213 réponses à ce sujet

[Sutekh]

Alright-Television wrote...

Give me an example of where this happened. Origins have enemies that stand in place waiting to attack you. They don't just suddenly appear out of nowhere. Well, unless your draw distance sucks.

Redcliffe, with the undead, on several occasions.

Brecilian Forest, with the bears.

Deep Roads, after meeting Branka (I remember an Ogre appearing just before my eyes).

Broodmother fight.

Battle of Redcliffe (Darkspawn).

Battle of Denerim, especially the Alienage part on the bridge and both parts at the gates.

Archdemon fight.

Various "random" encounters.

I won't mention "any fight with spiders involved" because it makes sense that spiders would hide in the surroundings, same with deepstalkers, shrieks and rage demons.

Anyway, there were instances when that happened, and sometimes just as badly executed as people falling from the sky. And my drawing distance is just fine, it just depends on where your character stands when it happens. If you're close enough to the spawning spot, there you have it.

Modifié par Sutekh, 02 août 2011 - 02:46 .

[Aaleel]

I don't recall any fights in Origins where enemies just just appeared right on top of the party. I recall them all running into the fray, and there was definitely nothing on a level of just falling out the sky on top of the party.

During the Archdemon fight. they came out doors, I don't remember any darkspawn just appearing on the battlefield. In Redcliffe they came running down the hill into the fray. The Broodmother fight they came running in from the borders too.  In Denerim they appeared from gate areas Alienage, or from around buildings in the markets.

There are some fights where enemies appear in the distance and run in, and don't come from the borders, but I never remember fights where enemies just appeared in the middle of the fray right on top of the party.

Modifié par Aaleel, 02 août 2011 - 03:02 .

[Sister Helen]

DA2 is the Seeker's visualization of a story she is being told by an (unreliable) storyteller, Varric.

When someone tells you a story, you don't visualize every detail. Varric may have said, as hyperbole, "oh, there were fighters everywhere, coming at Hawke, from the alleys, the docks, even the rooftops, if you could only have seen it..." So the Seeker may have visualized baddies dropping from the sky in DA2.

In Legacy, it's the same framework of Varric telling a story to the Seeker, but it may be he dialed back on the hyperbole a bit, based on his reluctance to even tell the story in the first place. "Well, there were a lot of baddies, and they were tougher than yer typical Carta folks, with weird eyes, but it wasn't anything Hawke couldn't handle..."

[Mykel54]

Sister Helen wrote...

DA2 is the Seeker's visualization of a story she is being told by an (unreliable) storyteller, Varric.

When someone tells you a story, you don't visualize every detail. Varric may have said, as hyperbole, "oh, there were fighters everywhere, coming at Hawke, from the alleys, the docks, even the rooftops, if you could only have seen it..." So the Seeker may have visualized baddies dropping from the sky in DA2.

In Legacy, it's the same framework of Varric telling a story to the Seeker, but it may be he dialed back on the hyperbole a bit, based on his reluctance to even tell the story in the first place. "Well, there were a lot of baddies, and they were tougher than yer typical Carta folks, with weird eyes, but it wasn't anything Hawke couldn't handle..."

I hate when people do this, you are basically justifying the cheap design decisions of the game based on the framed narrative. The only exaggerated scene that fits your description was when Varric fights agaisnt Bartrand one on one, the rest should be exactly as it played out. What is the point of playing a game where everything can later be easily retconed as "varric adding flavor to the story"?. I don´t know how anyone can possibly justfiy the shortcomings of DA2 based on the framed narrative, i could say that the recycled dungeons were only the result of the short imagination of Varric, or how Varric seems to remember how hawke recovered the beloved pants of a complete stranger. My point is, please don´t use the framed narrative as an excuse for the game quality.

[Cutlass Jack]

You don't have to like it, but it is part of the story.

[TGiNcRySiS]

So I bought the DLC. Then I watched the Gamespot review and how buggy it was with the boss battle as well as some of the other enemy battles. Has anyone else run into these issues?

[Who is that Masked Man]

TGiNcRySiS wrote...

So I bought the DLC. Then I watched the Gamespot review and how buggy it was with the boss battle as well as some of the other enemy battles. Has anyone else run into these issues?

Some people have, yes. Others (like me) have not.

Since you've already bought the DLC it's a little bit late for second thoughts, isn't it? Why don't you just try it and see for yourself.

