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[CrimsonZephyr]

Harid wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

What should be researched is a way to destroy magic without tranquility. Don't know why no one is working on that.

Most likely because, as much as people dislike mages, they need them to fight off darkspawn and qunari.

But only a handful of mages were necessary for that. Not to mention darkspawn are fought off just fine without mages. (as the Warden can attest to.) You'd get less casualities but...

I think Human Experimentation is illegal.

People already see the Chantry as fanged monsters, experimenting, even on Aeonar imprisoned mages, would probably be seen as worse, even if it was for an ultimately noble® end.

Apparently, the Chantry banned anatomical research, considering it to be blood magic. Now, setting aside the mind-numbing stupidity of this for a moment, it's a ban that is pretty difficult to enforce, especially in wartime. A lot of early real-life anatomists were military surgeons. Not every army is going to have a mage who can seal gaping wounds with a wave of his hand. So, eventually, someone would be curious enough to say, "Screw the Chantry!" and cut open a corpse to see what's inside.

[TEWR]

Harid wrote...


There has to be some basal level of communication between old gods and awakened darkspawn for the Architect to be able to cause the 5th blight via corruption of Urthemiel.  The other options are too farfetched and would rely on Awakened Darkspawns orders being stronger than the Calling, and given how light we know the control awakened Darkspawn have over other darkspawn, we already know this not to be true.  Corypheus is just awakened from long slumber, so sure, no communication.  It doesn't mean that Magisters didn't know the location of Old Gods in the first place to corrupt Dumat, or whatever Old god they corrupted first.  My point being, it doesn't prove that magisters weren't the first Darkspawn.  You guys even consider Corypheus to be one.
And we don't know if the magisters didn't create the Genlocks.

No there doesn't. For one thing, the Calling would still have affected the Darkspawn in Amaranthine because there are two Old Gods that need to be found. Second, I remember either a book or a Facebook game that happened prior to the 5th Blight that ended with some people digging at the earth. I'm assuming that was the Architect using control over Darkspawn.

Third, just so I'm sure, does the Architect say he gave Urthemiel his Joining ritual? Because I believe it was said somewhere that the taint a Darkspawn gives off is what corrupts the Old Gods.

Fourth, there's nothing in-game to say that Corypheus and his drinking buddies were the first Darkspawn. We know they were the first Awakened Darkspawn, but that is not the same thing. Saying he was definitely the first Darkspawn is just assuming he was.

[EmperorSahlertz]

They don't consider anatomical research blood magic... They fear that such research would attract and become a blood mage hotbed. Furthermore, corpses laying around is almost an invitation for the walking dead to eat your brains...

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 04 août 2011 - 11:59 .

[BigEvil]

Harid wrote...
and given how light we know the control awakened Darkspawn have over other darkspawn, we already know this not to be true.

How do we know this? Prove it.

Harid wrote...
Corypheus is just awakened from long slumber, so sure, no communication.  It doesn't mean that Magisters didn't know the location of Old Gods in the first place to corrupt Dumat, or whatever Old god they corrupted first.  My point being, it doesn't prove that magisters weren't the first Darkspawn.

It doesn't prove they did know the locations of the Old Gods either. It also doesn't prove that the magisters were the first Darkspawn.

Harid wrote...
You guys even consider Corypheus to be one, and he predates the first Blight, and mages given Avernus can live far longer than normal human lifespan.

And that still doesn't prove they were the first Darkspawn, at most it proves they were the first awakened Darkspawn.

Harid wrote...
And we don't know if the magisters didn't create the Genlocks.

We don't know if they created any Darkspawn. Which is what I'm saying. IF they didn't create the Genlocks it stands to reason they didn't create the other Darkspawn.

[Ryzaki]

Harid wrote...
I think Human Experimentation is illegal.

People already see the Chantry as fanged monsters, experimenting, even on Aeonar imprisoned mages, would probably be seen as worse, even if it was for an ultimately noble® end.

Blargh. 

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
1) You see dozens of mages marching to help out. So 12 mages weren't all that actually fought.
2) If killing Darkspawn was as easy as you claim, then it would be a breeze. The Dwarves wouldn't have lost their thaigs when they fought an army with an army. Fighting Darkspawn isn't easy. The Warden is protected by both plot armor and the fact that being a Warden helps make killing Darkspawn easier.

 

1. Probably because it was a placeholder for dozens of templars. Even at Ostagar you don't see all that many mages. Despite it being the bulk of the king's army. 
2. Never said it was easy. Just that it wasn't impossible without mages. (Thus my whole more casulties remark). 

[Ianamus]

Ryzaki wrote...

What should be researched is a way to destroy magic without tranquility. Don't know why no one is working on that.

Constant Lyrium exposure did it for the dwarves. Merrill also says that magic is becomming increasingly rare in the dalish, for some reason.

[JasmoVT]

I am still hoping DA3 be about your working your way up through the Chantry hierarchy by first eradicating apostates, then the various cirlces of Theadas and finally leading an Exalted March in alliance with the Qunari to cast down Tevnintner and erradicate all magic for ever.

