223 réponses à ce sujet

[erynnar]

Daveros wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Not sure I follow on this. Why would anyone who didn't like DAO buy DA2 in the first place.

I think that's the point being raised. It's often suggested that the sales figures for DA2 indicate what people think of the quality of the game; but, what I wonder is how much of the sales are affected by what people thought of the quality of Origins?

Again, not following. I apologize. I am tired, and you are the father of the Dalek...so, there ya go.

DA2 sold well it's first two weeks, because of pre-orders from those who love DAO, not hate it, or think the quality is poor on it. Then the sales for DA2 dropped.  So, spell it out for me, because what your saying makes no sense to me.

Again, why would people spend more to show they dislike DAO? DAO is a top seller, and I have heard (allegedly) that it continues to out sell DA2 in online stores like Amazon.

Modifié par erynnar, 03 août 2011 - 04:36 .

[Realmzmaster]

I think what Daveros is trying to say is how many sales did DA2 lose because some gamers looked at DAO did not like what they saw. Therefore they passed up DA2 which they may have liked because of the change in direction from DAO.

[Daveros]

erynnar wrote...

Again, not following. I apologize. I am tired, and you are the father of the Dalek...so, there ya go.

DA2 sold well it's first two weeks, because of pre-orders from those who love DAO, not hate it, or think the quality is poor on it. Then the sales for DA2 dropped.  So, spell it out for me, because what your saying makes no sense to me.

Again, why would people spend more to show they dislike DAO? DAO is a top seller, and I have heard (allegedly) that it continues to out sell DA2 in online stores like Amazon.

Heh, Doctor Who, my other passion. I apologise for not being as clear and to the point as I could have been.

Realmzmaster has spelt it out for me, how many sales did we lose because people did not like Origins? It's a possibile cause (no, I'm not saying the main one) as to why DA2 did not sell well.

The fact that Origins is still selling well doesn't mean that people whom have bought it love it. The fact that swarms of those buyers whom are keeping it in the charts aren't even interested in picking up DA2 shows that, perhaps, some are put off by Origins itself.

Also, Dragon Age: Origins had quite a few pre-orders itself, from nothing to base the game on except it was Bioware and that godawful television advertising campaign, so I don't know how much stock we can put into the pre-orders being Origins lovers only.

But all this, is only a passing thought. I honestly think Dragon Age 2's main issue with sales is the poor reception it recived. You like something? You tell one person. You hate it? You tell ten. That sort of thing.

Modifié par Daveros, 03 août 2011 - 04:59 .

[erynnar]

Daveros wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Again, not following. I apologize. I am tired, and you are the father of the Dalek...so, there ya go.

DA2 sold well it's first two weeks, because of pre-orders from those who love DAO, not hate it, or think the quality is poor on it. Then the sales for DA2 dropped.  So, spell it out for me, because what your saying makes no sense to me.

Again, why would people spend more to show they dislike DAO? DAO is a top seller, and I have heard (allegedly) that it continues to out sell DA2 in online stores like Amazon.

Heh, Doctor Who, my other passion. I apologise for not being as clear and to the point as I could have been.

Realmzmaster has spelt it out for me, how many sales did we lose because people did not like Origins? It's a possibile cause (no, I'm not saying the main one) as to why DA2 did not sell well.

The fact that Origins is still selling well doesn't mean that people whom have bought it love it. The fact that swarms of those buyers whom are keeping it in the charts aren't even interested in picking up DA2 shows that, perhaps, some are put off by Origins itself.

Also, Dragon Age: Origins had quite a few pre-orders itself, from nothing to base the game on except it was Bioware and that godawful television advertising campaign, so I don't know how much stock we can put into the pre-orders being Origins lovers only.

But all this, is only a passing thought. I honestly think Dragon Age 2's main issue with sales is the poor reception it recived. You like something? You tell one person. You hate it? You tell ten. That sort of thing.

@Realz ah, thanks! *HUGS*

And Daveros, since I knew that name, and it's story, you can tell Dr. Who is a passion of mine (Tom Baker  is my top Dr.)

Thanks for you and Realz for clearing that up. Sorry I am so dim witted this time of night (for me:P). I don't see DA2 suffering from DAO. Not when it was so successful. I could see that if say DAO hadn't had the awards, the huge sales it had itself and continues to have. 

If say, DAO hadn't won the awards, been reviewed the way it was, and was given a 'meh' kind of response, I could see how it would affect DA2's numbers. DA2 is and was sold as the sequel. 