[Cutlass Jack]

TGiNcRySiS wrote...

So I bought the DLC. Then I watched the Gamespot review and how buggy it was with the boss battle as well as some of the other enemy battles. Has anyone else run into these issues?

Not a single one on multiple machines. A few have, but nowhere near the level that review seems to imply.

[TGiNcRySiS]

Who is that Masked Man wrote...

TGiNcRySiS wrote...

So I bought the DLC. Then I watched the Gamespot review and how buggy it was with the boss battle as well as some of the other enemy battles. Has anyone else run into these issues?

Some people have, yes. Others (like me) have not.

Since you've already bought the DLC it's a little bit late for second thoughts, isn't it? Why don't you just try it and see for yourself.

Just curious to if it was widespread or gamespot exaggerating again.  I'm still going to play it but I just wanted to see how many experienced the problems portrayed in the review.

[hoorayforicecream]

Aaleel wrote...

I don't recall any fights in Origins where enemies just just appeared right on top of the party. I recall them all running into the fray, and there was definitely nothing on a level of just falling out the sky on top of the party.

During the Archdemon fight. they came out doors, I don't remember any darkspawn just appearing on the battlefield. In Redcliffe they came running down the hill into the fray. The Broodmother fight they came running in from the borders too.  In Denerim they appeared from gate areas Alienage, or from around buildings in the markets.

There are some fights where enemies appear in the distance and run in, and don't come from the borders, but I never remember fights where enemies just appeared in the middle of the fray right on top of the party.

I had enemies spawn under my feet during the Redcliffe undead fight a few times. It's harder to blunder into by accident than DA2, but it's definitely there.

[Alright-Television]

I remember how some undead enemies in Origins lie on the ground and rises up when you get close. I wouldn't call this spawning. Is it possible that your character was standing on a corpse?

edit: Alright-Television, Ace Attorney.

Modifié par Alright-Television, 02 août 2011 - 05:02 .

[Sutekh]

Aaleel wrote...

I don't recall any fights in Origins where enemies just just appeared right on top of the party. I recall them all running into the fray, and there was definitely nothing on a level of just falling out the sky on top of the party.

Not on top, because they don't fall from the sky, but right in the middle of the party? Yep.

That ogre I mentioned: party was standing in the corridor that gives onto the large room where you meet Branka. First playthrough, I thought the battle was over and was on my way out and *bamf!* here's the big bad ogre and his fellow 'spawn. It doesn't appear from a distance in the corridor, mind, it just teleports right before you, or in this case, between Oghren and my Warden. Nearly gave me a heart attack.

As I said, it depends on how close the party's standing to the spawning spot at that moment, but it can be very obvious. Try standing in the gates during the ending Darkspawn battles or on the bridge in the Alienage. You will see them appear out of nowhere.

But yes, it never reaches DA2's level of Magical Performance of Dazzling Apparition.

[Aaleel]

Sutekh wrote...

Not on top, because they don't fall from the sky, but right in the middle of the party? Yep.

That ogre I mentioned: party was standing in the corridor that gives onto the large room where you meet Branka. First playthrough, I thought the battle was over and was on my way out and *bamf!* here's the big bad ogre and his fellow 'spawn. It doesn't appear from a distance in the corridor, mind, it just teleports right before you, or in this case, between Oghren and my Warden. Nearly gave me a heart attack.

As I said, it depends on how close the party's standing to the spawning spot at that moment, but it can be very obvious. Try standing in the gates during the ending Darkspawn battles or on the bridge in the Alienage. You will see them appear out of nowhere.

But yes, it never reaches DA2's level of Magical Performance of Dazzling Apparition.

A lot of the examples you're talking about, you have to go all the way to the end of the area, where your character pretty much can't go any further and that's where they spawn.  They have to come from somewhere, 

In Redcliffe if you run through the burning oil, up the hill all the way to gate where you can't go any farther, yeah they spawn there.

In the Alienage if you run through the big gate, through the next area, and all the way to the dark area where you can't hardly go any farther, yeah they spawn there.

You really have to go looking for the spawn areas in order to find them, but in none of the cases were they in places I would have my party if I hadn't just been messing around.

[hoorayforicecream]

Alright-Television wrote...

I remember how some undead enemies in Origins lie on the ground and rises up when you get close. I wouldn't call this spawning. Is it possible that your character was standing on a corpse?

edit: Alright-Television, Ace Attorney.

