter how tepid.

Now the above statements have some truth to it.

Let's stop pretending one side is holier then the other.


That can't be right...those that love DA2 are Angels. The Chantry says so.

LoL


Can you two rein it in and bring it back on topic? You know post something that has to do with either the current discussion about rivalry/friendship, Legacy, or something that doesn't involve restarting an argument that was expressly warned against?

Here, I'll start.

I wish that the choice in Legacy had farther reaching consequences than it did. I enjoyed the branching aspect of the story, but wish that it left plot points open in the future for other stuff (e.g. perhaps if Janeka did get her way). The thing I found most refreshing, though, was that I could find lore snippets that supported the choice that I made as the right one, no matter which option I chose. 


Not much to say about Legacy since it wasn't supposed to fix all the issues with DA2, and barely touches many of the other concerns people have on the direction that this franchise has taken. Not to mention that its plagued by bugs and some people will try to make you believe that because they didn't have the bugs they don't exhist.

#137
Bombardist

Bombardist
  • Members
  • 147 messages
I myself havent yet played legacy but you;ve got to keep in mind gaming websites have to look at certain criteria. So the reviewer may have liked the DLC but he cant just give it a high rating because of his personal liking of it.

#138
Bryy_Miller

Bryy_Miller
  • Members
  • 7 676 messages

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I admit it takes balls to say Oblivion is ****


Oblivion was ****e. There. Not very hard.

See how fun opinions can be?

#139
AtreiyaN7

AtreiyaN7
  • Members
  • 8 398 messages

Sakatox wrote...

*snips wall of text*


They didn't say the genlocks were new - the genlock alpha with the shield was new, and it was different.

#140
Sakatox

Sakatox
  • Members
  • 46 messages

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Sakatox wrote...

*snips wall of text*


They didn't say the genlocks were new - the genlock alpha with the shield was new, and it was different.


I guess i misheard stuff then, that doesn't change the fact of everything else in my last post.

#141
Demon Velsper

Demon Velsper
  • Members
  • 386 messages

JohnEpler wrote...
I'm going to leave it open with the idea that we -can- get it back on topic, but if this proves to not be true then I'll be locking it.

But John, any topic is organic. Certain things are brought up and commented on.

If you have a problem with this, then perhaps forums are not for you.

#142
AtreiyaN7

AtreiyaN7
  • Members
  • 8 398 messages

Sakatox wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Sakatox wrote...

*snips wall of text*


They didn't say the genlocks were new - the genlock alpha with the shield was new, and it was different.


I guess i misheard stuff then, that doesn't change the fact of everything else in my last post.


Yeah, and by "facts" you mean "your opinion."

#143
Alright-Television

Alright-Television
  • Members
  • 144 messages
Glimmer of hope, you say?

1. Enemies still spawn out of thin air right before your eyes. The difference is this time they do it in a small side room (with no other exit) from which they can run out of and attack.

2. "Hey, Hawke, is your brother alive?" "Yes, he's standing next to me." "Tell him to write to you and your mother before she dies, alright?" "Go to hell."
I suppose it could be explained that this adventure takes place before the events of Act 2, after Carver leaves, but there's a continuity issue either way.

3. Tactical combat nowhere to be seen. To be fair, I had no expectations.

Glimmer of hope? More like shimmer of mope, am I right?

#144
Sister Helen

Sister Helen
  • Members
  • 574 messages
I enjoyed the DLC quite a bit. The banter between party members was pretty good, and I'll be replaying (at the very least) the beginning bits with all my party members, to see what they have to say to Hawke and to each other.

I especially liked the long, silent, "can you believe this guy?" look Varric and Hawke exchanged in the very beginning after Cutter-the-Warden made a particularly snide comment about Hawke.

Posted Image

Modifié par Sister Helen, 02 août 2011 - 11:07 .


#145
TEWR

TEWR
  • Members
  • 16 994 messages

Alright-Television wrote...

Glimmer of hope, you say?

1. Enemies still spawn out of thin air right before your eyes. The difference is this time they do it in a small side room (with no other exit) from which they can run out of and attack.


Just like in Origins where the exact same thing happened.