[TEWR]

The Architect and the Mother both exert control over armies of Darkspawn, as they were waging a civil war against each other.



Ryzaki, the reason you only see a few mages at Ostagar is because the Chantry in all of its wisdom said that only 7 mages (8 if you're a mage) could go to Ostagar. Don't you remember the chantry **** that told Uldred to shut up because he was a mage?

There's a frickin' Blight going on and they don't send all of their mages and Templars? Bunch of incompetent idiots....

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 05 août 2011 - 12:09 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Harid wrote...


There has to be some basal level of communication between old gods and awakened darkspawn for the Architect to be able to cause the 5th blight via corruption of Urthemiel.  The other options are too farfetched and would rely on Awakened Darkspawns orders being stronger than the Calling, and given how light we know the control awakened Darkspawn have over other darkspawn, we already know this not to be true.  Corypheus is just awakened from long slumber, so sure, no communication.  It doesn't mean that Magisters didn't know the location of Old Gods in the first place to corrupt Dumat, or whatever Old god they corrupted first.  My point being, it doesn't prove that magisters weren't the first Darkspawn.  You guys even consider Corypheus to be one.
And we don't know if the magisters didn't create the Genlocks.

No there doesn't. For one thing, the Calling would still have affected the Darkspawn in Amaranthine because there are two Old Gods that need to be found. Second, I remember either a book or a Facebook game that happened prior to the 5th Blight that ended with some people digging at the earth. I'm assuming that was the Architect using control over Darkspawn.

Third, just so I'm sure, does the Architect say he gave Urthemiel his Joining ritual? Because I believe it was said somewhere that the taint a Darkspawn gives off is what corrupts the Old Gods.

Fourth, there's nothing in-game to say that Corypheus and his drinking buddies were the first Darkspawn. We know they were the first Awakened Darkspawn, but that is not the same thing. Saying he was definitely the first Darkspawn is just assuming he was.

The Architect says that he tried his joinning ritual on the Old God.

While there is no way to tell that the magisters were the first Darkspawn, it is noteworthy that there is ZERO records of Darspawn previous to them entering the Black City. Since the Darkspawn only ever appeared after this, it is safe (at least safer) to say that the Magisters were the first, or at least amongst the first Darkspawn, than to say that Darkspawn always existed.

[Ryzaki]

EJ107 wrote...

Constant Lyrium exposure did it for the dwarves. Merrill also says that magic is becomming increasingly rare in the dalish, for some reason.

Hm...odd. Maybe in the Dalish the bloodlines that give magic are dying out? 

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The Architect and the Mother both exert control over armies of Darkspawn, as they were waging a civil war against each other.



Ryzaki, the reason you only see a few mages is because the Chantry in all of its wisdom said that only 7 mages (8 if you're a mage) could go to Ostagar. Don't you remember the chantry **** that told Uldred to shut up because he was a mage?

There's a frickin' Blight going on and they don't send all of their mages and Templars? Bunch of incompetent idiots....

Myes... An abomination outbreak in the middle of the kings army would have improved the situation vastly.......

Edit: And the real reason is because they don't even believe it is a Blight and that the war has been going extraordinarily well, and thus there won't be a need for more mages.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 05 août 2011 - 12:09 .

[Zanallen]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The Architect and the Mother both exert control over armies of Darkspawn, as they were waging a civil war against each other.

Ryzaki, the reason you only see a few mages is because the Chantry in all of its wisdom said that only 7 mages (8 if you're a mage) could go to Ostagar. Don't you remember the chantry **** that told Uldred to shut up because he was a mage?

There's a frickin' Blight going on and they don't send all of their mages and Templars? Bunch of incompetent idiots....

To be fair, they still weren't sure it actually was a Blight.

[TEWR]

I wouldn't take any chances. The Wardens are the ones who have saved humanity from the Blights 4 times and people want to act all complacent because it's been 4 centuries? Dumbasses imo.


@emp: You've got all of your Templars and an army. Sending all of the Harrowed mages (forgot about there being unharrowed ones) wouldn't really result abominations. If it did, they would be very few.

I'm not just talking about Templars in the Circle Tower either. I'm also counting the ones all over the country. Redcliffe, Denerim, Amaranthine. There's only one Circle in Ferelden.

Also, despite me making gameplay lore, I have yet to see an Abomination do what they're reputed to do. They just act like drunken idiots when we fight them. But like I said, that's just making gameplay lore.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 05 août 2011 - 12:15 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

They still didn't believe it was a Blight, but just an unusually large Darkspawn raid. They simply didn't see the need for more mages, or Templars for that matter, to be present. Nor would more mages and Templars even guarentee succes, it could just aswell spell doom for all of Ferelden.

[TEWR]

There's no way to know that. If the entire horde went to Denerim and the Blight was ended there, it's possible it could've been ended at Ostagar. Scratch that, I forgot about elves and dwarves.


I'm wondering why they didn't burn the ****ing forest. Flemeth's hut be damned. I'm surprised the Darkspawn were all cordial and said "Alright, we'll strike at 10 p.m."


actually, what happens if the Archdemon dies and there are no Wardens, OGBs-to-be, or Darkspawn in the area?

