404 réponses à ce sujet

[tomorrowstation]

dragonfire100 wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

as long as I can kill Anders I'll side with whoever

Why would you want to kill anders? hes your best healer.

My best healer is Dr. H. Poultice and his 99 friends from the village of Merchantville, Thedas 90210.  They don't complain nearly as much as Anders. not a peep, even

[Rifneno]

It's supposed to be grey and grey.  Mages are a grey area.  Now, at the center of the galaxy there is a supermassive black hole.  Understand that scientists take words like "supermassive" very seriously; this black hole is estimated to have 1,381,700,000,000,000 times the mass of Earth.  I tell you this because I say that this supermassive black hole is not as black as the fascist templars.

DA2 was written trying to make you see the templar's point of view by bombarding you with abominations and blood mages, as the devs didn't care for how everyone automatically sided with the mages in DAO (it's kind of disturbing they thought we wouldn't have a problem with clicking the "Yes, I wanna butcher these terrified children" option to Wynne).  The problem is that if you have even the vaguest understanding of cause and effect, it does the exact opposite.  The templars aren't suppressing these problems with their evil, they're directly causing them.  They're locking the mages in a place that's going to drive them crazy and evil then enslaving, beating, raping, and murdering them.  I only realized how incredibly bad the devs' message failed when I later replayed DAO and found myself taking dialogue options I never did before with Morrigan.  Before it was "How could you be so calm about killing those templars, you monster?"  Now it's "Can I have your autograph?"

I'm still pissed you can choose to kill all the mages, but not kill all the templars.  Every last one of them that didn't mutiny when Meredith called the RoA deserves to die.  Every single one without exception.

[drunk_monk]

There should have been a side with the qunari choice.

[drunk_monk]

The mage and templar conflict is more like the Mutant and non Mutant conflict in X men then jedi sith conflict. Just saying

[Ryzaki]

drunk_monk wrote...

There should have been a side with the qunari choice.

Would've spiced things up. 

[Rifneno]

drunk_monk wrote...

There should have been a side with the qunari choice.

I'd rather side with the damn darkspawn.  At least the darkspawn lack free will because they're born without it rather than because they suppress it thinking it's something horrible.

Dangers to Thedas IMO:  Qunari > Darkspawn > Chantry > Tevinter.

Modifié par Rifneno, 03 août 2011 - 01:32 .

[Eternal Dust]

Sundance31us wrote...

happy_daiz wrote...

I'm still waiting for the part where my mind will be changed.

I side with templars whenever it's appropriate to my Hawke...which is most of the time.

Same here. There's nothing quite a satifying as playing a mage Hawke who sides with the Templars.

It's especially satisfying when you're a blood mage siding with the Templars against blood mages

[likeorasgod]

Ryzaki wrote...

Sundance31us wrote...

happy_daiz wrote...

I'm still waiting for the part where my mind will be changed.

I side with templars whenever it's appropriate to my Hawke...which is most of the time.

Same here. There's nothing quite a satifying as playing a mage Hawke who sides with the Templars.

Agreed. 

Now if there was a kill em all until the survivors start to see some damn sense option I'd pick that too. 

I finaly finished a play through and had sided with the mages.  I pretty much felt this was that pick cause you kill all the blood mages and than once you get that crazy Knight Commander.   While Cullen has his problems, ever he see's there is a need for balance.

[Icy Magebane]

Sorry, but you didn't change my mind about anything... I'll leave it at that since I really don't like talking about this anymore.

[Rifneno]

likeorasgod wrote...

I finaly finished a play through and had sided with the mages.  I pretty much felt this was that pick cause you kill all the blood mages and than once you get that crazy Knight Commander.   While Cullen has his problems, ever he see's there is a need for balance.

Cullen should be the first one on the guillotine.  Saying he's better than Meredith is like saying lava is cooler than the sun.  Sure, but... so what?

[Shadow Fox]

Wydi wrote...

Ollys wrote...

Right or bad, but check Star Wars example from op-post. Yesterday's jedi became a sith-emperor and now some force-user rule over all galaxy. It not about good and evil. Strong always rule over weak.
And heres no today civil rights - Thedas is harch and grim medieval world.

Star Wars is..Star Wars, after all.
Sith aren't invincible and so aren't Mages. 

But the more important thing is:
You will never be able to find and kill all mages. In "today's" Thedas, parents tend to send their magically talented children to the Circle by their own will, but when this means the certain death to their beloved children, who could blame them for hiding it?
Thus, the childs will never learn to control their powers and will more likely become tyrants, full of hatred for the church, the templars and any power behind them. 

From what I've read only Templars,Wardens and well other mages can fight mages as an equal same with the Force users in Star Wars.

Anyway I don' see how anyone can feel bad for picking one side over the other as both sides are in the right and wrong.

[Shadow Fox]

Karsciyin wrote...

I support the mages, but I don't support Janders. He's an anarchist really - he doesn't want to FIX the system, he wants to completely remove it, at the expense of those who cannot protect themselves from the consequences.