I suspect that the lackluster sales for DA2 are due to word of mouth (tell ten, that made me giggle, I tell a lot of people when I like something too) and that it got out that it did a 180 from its successful predecessor. It gutted what made what came before it successful.

As for me, I told my friend with an Xbox to rent or borrow ( I would loan but I don't have an Xbox, PC snob here:lol:) both and see what he thought. I don't make decisions for others. And now I can tell him to try Legacy if he does wind up with DA2.

[Morroian]

erynnar wrote...
Thanks for you and Realz for clearing that up. Sorry I am so dim witted this time of night (for me:P). I don't see DA2 suffering from DAO. Not when it was so successful. I could see that if say DAO hadn't had the awards, the huge sales it had itself and continues to have. 

You've all cleared up what I originally meant. I just pose the question because with DAO I know there was a fair amount of bad feedback from console players in particular because the port was quite considered poor, which was 1 reason why they chose to develop DA2 simultaneously across all 3 platforms.

[Daveros]

erynnar wrote...

And Daveros, since I knew that name, and it's story, you can tell Dr. Who is a passion of mine (Tom Baker  is my top Dr.)

Thanks for you and Realz for clearing that up. Sorry I am so dim witted this time of night (for me:P). I don't see DA2 suffering from DAO. Not when it was so successful. I could see that if say DAO hadn't had the awards, the huge sales it had itself and continues to have. 

If say, DAO hadn't won the awards, been reviewed the way it was, and was given a 'meh' kind of response, I could see how it would affect DA2's numbers. DA2 is and was sold as the sequel. 

I suspect that the lackluster sales for DA2 are due to word of mouth (tell ten, that made me giggle, I tell a lot of people when I like something too) and that it got out that it did a 180 from its successful predecessor. It gutted what made what came before it successful.

As for me, I told my friend with an Xbox to rent or borrow ( I would loan but I don't have an Xbox, PC snob here:lol:) both and see what he thought. I don't make decisions for others. And now I can tell him to try Legacy if he does wind up with DA2.

Daveros = My name (David/Dave) + Davros. I can never choose a favourite Doctor (although I am leaning towards Pertwee at the moment), I love them all.

I tend to disagree with you even more when you bring the success and the awards Origins recieved into it. Many people love Origins and they are going to suggest to their friends that they buy it. These friends will then buy it and may well dislike what they see, they will not buy Dragon Age 2.

To lay all the blame directly at the feet of Dragon Age 2 may well be incorrect, I believe. But, of course, I can never say for certain.

From my personal experience I found that I did not like what I saw with Origins, but pre-ordered Dragon Age 2 because I love Bioware and was still on my Mass Effect 2 high (I still am). I was blown away with how good Dragon Age 2 was and I think it is, in many, many ways, superior to Origins. This is why I hold the belief that Origins may well have been detrimental to its sales.

Modifié par Daveros, 03 août 2011 - 05:22 .

[erynnar]

Daveros wrote...

erynnar wrote...

And Daveros, since I knew that name, and it's story, you can tell Dr. Who is a passion of mine (Tom Baker  is my top Dr.)

Thanks for you and Realz for clearing that up. Sorry I am so dim witted this time of night (for me:P). I don't see DA2 suffering from DAO. Not when it was so successful. I could see that if say DAO hadn't had the awards, the huge sales it had itself and continues to have. 

If say, DAO hadn't won the awards, been reviewed the way it was, and was given a 'meh' kind of response, I could see how it would affect DA2's numbers. DA2 is and was sold as the sequel. 

I suspect that the lackluster sales for DA2 are due to word of mouth (tell ten, that made me giggle, I tell a lot of people when I like something too) and that it got out that it did a 180 from its successful predecessor. It gutted what made what came before it successful.

As for me, I told my friend with an Xbox to rent or borrow ( I would loan but I don't have an Xbox, PC snob here:lol:) both and see what he thought. I don't make decisions for others. And now I can tell him to try Legacy if he does wind up with DA2.

Daveros = My name (David/Dave) + Davros. I can never choose a favourite Doctor (although I am leaning towards Pertwee at the moment), I love them all.

I tend to disagree with you even more when you bring the success and the awards Origins recieved into it. Many people love Origins and they are going to suggest to their friends that they buy it. These friends will then buy it and may well dislike what they see, they will not buy Dragon Age 2.

To lay all the blame directly at the feet of Dragon Age 2 may well be incorrect, I believe. But, of course, I can never say for certain.