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 05 août 2011 - 12:19 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

IIRC it was rainning when the fighting took place, add to that the already moist surroundings and it would be considerably hard to lit an entire forest on fire. And the fact that the Darkspawn attacked at night shows that they weren't at all cordial, and tha the King's army scouts did their job well.

If the Archdemon dies without any nearby tainted creature, I'd reckon it "flies" to the nearest. It is in a spiritual form (or something to that effect) I doubt distance is an issue, other than it will always take the nearest.

[TEWR]

well, it was raining when the battle began, but before then it hadn't been.

Though you may have a point if the surroundings were incredibly moist.


I'm just saying I find it odd that the Darkspawn waited at all. I guess I shouldn't be surprised though. It might just be Archie's influence that made them wait, since we know Archie makes them employ tactics in a Blight.

[EmperorSahlertz]

They were probably just gathering their forces. They had just lost two previous battles (which was either a lure to make the King's army complacent, or it weren't), and would probably have to replace losses, and gather even more troops. Remember they aren't the brainless Darkspawn which raid the surface outside of Blights. During this battle they had the unifying presence of an Archdemon, which would give them a, rudimentary at least, grasp of battle tactics.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 05 août 2011 - 12:36 .

[KotorEffect3]

I have never sided with the Templars, not even out of curiosity (youtube can satisfy my curiosity). I would love nothing more than in future DA content the opportunity to destroy the Templar Order.

[lobi]

While we are at it perhaps Macbeth can take place in Denmark and 2001 can be about 'the spice'.

[Ryzaki]

If we can destroy the chantry I want to be able to wipe out all but a handful of Andrastian mages. And just leave the loyalists alive.  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 août 2011 - 12:59 .

[KotorEffect3]

Ryzaki wrote...

If we can destroy the chantry I want to be able to wipe out all but a handful of Andrastian mages. And just leave the loyalists alive.  

I don't necessarily want to destroy the chantry, just the templar order.  I would prefer a reformed chantry.

[Rifneno]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

The benefits of keeping the mages in check outweigh the faults.

I never understood how difficult a concept cause and effect was until I came here.

Zanallen wrote...

The system could definitely use a reformation. I doubt think anyone would argue against that. However, mages need to be policed in some fashion.They are basically a super-powered minority who can easily hide within the majority and are subjected to temptation and possession by demons even without provocation.

Edit: It is also silly to condem the entire templar order based on the action of Meredith. This is especially true when you consider the extenuating circumstances, not the least of which being that the entire city of Kirkwall is a pot set to boil due to the thin veil.

The notion that pro-mage posters don't think mages need to be policed is entirely a fiction created by pro-templar ones.

I don't recall Meredith carrying out the RoA by herself. Or the rapings, beatings, and tranquilizations for little to no reason that many a templar was indulging in.

They serve a valid, needed fuction? Recall that the entirety of the church of Andraste was built from rebellion against a despotic mage run empire. Recall that the common belief is that mages caused their god to abandon them and that mages are responsible for the creation of the darkspawn, a violent scourge bent on total destruction of the world. Not to mention that zealots make some of the best soldiers.

All I gathered from that is that the Chantry's religion is two parts evil and three parts retarded.

3) And there is also no real evidence of the contrary. Convenient that. No one knows what really happened so no one can dispute it.

Lolacaust. The burden of proof isn't on 1500% on the scumbag organization using it to violently oppress people?

Of course I still can't get over blaming mages as a whole for the darkspawn. Do you guys spit on medical researchers for creating things like heroin and cocaine?

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

That severely limits how effective mages are in Blights and against other threats. If they don't know how to use the more powerful spells, then they aren't very useful. Especially since Wynne was able to set a boy's hair on fire without meaning to.

True story. Don't forget Connor. He caused more damage than any mage encountered in DAO, and he was just a dumb kid without proper training. ... Because the Chantry put such over-the-top limitations on what mages are allowed. Lady Isolde was an **** for certain, but she did what she did out of motherly love and wanting the best for her son. Which parents tend to do.

Zanallen wrote...

The veil is thin enough that below the city even normal people can be contacted by demons. It also causes more mages to fail the Harrowing and more mages to turn to blood magic. Seems like it would cause a fairly hostile work environment for someone tasked with guarding mages, even without the possiblity of demonic corruption.

It's a hell of a lot more hostile for the mages. And the mages aren't locking the templars there.

And once again, the system could use reformation. The entirety of the order should not be vilified because you think mages deserve better treatment.

But it's okay to vilify the entirety of mages (who are born into the role rather than having chosen it like a templar) because of Tevinter?

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Actually the Chantry frowns on magical research regarding the body because they see it as blood magic. Or because it requires blood magic. Or both.

Basically it's the Chantry's damn fault.

When is hilarious when you consider that Andraste was very likely the OGB of the one who introduced blood magic to Tevinter.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

They don't consider anatomical research blood magic... They fear that such research would attract and become a blood mage hotbed. Furthermore, corpses laying around is almost an invitation for the walking dead to eat your brains...

Zombies would starve in Kirkwall.