404 réponses à ce sujet

[Zanallen]

My issue with holding public office is merely one of mind control. If someone with no real influence suddenly starts benefiting from the decisions of others and is raised to a position of command, there will be suspicions. However, if someone already holds the power of command, the effects of mind control would be less noticeable. However, I would allow a caveat for people born as heir. Being a mage shouldn't deny someone their birthright, after all.

Modifié par Zanallen, 06 août 2011 - 03:25 .

[Ryzaki]

Nah I would make it so mages couldn't have positions of power. It's not fair but hey...life's not fair. Get used to it buddy.

[Sajuro]

Ryzaki wrote...

Nah I would make it so mages couldn't have positions of power. It's not fair but hey...life's not fair. Get used to it buddy.

Would there also be a test to make sure crazies didn't come into power?

[dragonflight288]

Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him.

Foul and corrupt are they

Who have taken His gift

And turned it against His children.

They shall be named Maleficar, accursed ones.

According to the Chantry and the Templars, that first line alone is enough to keep mages from having an inheritance. The rest of the stanza is often overlooked. Andraste was talking about Maleficar who us magic against civilians like mind control, not all mages in general.

[CrimsonZephyr]

Zanallen wrote...

My issue with holding public office is merely one of mind control. If someone with no real influence suddenly starts benefiting from the decisions of others and is raised to a position of command, there will be suspicions. However, if someone already holds the power of command, the effects of mind control would be less noticeable. However, I would allow a caveat for people born as heir. Being a mage shouldn't deny someone their birthright, after all.

So, could mages own land, inherit financial assets, etc, with the stipulation that they are not to actually participate in government? I don't see how a ban on political participation should limit them from making their own money legitimately.

[GavrielKay]

Ulicus wrote...

GavrielKay wrote...

Um, huh?  Thinking that the Templars shouldn't be allowed to create Tranquils is pretty much the opposite of thinking they should be allowed to abuse them.

To be clear, I'm objecting solely to the position that tranquility is a "fate worse than death" that transforms a mage into a non-person.

The tranquil are capable of reasoning, forming opinions and, yes, holding preferences. They are not robots. They are people.

Do I think the rite of tranquility is sunshine and flowers? No. Would I prefer an alternative? Of course. Do I think it's awful to fundamentally change a person on that level? Yes... but I'm not going to insist that they cease to a person because they don't experience the world in the same way as I do. They continue to live and have a right to that life.

They aren't less than human, they suffer something that is ongoing rather than quick and over.  They have the ability to continue to be abused should a Templar be of the mind to, which a dead and buried mage doesn't.  They can be used by their oppressors to continue to make money and performs tasks - which a dead mage can't. In those ways only is it a fate worse than death.  I do not at all advocate de-humanizing them in a way which gives anyone the idea that it is alright to abuse them.

What I want is for Meredith and Elthina to quit acting llike it's no big deal that one among them wants to Tranquil every mage in Thedas.  The mere fact that he was so insane as to think his Tranquil Solution was a good idea should have disqualified him from ever working with mages again.

[Ryzaki]

Sajuro wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Nah I would make it so mages couldn't have positions of power. It's not fair but hey...life's not fair. Get used to it buddy.

Would there also be a test to make sure crazies didn't come into power?

Hell yeah. We can claim all the idiots and crazies are bloodmage thralls and kill em. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 août 2011 - 04:54 .

[GavrielKay]

Sajuro wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Nah I would make it so mages couldn't have positions of power. It's not fair but hey...life's not fair. Get used to it buddy.

Would there also be a test to make sure crazies didn't come into power?

This.

I'd rather have a competent and all around good guy who happened to be a mage in the government over a corrupt scumbag like the guy in Denerim who thought it was fun to rape city elves.

[Sinaxi]

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

Wait. What?

Modifié par Tidra, 06 août 2011 - 04:59 .