2. "Hey, Hawke, is your brother alive?" "Yes, he's standing next to me." "Tell him to write to you and your mother before she dies, alright?" "Go to hell."
I suppose it could be explained that this adventure takes place before the events of Act 2, after Carver leaves, but there's a continuity issue either way.


Meh I wouldn't call that a big issue.

3. Tactical combat nowhere to be seen. To be fair, I had no expectations.

Glimmer of hope? More like shimmer of mope, am I right?



Because DAO had tactical combat in abundance! Posted Image [/sarcasm]


The DA series has NEVER had tactical combat. All DAO had was attacking and drinking potions. If you played on a "harder" mode, the only difference was that you did less damage, your foes had more health, and they did slightly more damage. That's hardly tactical. That's just incredibly cheap.

#146
nitefyre410

nitefyre410
  • Members
  • 8 944 messages

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Alright-Television wrote...

Glimmer of hope, you say?

1. Enemies still spawn out of thin air right before your eyes. The difference is this time they do it in a small side room (with no other exit) from which they can run out of and attack.


Just like in Origins where the exact same thing happened.

2. "Hey, Hawke, is your brother alive?" "Yes, he's standing next to me." "Tell him to write to you and your mother before she dies, alright?" "Go to hell."
I suppose it could be explained that this adventure takes place before the events of Act 2, after Carver leaves, but there's a continuity issue either way.


Meh I wouldn't call that a big issue.

3. Tactical combat nowhere to be seen. To be fair, I had no expectations.

Glimmer of hope? More like shimmer of mope, am I right?



Because DAO had tactical combat in abundance! Posted Image [/sarcasm]


The DA series has NEVER had tactical combat. All DAO had was attacking and drinking potions. If you played on a "harder" mode, the only difference was that you did less damage, your foes had more health, and they did slightly more damage. That's hardly tactical. That's just incredibly cheap.

   



agreed and its something that a lot of games do and have been doing - World of Warcraft comes to mind. Lets gives these guys more health, harder hiting spells and stooppid mechanics... yeah its harder.  No  it is cheap and the two do equate

#147
Alright-Television

Alright-Television
  • Members
  • 144 messages

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Alright-Television wrote...

Glimmer of hope, you say?

1. Enemies still spawn out of thin air right before your eyes. The difference is this time they do it in a small side room (with no other exit) from which they can run out of and attack.


Just like in Origins where the exact same thing happened.

Give me an example of where this happened. Origins have enemies that stand in place waiting to attack you. They don't just suddenly appear out of nowhere. Well, unless your draw distance sucks.

2. "Hey, Hawke, is your brother alive?" "Yes, he's standing next to me." "Tell him to write to you and your mother before she dies, alright?" "Go to hell."
I suppose it could be explained that this adventure takes place before the events of Act 2, after Carver leaves, but there's a continuity issue either way.


Meh I wouldn't call that a big issue.

Me neither, it's a continuity and logical issue after all.

3. Tactical combat nowhere to be seen. To be fair, I had no expectations.

Glimmer of hope? More like shimmer of mope, am I right?



Because DAO had tactical combat in abundance! Posted Image [/sarcasm]

I am once again stupified at where you got DAO from. Can't you let Legacy and Dragon Age 2 stand on their own legs for once? BioWare touted Legacy's combat as more tactical than DA2's. It wasn't. What a surprise.

Modifié par Alright-Television, 02 août 2011 - 12:09 .


#148
John Epler

John Epler
  • BioWare Employees
  • 3 390 messages

Demon Velsper wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...
I'm going to leave it open with the idea that we -can- get it back on topic, but if this proves to not be true then I'll be locking it.

But John, any topic is organic. Certain things are brought up and commented on.

If you have a problem with this, then perhaps forums are not for you.


The difference between that situation and this one, of course, is that in this case, the topic that the conversation had shifted to was that of insults and snide remarks.

Which you no doubt knew, of course, but chose to ignore in an attempt to make a snarky comment. Which really isn't what these forums are for, sorry.

#149
TobiTobsen

TobiTobsen
  • Members
  • 3 297 messages
Glimpse of hope? You mean we can meet female dwarves?

#150
FieryDove

FieryDove
  • Members
  • 2 637 messages

Cutlass Jack wrote...

I'm sorry, were you expecting a deep conversation with a statue?


I was...oh you are talking about the other statue in my house...my bad. Posted Image