Definitely not. It was the redcliffe undead battle, with all the AI helpers. If you're fighting further out (a well-built party will do that without much trouble), it's pretty easy for them to start spawning under your melee party members' feet.

[Sutekh]

Aaleel wrote...

A lot of the examples you're talking about, you have to go all the way to the end of the area, where your character pretty much can't go any further and that's where they spawn.  They have to come from somewhere, 

In Redcliffe if you run through the burning oil, up the hill all the way to gate where you can't go any farther, yeah they spawn there.

In the Alienage if you run through the big gate, through the next area, and all the way to the dark area where you can't hardly go any farther, yeah they spawn there.

You really have to go looking for the spawn areas in order to find them, but in none of the cases were they in places I would have my party if I hadn't just been messing around.

Hmm. That's not the point. The point is: does that happen or not? The answer is: yes, it does. Extenuating circumstances not considered, because if we go there, I could find some for DA2 too. Playing Devil's Advocate is fun.

And in most cases, you don't have to "mess around" for it to happen. If you play aggressively, going after the enemy instead of waiting for them to get you, as I do every single time in the Alienage battle once I've cleared the first wave, you will find yourself on that bridge, at that very spot. Same with Redcliffe undead etc... It's not that hard to reproduce, and it's not a freak accident either.

[Alright-Television]

Would you be willing to reproduce it then?

[Sutekh]

Alright-Television wrote...

Would you be willing to reproduce it then?

Yep. And then what?

[Aaleel]

Sutekh wrote...

Hmm. That's not the point. The point is: does that happen or not? The answer is: yes, it does. Extenuating circumstances not considered, because if we go there, I could find some for DA2 too. Playing Devil's Advocate is fun.

And in most cases, you don't have to "mess around" for it to happen. If you play aggressively, going after the enemy instead of waiting for them to get you, as I do every single time in the Alienage battle once I've cleared the first wave, you will find yourself on that bridge, at that very spot. Same with Redcliffe undead etc... It's not that hard to reproduce, and it's not a freak accident either.

What do you mean that's not the point.  Unless you're playing in one large continuous area the enemies have to:
1) Already be set on the field (Which would make no sense in situations where they're invading the area) or
2) Spawn somewhere on the field to enter the battle.

They're no other options.  The difference in the two games is:

1) In Origins they spawn on the borders of the area from doors, bridges, stairs, tunnels and run into the main area.  IE logical places and logical manner.

2) And in DA2, even though there are stairs, tunnels, doors, etc in the vicinity they still just appear in the middle of the area and right into battle, sometimes falling from the sky or ceiling.  IE, illogical places and illogical manner.

[Alright-Television]

Sutekh wrote...

Alright-Television wrote...

Would you be willing to reproduce it then?

Yep. And then what?

Do a little dance?

Show me.

Modifié par Alright-Television, 02 août 2011 - 05:47 .

[Sutekh]

Aaleel wrote...

What do you mean that's not the point.  Unless you're playing in one large continuous area the enemies have to:
1) Already be set on the field (Which would make no sense in situations where they're invading the area) or
2) Spawn somewhere on the field to enter the battle.

They're no other options.  The difference in the two games is:

1) In Origins they spawn on the borders of the area from doors, bridges, stairs, tunnels and run into the main area.  IE logical places and logical manner.

2) And in DA2, even though there are stairs, tunnels, doors, etc in the vicinity they still just appear in the middle of the area and right into battle, sometimes falling from the sky or ceiling.  IE, illogical places and illogical manner.

No, the point is does it happen in DAO that enemies appear right before your eyes. Not whether it's justified or better staged than in DA2. Saying that DAO has better enemy placement than DA2 as a whole is not even debatable, it's obvious.

That's my only damn point. I wasn't making a DA2 comparison, except when I said that DA2 has it much, much worse.

re: your point 2. Of course they have to spawn somewhere, but in the bridge case or the Deep Roads corridor, why not make them spawn in a spot the player can't see or go to, such as the other end of the bridge, for instance?

@Alright Television

OK. If I ever find the time, I'll make a video of the bridge battle, upload it somewhere and give you a link. I'll have to reacquaint myself with DAO's combat though. Anyway, sounds fair?