From my personal experience I found that I did not like what I saw with Origins, but pre-ordered Dragon Age 2 because I love Bioware and was still on my Mass Effect 2 high (I still am). I was blown away with how good Dragon Age 2 was and I think it is, in many, many ways, superior to Origins. This is why I hold the belief that Origins may well have been detrimental to its sales.

Thanks for adding me as a friend!

And have to disagree with you. I think DA2 failed on its own merits and I don't think DAO had much to do with it. Not after time had passed and people who might have shied away due to DAO, and not liking it, heard how different it was from DAO. 

If the sales were due to a lack of DAO affection, then after word got out from those that did love the 180 gutting of DAO would have had their say and those on the fence who didn't like DAO would have increased the sales I would think. You'd have the opposite effect. A boost from pre-orders and the fan base that loved DAO, like me.  Then a drop off, due to bad word of mouth, then a rise due to those who loved DA2 and hated DAO giving reviews to that effect (here and elsewhere, I have seen plenty of those reviews while wandering in the internets gamer forums).

In othrwords, I think the sales would go up and not continue downwards like they did.  And Legacy addressed so many problems DA2 had, that made it more like what DA2 should have been, that I really can't see DA2 flailing because of DAO.

I think they took a chance and did the 180 to make DA2 appeal to a wider audience to get a lot more happy shiny people who don't usually play RPG. They took a gamble. Not sure how it worked out. They pissed off the core base of fans who loved the predecessor and hope for an improvement on, and a keeping what made the other successful; while BioWare tried to make DA2 be a "Jack of all trades and master of none."

[erynnar]

Morroian wrote...

erynnar wrote...
Thanks for you and Realz for clearing that up. Sorry I am so dim witted this time of night (for me:P). I don't see DA2 suffering from DAO. Not when it was so successful. I could see that if say DAO hadn't had the awards, the huge sales it had itself and continues to have. 

You've all cleared up what I originally meant. I just pose the question because with DAO I know there was a fair amount of bad feedback from console players in particular because the port was quite considered poor, which was 1 reason why they chose to develop DA2 simultaneously across all 3 platforms.

And yet, many console players, including friends of mine think developing DA2 for consoles first and not PC first made a shoddier product. They loved DAO and don't like DA2 as much.  Not sure if that argument holds a lot of water.

[Daveros]

erynnar wrote...

Thanks for adding me as a friend!

And have to disagree with you. I think DA2 failed on its own merits and I don't think DAO had much to do with it. Not after time had passed and people who might have shied away due to DAO, and not liking it, heard how different it was from DAO. 

If the sales were due to a lack of DAO affection, then after word got out from those that did love the 180 gutting of DAO would have had their say and those on the fence who didn't like DAO would have increased the sales I would think. You'd have the opposite effect. A boost from pre-orders and the fan base that loved DAO, like me.  Then a drop off, due to bad word of mouth, then a rise due to those who loved DA2 and hated DAO giving reviews to that effect (here and elsewhere, I have seen plenty of those reviews while wandering in the internets gamer forums).

In othrwords, I think the sales would go up and not continue downwards like they did.  And Legacy addressed so many problems DA2 had, that made it more like what DA2 should have been, that I really can't see DA2 flailing because of DAO.

I think they took a chance and did the 180 to make DA2 appeal to a wider audience to get a lot more happy shiny people who don't usually play RPG. They took a gamble. Not sure how it worked out. They pissed off the core base of fans who loved the predecessor and hope for an improvement on, and a keeping what made the other successful; while BioWare tried to make DA2 be a "Jack of all trades and master of none."

The sales figures of Dragon Age 2 scream "apathy" at me, which, I believe, can first be attributed to the feedback it's recieved. Of course, in my opinion, secondly it's to do with how Origins was recieved. How you describe " a drop off, due to bad word of mouth, then a rise", I believe this would have happened more easily if more people were fans of Origins. People whom bought and liked the original might have seen DA2 in a sale and thought: "It can't be as bad as all that, surely?" and it would have gone from there. As it is, it didn't happen, there's a certain lack of interest found towards the game, which I think has to do with Origins as well as the feedback DA2 recieved (which I don't believe is entirely warranted, but that's another discussion ).

Modifié par Daveros, 03 août 2011 - 06:35 .

[Morroian]

erynnar wrote...

And yet, many console players, including friends of mine think developing DA2 for consoles first and not PC first made a shoddier product. 