So I also agree that SOME element of templar is necessary, even though not to the degree it currently stands. (Maybe a reporting system, or mages can still live with/be visited by family, but must report regularly and if the miss a report and search goes out or something). So I support the templars too, but DEVINATELY do not support Meredith. Even in cases where Hawke was played as very pro-templar, the idea of Meredith gaining power over the viscount does not sound right no matter which side you like.

Both Leandra and that elf woman visit they're kids so the Templars don't completely isolate mages.

[Shadow Fox]

Rifneno wrote...

It's supposed to be grey and grey.  Mages are a grey area.  Now, at the center of the galaxy there is a supermassive black hole.  Understand that scientists take words like "supermassive" very seriously; this black hole is estimated to have 1,381,700,000,000,000 times the mass of Earth.  I tell you this because I say that this supermassive black hole is not as black as the fascist templars.

DA2 was written trying to make you see the templar's point of view by bombarding you with abominations and blood mages, as the devs didn't care for how everyone automatically sided with the mages in DAO (it's kind of disturbing they thought we wouldn't have a problem with clicking the "Yes, I wanna butcher these terrified children" option to Wynne).  The problem is that if you have even the vaguest understanding of cause and effect, it does the exact opposite.  The templars aren't suppressing these problems with their evil, they're directly causing them.  They're locking the mages in a place that's going to drive them crazy and evil then enslaving, beating, raping, and murdering them.  I only realized how incredibly bad the devs' message failed when I later replayed DAO and found myself taking dialogue options I never did before with Morrigan.  Before it was "How could you be so calm about killing those templars, you monster?"  Now it's "Can I have your autograph?"

I'm still pissed you can choose to kill all the mages, but not kill all the templars.  Every last one of them that didn't mutiny when Meredith called the RoA deserves to die.  Every single one without exception.

Not every Templar abuses mages you know. And it's the Mages who cause the templars to crack down harder in the 2nd act.

[Sepewrath]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

Abominations are far more dangerous than the gameplay suggests, according to the lore. One can kill dozens of people in one go - Meredith's sister killed 70 before she was put down. I strongly dislike the Chantry as an institution and their Circles and I don't think they should be the ones watching over mages, but some restrictions on the freedoms of the mage population is necessary out of safety concerns.

And Hitler led to the deaths of millions, should all Germans or people with mustaches be locked up? Doesn't work that way, the TC is sort of right, that kind of thought pattern is what incites ill will by mages. That is the reason why you see a bunch of apostates who never learn how to control their magic, because their hiding in fear of being sent to prison for the great crime of being born.  It doesn't take magic or demons to be dangerous, so if your locking up people that could potentially be dangerous, every person alive should be born in a cage. The Circle should exist to teach not imprison, if they weren't kidnapping people's children, there would be a lot less apostates.

[Rifneno]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

From what I've read only Templars,Wardens and well other mages can fight mages as an equal same with the Force users in Star Wars.

Anyway I don' see how anyone can feel bad for picking one side over the other as both sides are in the right and wrong.

Their abilities are irrelevant to abuses made against them just for being born. If someone was born with extreme strength--say they could lift a medium sized car with relative ease--do you think it'd be okay abuse them in every way possible? Of course not.

As for the second line, again I stress, only if you don't understand cause and effect. The templars are locking the mages in a place that makes them go insane from supernatural influence, then abusing them mentally, physically, and even sexually.

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Both Leandra and that elf woman visit they're kids so the Templars don't completely isolate mages.

It's become a really inconsistent issue in DA2. In DAO, it seemed to be a hard and fast rule. In DA2 it doesn't apply to a lot of people without any explanation while it still applies to some (for example, Ella, the young woman Alrik was about to turn into a mindless sex slave, was just trying to sneak out so she could say goodbye to her mother).

Perhaps they eased up on that part of the rules. If so, that's what they needed more of to make the mage/templar thing a grey area. Treat mages with caution, not like pre-Geneva POWs for an accident of birth. Make the templars reasonable, not flood us with abominations that are a direct result of the templars' jackassery.

[Sepewrath]

I think it would have always been on a case by case basis, I mean Hawke gained influence in Kirkwall after coming back from the Deep Roads and had helped Templar's, so it makes sense that their sister could see some special treatment.Others might not have been so lucky. I'm sure the more common people never see their families again.

[Shadow Fox]

I'd think that if an ELF in Kirkwall can see they're kid anyone can.

You're forgetting most people in Kirkwall see magic as a stain on they're lineage so I'd imagine that they wouldn't want to be seen with them. That isn't the fault of the Templars.

[Rifneno]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

I'd think that if an ELF in Kirkwall can see they're kid anyone can.

You're forgetting most people in Kirkwall see magic as a stain on they're lineage so I'd imagine that they wouldn't want to be seen with them. That isn't the fault of the Templars.

Considering that the templars are part of the Chantry and the Chantry are the ones painting mages that way... yes, it is.