[snackrat]

I'd say Legacy was SEVERAL steps in the right direction. Much more meaning (emotionally if not in DLC flag checks) to the choices, and gave Hawke him/herself more meaning as well (though he is starting to look a little Marty Stu-ish unfortunately, with all the greatest deeds being inevitably tied to him). Environments were new, detailed, and look amazing. Fights were fresh and much better designed, making going back to the original campaign a real drag in comparison. Dialogue and added banter made me *squee* with delight and run over triggers multiple times!

The only concern I feel most would have is the unrealistic sizes of the "Hawke Key" weapons, a primary gripe for many users. I have no real problem with the original weapons (except Hayden's razor. Who was Hayden, a cliff crasher?!) but the new ones seems like Bioware is trying to troll us by making us carry around a gold plated support structure on our back. The weapons themselves, also, had extremely weak-sauce enchantments (even with the good base damage) which made them unfavourable compared to the better stuff I already had, so that encourages save-game editing just to increase potency or add rune slots. Silly looks and silly stats made the Key a quick storage item for me.

Also: having only one Chunky Dagger of Power throughout the DLC made me sad, since I always like my daggers to match visually so my character doesn't look like a dumpster-diver. Alas, this was not to be (though you wouldn't get a shield with your sword either, no doubt), though I suppose I could try using a save editor to copy the model onto that of the mate-less Finesse or something.

[Sakatox]

Karsciyin wrote...

I'd say Legacy was SEVERAL steps in the right direction. Much more meaning (emotionally if not in DLC flag checks) to the choices, and gave Hawke him/herself more meaning as well (though he is starting to look a little Marty Stu-ish unfortunately, with all the greatest deeds being inevitably tied to him). Environments were new, detailed, and look amazing. Fights were fresh and much better designed, making going back to the original campaign a real drag in comparison. Dialogue and added banter made me *squee* with delight and run over triggers multiple times!

The only concern I feel most would have is the unrealistic sizes of the "Hawke Key" weapons, a primary gripe for many users. I have no real problem with the original weapons (except Hayden's razor. Who was Hayden, a cliff crasher?!) but the new ones seems like Bioware is trying to troll us by making us carry around a gold plated support structure on our back. The weapons themselves, also, had extremely weak-sauce enchantments (even with the good base damage) which made them unfavourable compared to the better stuff I already had, so that encourages save-game editing just to increase potency or add rune slots. Silly looks and silly stats made the Key a quick storage item for me.

Also: having only one Chunky Dagger of Power throughout the DLC made me sad, since I always like my daggers to match visually so my character doesn't look like a dumpster-diver. Alas, this was not to be (though you wouldn't get a shield with your sword either, no doubt), though I suppose I could try using a save editor to copy the model onto that of the mate-less Finesse or something.

New and Detailed? did we play the same dlc? Most of the time it was Kirkwall's rundown assets with some more sand and deep roads slapped inbetween. Not to mention they reused CHUNKS of areas, instead of whole areas. Still not good enough, but more than what DA2 could ever show.

I'm still saying it's a waste of money for anyone not exactly interested.

[JaegerBane]

Karsciyin wrote...
The only concern I feel most would have is the unrealistic sizes of the "Hawke Key" weapons, a primary gripe for many users. I have no real problem with the original weapons (except Hayden's razor. Who was Hayden, a cliff crasher?!) but the new ones seems like Bioware is trying to troll us by making us carry around a gold plated support structure on our back. The weapons themselves, also, had extremely weak-sauce enchantments (even with the good base damage) which made them unfavourable compared to the better stuff I already had, so that encourages save-game editing just to increase potency or add rune slots. Silly looks and silly stats made the Key a quick storage item for me.

The size, the model, the enchantments, practically everything about that thing sucked donkey balls. The base damage was good, but you're absolutely right about the enchantments - for a mage, it just didn't stack up compared to Malcolm's Honor or The Final Thought.

I could have put up with all that, but I really have to wonder whether any of the artists genuinely intended for the players to actually *like* that thing. It looked absurd.

It doesn't matter, though - I preferred Malcolm's Honor since I first wielded it so I wasn't really looking for a new staff - Malcolm's old staff blows the rest away.

[oldmansavage]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

I'm sorry, were you expecting a deep conversation with a statue?

I know this is going to sound odd to a lot of you folks, but  I wasn't expecting to have a conversation with a statue at all, crazy I know.  But after playing the rest of DA 2 it is pretty much par for course, so yeah I shouldn't be too surprised.

[Sakatox]

I can feel it... inside me!