IMHO thats due more to the short development time frame and the large amount of work they set for themselves than the fact that it was developed across all 3 platforms at the same time.

[ScotGaymer]

Personally I reckon that given DAO was Bioware's best selling game ever that Bioware already hit that good balance between various kinds of RPGs and whatnot making some of the changes in DA2 unnecessary.

Hopefully we will get an Expansion to fill in the gaps of the main game.

[TEWR]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

In Exile wrote...

DA2 on the other hand .... can Bioware honestly say Kirkwall had any redeeming qualities offering you a reason to stay there?

That's true of every single Bioware game. You either buy into it or you don't.

Isn't that the case with every game in existence?

If we're talking strictly RPGs, then it probably is the case with every game. But if we're talking beyond that to other game genres, then not quite.

Kingdom Hearts gave you a really good reason to buy into the plotline. You spend a few days with your friends, then when the Heartless come and destroy your world your friends vanish. Your primary objective is to find your friends. Your secondary objective is sealing the keyholes to the worlds, lest they end up like your world.

The God of War series gave Kratos a really good reason for despising the gods. He basically got ****ed over by them at every turn.

It just deals with how well the developers of the games manage to make the story emotionally connecting. If you care, you buy into it. If you don't care, you don't, and that's the fault of the developers of the games.

[erynnar]

Morroian wrote...

erynnar wrote...

And yet, many console players, including friends of mine think developing DA2 for consoles first and not PC first made a shoddier product. 

IMHO thats due more to the short development time frame and the large amount of work they set for themselves than the fact that it was developed across all 3 platforms at the same time.

And that could very well be true.

[In Exile]

erynnar wrote...
Then you either buy into it, or don't play it more than once, if you get through it at all. Sales seem to indicate more bought into DAO's story and being a Grey Warden than bought into being a Ferelden refugee who becomes Champion of Kirkwall.

Sure. But what does that have to do with my point? "More people liked the forced plot" doesn't = "one game didn't have a forced plot."

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Isn't that the case with every game in existence?

No. Other games can be carried on gameplay alone and the "skip" button. RPGs, though, need you to get drawn in for the personal quest of the PC.

Though, for me, it's accentuated by the fact that Bioware does not have set characters.A set character can have a purpose I completely disagree with or find stupid, and I'd still be interested if he / she is interesting and projected in an interesting story / setting. Batman would be the biggest example for me. 

I get that. I'm the same.

But when I have to play characters that lean towards 1rst person, or stand in the awkward middle between 1rst and 3rd, I struggle to care if I am badly being forced into doing something I find has no point or logic to it, while also being forced to give a reason for my PC to care that is ultimately immaterial and inconsequential in the game itself. Unless I happen to buy into it and the game mantained my interest.

But that's every Bioware game. DA:O either aligns with you or not, in the same way that DA2 aligns with you or no. 

erynnar wrote...
Not sure I follow on this. Why would anyone who didn't like DAO buy DA2 in the first place. I have seen a lot of people claiming such, "I couldn't get through Ostagar," really perplex me as the demo gave you sod all about the game itself except for combat. It didn't give you story or companions or anything but figthing. 

What Moirran is saying is exactly that. That some people just didn't like DA:O and wouldn't buy DA2 based on that, and the sales of DA:O don't reflect how much people liked DA:O, just how well it was hyped up + other factors (like word of mouth, online ratings). 

Modifié par In Exile, 03 août 2011 - 02:07 .

[Dragoonlordz]

In Exile wrote...
The sales of DA:O don't reflect how much people liked DA:O, just how well it was hyped up + other factors (like word of mouth, online ratings). 

What are you talking about.. Sales of DA:O is because people liked the game so you should really stop the trying to confuse people and mislead. You even admit it yourself "hyped up + other factors like word of mouth, online ratings", people buy the game which they like then they use methods you just gave to promote it and then more people buy it on those reviews.

Those new people who buy it like it and promote it to their friends and more people buy it, in other words people liking something is the reason why something sells well. Why do you think DA2 hasn't sold so well overall so far? Its because a lot of people did not like it so word got around as to why and had an effect on sales the same applies for when people promote it in positive light you get higher sales. Simple common sense applies they are directly linked, high sales does mean people bought because other people liked it then those also liked it and told their friends and so on.

I don't really care much about everything else you said however that last statement you made is wrong.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 03 août 2011 - 02:51 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

In Exile wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Isn't that the case with every game in existence?

No. Other games can be carried on gameplay alone and the "skip" button. RPGs, though, need you to get drawn in for the personal quest of the PC.