[CrimsonZephyr]

Ryzaki wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Nah I would make it so mages couldn't have positions of power. It's not fair but hey...life's not fair. Get used to it buddy.

Would there also be a test to make sure crazies didn't come into power?

Hell yeah. We can claim all the idiots and crazies are bloodmage thralls and kill em. 

That might actually work out better than expected.

[Zanallen]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

So, could mages own land, inherit financial assets, etc, with the stipulation that they are not to actually participate in government? I don't see how a ban on political participation should limit them from making their own money legitimately.

They could own and inherit. They could even be born as heir to a government position; like Connor for instance. However, they could not become mayor or hold a government office through some means other than inheritance.

[jlb524]

My Warden and Hawke are blood mages and they will have power...suck on that.

[Zanallen]

jlb524 wrote...

My Warden and Hawke are blood mages and they will have power...suck on that.

My Warden and Hawke both kill blood mages while protecting the innocent, so suck on that.

[jlb524]

Zanallen wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

My Warden and Hawke are blood mages and they will have power...suck on that.

My Warden and Hawke both kill blood mages while protecting the innocent, so suck on that.

Oh, how quaint. 

[nitefyre410]

Tidra wrote...

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

Wait. What?

+10  internets for you ... The Sith Credo - one of the best stop and pause moments of  KOTOR and makes really think about the what the real difference between the two are.

[Rifneno]

GavrielKay wrote...

I'd rather have a competent and all around good guy who happened to be a mage in the government over a corrupt scumbag like the guy in Denerim who thought it was fun to rape city elves.

This is the kind of thing that makes me wonder why people think it's worth any price to avoid any risk of mages going Tevinter.  Yes, Tevinter sucks.  But so does the rest of Thedas.  Every country we've seen is full of those in power abusing those with no status in sickening ways.  It's going to be a real kick in DA3, presumably set in Orlais where it's a crime of "the highest order" to fight back when a chevalier tries to rape you or a loved one.

[KotorEffect3]

Rifneno wrote...

GavrielKay wrote...

I'd rather have a competent and all around good guy who happened to be a mage in the government over a corrupt scumbag like the guy in Denerim who thought it was fun to rape city elves.

This is the kind of thing that makes me wonder why people think it's worth any price to avoid any risk of mages going Tevinter.  Yes, Tevinter sucks.  But so does the rest of Thedas.  Every country we've seen is full of those in power abusing those with no status in sickening ways.  It's going to be a real kick in DA3, presumably set in Orlais where it's a crime of "the highest order" to fight back when a chevalier tries to rape you or a loved one.

Nobody in Thedas really has the moral high ground on anybody.  Yeah Tevinter gets a bad rap and it is mostly deserved but is anyone else really better?

[DPSSOC]

Zanallen wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

So, could mages own land, inherit financial assets, etc, with the stipulation that they are not to actually participate in government? I don't see how a ban on political participation should limit them from making their own money legitimately.

They could own and inherit. They could even be born as heir to a government position; like Connor for instance. However, they could not become mayor or hold a government office through some means other than inheritance.

Only problem with this is that the positions a  mage could inherit are the ones that make them dangerous.  A mayor of a small village like Redcliffe doesn't hold a lot of power, worst case scenario he makes things suck for one village.  However a mage born into, and having access to, the high ranking nobility that have hereditary title can make things suck for an entire nation.  I say let the mages be mayors or other small time political stand ins, but keep them from anywhere the threat of them recreating Tevinter is very real.

[Zanallen]

DPSSOC wrote...

Only problem with this is that the positions a  mage could inherit are the ones that make them dangerous.  A mayor of a small village like Redcliffe doesn't hold a lot of power, worst case scenario he makes things suck for one village.  However a mage born into, and having access to, the high ranking nobility that have hereditary title can make things suck for an entire nation.  I say let the mages be mayors or other small time political stand ins, but keep them from anywhere the threat of them recreating Tevinter is very real.