And perhaps you're forgetting cases like Anders where the templars had to literally tear him away from his sobbing, screaming mother whom he never saw again.  Considering she was reacting like that to her son being stolen, there is no chance that she wouldn't have gone to see him if she could.  Or Bethany stating that if she grew up in the Circle, Hawke would just be a name in a file somewhere because she wouldn't even know her family.

[Phantom_Demon]

" 'Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him.' Thus spoke the prophet Andraste as she cast down the Tevinter Imperium, ruled by mages who had brought the world to the edge of ruin."

Thus, I am appalled to say that I support neither one. I wish that were true, but, of course, I /must/ support one or the other. Bioware, let me make this clear. I support no mage or templar. I support only myself and ONLY MYSELF. Either get that right, or stop making us pick a choice.

Back to the topic at hand.

Mages and Templars are both idiots. I see what both are, and what both have become from when they first were. Fools and idiots alike.

Never choose a side, only support your own actions, never the actions of others, for if you choose a side you support only those that begin something that cannot be finished, nor controlled.

To quote Varric: "I think I'm sick of Templars and Mages."

Modifié par Phantom_Demon, 03 août 2011 - 04:25 .

[Sepewrath]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

I'd think that if an ELF in Kirkwall can see they're kid anyone can.

You're forgetting most people in Kirkwall see magic as a stain on they're lineage so I'd imagine that they wouldn't want to be seen with them. That isn't the fault of the Templars.

Well with Feynriel it could have been a favor by Thrask for his mother and the fact that he surrendered himself to the Circle. Emile's parents, were nobles and they said they hadn't seen him since he was a child before he showed up and they certainly did seem the "stain on our family honor" type. So I doubt anyone can just get in to see their kids, like other have said Ella wouldn't have been trying to escape to see her mother if she could come visit her.

Modifié par Sepewrath, 03 août 2011 - 06:16 .

[Rifneno]

Sepewrath wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

I'd think that if an ELF in Kirkwall can see they're kid anyone can.

You're forgetting most people in Kirkwall see magic as a stain on they're lineage so I'd imagine that they wouldn't want to be seen with them. That isn't the fault of the Templars.

Well with Feynriel it could have been a favor by Thrask for his mother and the fact that he surrendered himself to the Circle. Emile's parents, were nobles and they said they hadn't seen him since he was a child before he showed up and they certainly did seem the "stain on our family honor" type. So I doubt anyone can just get in to see their kids, like other have said Ella wouldn't have been trying to escape to see her mother if she could come visit her.

Samson is even a good example.  He was thrown out of the order because he was delivering a a goodbye letter from a captured mage to his now-former sweetheart on the outside.  "Die hallucinating in drug withdrawal" is a hell of a punishment for delivering a letter for a prisoner that's allowed visitors.

[SirDoctorofTARDIS]

 Everytime I see this exact same thread I wish for a " I'll take you all on" option like  Optimus in Revenge of the Fallen.

[nitefyre410]

Sepewrath wrote...

I think it would have always been on a case by case basis, I mean Hawke gained influence in Kirkwall after coming back from the Deep Roads and had helped Templar's, so it makes sense that their sister could see some special treatment.Others might not have been so lucky. I'm sure the more common people never see their families again.

 

This or its puts a bigger target on her back to prove a point that not even  a Mage that comes from a family of recent influence is  above  or out of the Templars reach.

The mage and templar conflict is more like the Mutant and non Mutant conflict in X men then jedi sith conflict. Just saying

A much better example  for the Mage Templar conflict.. thank you because thats how I felt playing DA 2.   


The first problem with the  whole Templar/Circle System is that  it  no one person or set of person should have that much power over another set of people.   Another issue is that  the Mages are not even getting  a   proper training when it comes to defending themselves against demons.   Harrowing is  not a test but more of   a "Oh tie a stone to her and throw her in the river. If she sinks she was innocent, if she floats she is a witch and BURN HER."  

If you are driving  and you never been in a skid before  or taught how to get you car out of skid.. how are going to know to turn into the skid? 

I remember  Morrigan saying the  DA:O that  they are kept deaf dumb and blind. She was right.

So we have a bunch of  not so well trained, scared, stressed mages all in once place and some how  this is not a  Neon  sign telling demon in  Fade... " All you can eat Mage buffet here."

[Rifneno]

Awesomness wrote...

 Everytime I see this exact same thread I wish for a " I'll take you all on" option like  Optimus in Revenge of the Fallen.

I can see that point of view. It's not their fault and I sympathize with them, but the Kirkwall mages are a huge danger. If you take out the templars, you do have a bunch of crazed mages running amok. It's comparable to bombing the hell out of a town with some engineered armageddon virus spreading in it. It's horrible, but understandable. What I spit on is the notion of sparing the fiends that purposely infected that town for giggles.

[Augustei]

Kazzorswan wrote...
*Snip*

You failed the change my mind as you stated =P

 My hawke didn't spend ten years building a life to throw it all away in one night and be forced to go into hiding from the templars