Well yea of course, was tongue in cheek

But when I have to play characters that lean towards 1rst person, or stand in the awkward middle between 1rst and 3rd, I struggle to care if I am badly being forced into doing something I find has no point or logic to it, while also being forced to give a reason for my PC to care that is ultimately immaterial and inconsequential in the game itself. Unless I happen to buy into it and the game mantained my interest.

But that's every Bioware game. DA:O either aligns with you or not, in the same way that DA2 aligns with you or no. 

Absolutely.

[erynnar]

Daveros wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Thanks for adding me as a friend!

And have to disagree with you. I think DA2 failed on its own merits and I don't think DAO had much to do with it. Not after time had passed and people who might have shied away due to DAO, and not liking it, heard how different it was from DAO. 

If the sales were due to a lack of DAO affection, then after word got out from those that did love the 180 gutting of DAO would have had their say and those on the fence who didn't like DAO would have increased the sales I would think. You'd have the opposite effect. A boost from pre-orders and the fan base that loved DAO, like me.  Then a drop off, due to bad word of mouth, then a rise due to those who loved DA2 and hated DAO giving reviews to that effect (here and elsewhere, I have seen plenty of those reviews while wandering in the internets gamer forums).

In othrwords, I think the sales would go up and not continue downwards like they did.  And Legacy addressed so many problems DA2 had, that made it more like what DA2 should have been, that I really can't see DA2 flailing because of DAO.

I think they took a chance and did the 180 to make DA2 appeal to a wider audience to get a lot more happy shiny people who don't usually play RPG. They took a gamble. Not sure how it worked out. They pissed off the core base of fans who loved the predecessor and hope for an improvement on, and a keeping what made the other successful; while BioWare tried to make DA2 be a "Jack of all trades and master of none."

The sales figures of Dragon Age 2 scream "apathy" at me, which, I believe, can first be attributed to the feedback it's recieved. Of course, in my opinion, secondly it's to do with how Origins was recieved. How you describe " a drop off, due to bad word of mouth, then a rise", I believe this would have happened more easily if more people were fans of Origins. People whom bought and liked the original might have seen DA2 in a sale and thought: "It can't be as bad as all that, surely?" and it would have gone from there. As it is, it didn't happen, there's a certain lack of interest found towards the game, which I think has to do with Origins as well as the feedback DA2 recieved (which I don't believe is entirely warranted, but that's another discussion ).

Again, I could see that if DAO hadn't sold as well, further along in the selling cycle. There was the usual spike from preorders, then it dropped off, then spiked upwards again and continued to rise (if I'm remembering the sales charts correctly, where is xkg when I need him?).  DA2's sales reflect just what it was, a game not nearly as good as it's predecessor, along with a word of mouth that on some levels was unfair, and on others not so much.

[T764]

@ Dragoonlordz.

I doubt that i'm the only one but i ended up buying three copies of Origins on two different systems and a percentage of copies sold were to people who didn't like it and wouldn't buy a sequel.

Has Origins sold better? Absolutely.
Does 4+ million sales = 4+ million fans? Very unlikely.

In Exile's statement is not entirely wrong.

[Dragoonlordz]

T764 wrote...

@ Dragoonlordz.

I doubt that i'm the only one but i ended up buying three copies of Origins on two different systems and a percentage of copies sold were to people who didn't like it and wouldn't buy a sequel.

Has Origins sold better? Absolutely.
Does 4+ million sales = 4+ million fans? Very unlikely.

In Exile's statement is not entirely wrong.

If two games are sold, one has many people negative about it and one positive about other the positive one will sell vastly more. People are not positive about things they don't like, if something has high sales it's because more people enjoyed it than it's less successful competitior. Like = more sales, dislike = less; just because 'some' people don't like it doesn't change that fact. In the end thats the exception that proves the rule.

His comments is like a fox circling a fence around chicken coop, he keeps going around until see's a tiny gap in fence and tries to force way in exploiting that gap or '****** in the armour figurativley speaking' but given (see above paragraph) being a true fact so that gap wasn't a gap after all, the fox is now trying to dig his way under the fence.

There are two main ways people on BSN argue about things they do the going around in circles looking for the ****** in armour or the other method of moving goal posts.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 03 août 2011 - 03:34 .

[Mr.House]

Not everyone who bought DAO enjoyed it, thus never bought DA2. That's another factor, plus DA2 was more profitable, people can deny it but it's the truth, and sadly that might mean EA might pull the same thing again, so enjoy Legacy while it last!