But then you have issues like Connor, where because a mage cannot inherit a title, the parent's hid the child's ability and they don't get proper training.

[Zanallen]

jlb524 wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

My Warden and Hawke are blood mages and they will have power...suck on that.

My Warden and Hawke both kill blood mages while protecting the innocent, so suck on that.

Oh, how quaint. 

I've always liked playing the hero. It is a refreshing change from the bastard I am most of the time.

[Jarcander]

Rifneno wrote...

This is the kind of thing that makes me wonder why people think it's worth any price to avoid any risk of mages going Tevinter.  Yes, Tevinter sucks.  But so does the rest of Thedas.  Every country we've seen is full of those in power abusing those with no status in sickening ways.  It's going to be a real kick in DA3, presumably set in Orlais where it's a crime of "the highest order" to fight back when a chevalier tries to rape you or a loved one.

Don't you just hate it when there are no good choices available?

I blame The Witcher for making everyone think having all grey is better than a little bit of light, a tad of dark in addition to the beloved grey.

You should always feel as if you are making a difference. DA2 has this problem that you don't feel enough sense of accomplishment, except for material gains, such as the mansion, etc.

[nitefyre410]

Jarcander wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

This is the kind of thing that makes me wonder why people think it's worth any price to avoid any risk of mages going Tevinter.  Yes, Tevinter sucks.  But so does the rest of Thedas.  Every country we've seen is full of those in power abusing those with no status in sickening ways.  It's going to be a real kick in DA3, presumably set in Orlais where it's a crime of "the highest order" to fight back when a chevalier tries to rape you or a loved one.

Don't you just hate it when there are no good choices available?

I blame The Witcher for making everyone think having all grey is better than a little bit of light, a tad of dark in addition to the beloved grey.

You should always feel as if you are making a difference. DA2 has this problem that you don't feel enough sense of accomplishment, except for material gains, such as the mansion, etc.

Sometimes - yes, sometimes- no...   

[TobiTobsen]

Jarcander wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

This is the kind of thing that makes me wonder why people think it's worth any price to avoid any risk of mages going Tevinter.  Yes, Tevinter sucks.  But so does the rest of Thedas.  Every country we've seen is full of those in power abusing those with no status in sickening ways.  It's going to be a real kick in DA3, presumably set in Orlais where it's a crime of "the highest order" to fight back when a chevalier tries to rape you or a loved one.

Don't you just hate it when there are no good choices available?

I blame The Witcher for making everyone think having all grey is better than a little bit of light, a tad of dark in addition to the beloved grey.

You should always feel as if you are making a difference. DA2 has this problem that you don't feel enough sense of accomplishment, except for material gains, such as the mansion, etc.

Well thats actually the norm in Low Fantasy. Maybe you're more like Cailan who obviously thought he was in a High Fantasy story

[CrimsonZephyr]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

GavrielKay wrote...

I'd rather have a competent and all around good guy who happened to be a mage in the government over a corrupt scumbag like the guy in Denerim who thought it was fun to rape city elves.

This is the kind of thing that makes me wonder why people think it's worth any price to avoid any risk of mages going Tevinter.  Yes, Tevinter sucks.  But so does the rest of Thedas.  Every country we've seen is full of those in power abusing those with no status in sickening ways.  It's going to be a real kick in DA3, presumably set in Orlais where it's a crime of "the highest order" to fight back when a chevalier tries to rape you or a loved one.

Nobody in Thedas really has the moral high ground on anybody.  Yeah Tevinter gets a bad rap and it is mostly deserved but is anyone else really better?

Orlais, from the sounds of it, is like an Andrastian Tevinter. Just as wealthy and decadent, but they find other outlets for their cruelty than blood magic. I mean, if a chevalier rapes a woman and the woman fights back, the woman gets charged with a capital crime...

[Ryzaki]

Another reason I don't want a game set in Orlais.

The devs are gonna have to explain why my character keeps ending up near dead Chevaliers.