[Dragoonlordz]

Mr.House wrote...

Not everyone who bought DAO enjoyed it, thus never bought DA2. That's another factor, plus DA2 was more profitable, people can deny it but it's the truth, and sadly that might mean EA might pull the same thing again, so enjoy Legacy while it last!

It might be more profitable however more time does not mean spent more in developement in which case it may not have been more profitable just because took less time. As it stands right now you would have to just be assuming costs less but thats doesn't make it true for example if they earned less 6 years ago than do now, if their budget was a third of what is now just some examples. Bit like comparing 2 projects one where someone earns $6 an hour and takes them 2 weeks with budget of $100k and another that earns $20 an hour and takes one week with a budget of $400k, without knowing all the details it is just an assumption that cost less to produce just because took less time.

[Alex Kershaw]

"Critics hailed the game as setting a new bar in RPG storytelling"

LOL

[Ryzaki]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Personally I reckon that given DAO was Bioware's best selling game ever that Bioware already hit that good balance between various kinds of RPGs and whatnot making some of the changes in DA2 unnecessary.

Hopefully we will get an Expansion to fill in the gaps of the main game.

 

Really? 

I thought that was Mass Effect 2. 

[tmp7704]

In Exile wrote...

Which is just I  (Part of) Ferelden. No different than I  Ferelden.

That's like saying "i love my family" is no different than "i love humanity".

Orlais also has innocent lives. So does Antiva. And even Tevinter.

Yes, and stopping the blight while it's still in Ferelden saves these as well as the denizens of Ferelden. Doing it the other way, not so much.

At the moment you're asked to make your choice Orlais, Antiva and even Tevinter have their own forces ready and able to defend them. Forces which won't gain much from two more fresh wardens joining them. Ferelden, not really.

When it comes down to saving the most possible lives it comes down to thinking the plan is good or bad. And at that point, there's no reason to believe Alistair/Flemeth's completely insane plan to use a 400 year old treaties has a chance in hell of working.

I'd imagine being sent to retrieve these treaties by the senior warden of Ferelden in the first place, is a good sign they were seen as valuable tool by people far more experienced than Alistair and (seemingly) Flemeth as well.

And when it comes to saving the most possible lives, it's arguable if abandoning chunk of them from the onset is going to contribute to this goal. In any case, at least gathering the extra armies is going to be more beneficial to overall war effort than two minor wardens could be on their own. It's not like the game tells you "and you will be forbidden from using these forces to support whoever else shows up to fight the blight in the meantime".

Unless you think the payoff is impossible.

True, but for these less pessimistic it remains a viable motivation which isn't "i  Ferelden".

It has nothing to do with it being a game, and everything to do with believing it is the best choice. Who cares, again, about Ferelden?

By the same logic, who cares about Orlais, Tevinter, Antiva and others?

Modifié par tmp7704, 03 août 2011 - 04:35 .

[T764]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

T764 wrote...

@ Dragoonlordz.

I doubt that i'm the only one but i ended up buying three copies of Origins on two different systems and a percentage of copies sold were to people who didn't like it and wouldn't buy a sequel.

Has Origins sold better? Absolutely.
Does 4+ million sales = 4+ million fans? Very unlikely.

In Exile's statement is not entirely wrong.

If two games are sold, one has many people negative about it and one positive about other the positive one will sell vastly more. People are not positive about things they don't like, if something has high sales it's because more people enjoyed it than it's less successful competitior. Like = more sales, dislike = less; just because 'some' people don't like it doesn't change that fact. In the end thats the exception that proves the rule.

His comments is like a fox circling a fence around chicken coop, he keeps going around until see's a tiny gap in fence and tries to force way in exploiting that gap or '****** in the armour figurativley speaking' but given (see above paragraph) being a true fact so that gap wasn't a gap after all, the fox is now trying to dig his way under the fence.

There are two main ways people on BSN argue about things they do the going around in circles looking for the ****** in armour or the other method of moving goal posts.

I didn't read the rest of In Exiles posts on the subject so i'll take your word on it, many people (not you specifically) will use the number of sales in a way to imply that every copy sold equals a fan of the game as opposed to just being a copy sold.

I personally don't like the 'high sales=good game' stance because it will not factor in things like people who buy and don't like the game, people who rebuy the game, marketing, where people buy, genre and (very much dependent on the game in question) any stock issues that may arise, all of these things can affect sales as much as a game being 'good' or 'bad'.