223 réponses à ce sujet

[Atakuma]

csfteeeer wrote...

2.That's no fact.
People payed for DAO and People liked it, that's what made the game sell well because it had  a great word of mouth, and something like that can severily increase the popularity of a game, even if it has no marketing at all (Demon's Souls.), that's why Origins is one of the most Succesful RPGs of the last few years, and one of the most popular ones of this Generation, but it wasn't popular for being Old-School, it was popular because people liked it.
You don't know what people thinks, but if you want to believe you do, fine.

And neither do you, so you should both stop presenting your arguments like facts.

[Dragoonlordz]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

You sure do like to grasp at straws don't you. Doesn't change the fact your merely trying to conjure up possibilities when in reality out of all possibilities there was only one reality and that is DAO sold well because people in general liked it and word got around how good it was [snips] when the reality/truth is simpler and what actually happened is one sold well because more people liked it and the other hasn't had such luck as of right now becuase people did not like it.

You claim there is a huge and wonderful audience for DAO games.  Prove it.  Where are all the RPG games just like DAO?  There aren't any.  Any non-niche RPG you point out is going to be a hybrid of an another kind of game.  That's what people want.  They demonstrate their desire with money.  DAO was popular because it was a throwback and fun for old time's sake.  That's what I bought it.  I would be as likely to buy DAO2 as I would NWN3 or BG3... both of which are the same kind of game as DAO.  And both of which never got off the drawing board.   Why is that?  Because the developer didn't want to make money off them... or because the developer couldn't make money off of them?  

;)


Facts are facts:  No one make games like DAO anymore because that kind of storytelling is a dead end, it's boring, and most gamers won't pay for it.

DAO sold very well because people liked it, DA2 did not sell so well because people did not like it.

End of story.

You can make excuses and come up with random theories till your blue in the face but won't change that.

From Diablo titles to DAO to NWN to BG they all are the bigger selling RPGs than your beloved DA2 now feel free to make excuses why that is but that's all your doing because your in denial and your fanatical devotion to a title that sold badly and wasn't liked being the reason. Your super-RPG button mash hybrid that you adore wasn't liked as much as it's prequel which means if anything your so called future of RPGs is not something people like. Games devs make mistakes all the time in their "assumptions" about what the players want hence why so many developers end up closing down when the sales don't back up their assumption.

If you worked for Bioware and was in charge of making anything relating to a major decision they would go bust because your idiology as proven time and again on BSN is one that people wouldn't in vast numbers be willing to buy. The only real competitor in the RPG (niché genre) to cRPG is open world titles like Oblivion, Skyrim etc. Other titles like Fallout and Dues Ex are FPS games with some RPG elements but make no mistake they aren't RPGs with FPS elements, they are FPS games.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 04 août 2011 - 04:01 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

csfteeeer wrote...

2.That's no fact.
People payed for DAO and People liked it, that's what made the game sell well because it had  a great word of mouth, and something like that can severily increase the popularity of a game, even if it has no marketing at all (Demon's Souls.), that's why Origins is one of the most Succesful RPGs of the last few years, and one of the most popular ones of this Generation, but it wasn't popular for being Old-School, it was popular because people liked it.

Annnnnd here you are agreeing with my point.  Word of mouth has a great impact on how well a game sells.  The Jilted Girlfriends trashed DA2, not because it was a bad game, but because it wasn't DAO2.

As for people liking games like DAO... where are the other games like DAO?  You seem to think there's are plenty of people waving cash waiting for someone to make a game like DAO2...  so how come no other developer has done just that?  Answer:  There aren't as many people as you think interested in DAO2.  People want hybrid action games like Twitcher 2 and DA2 much more than they want more DAO/NWN/BG games.

DA2's formula just needs a couple more tweaks to fix the problems.  It'll get much better.  I'm sure Twitcher 3 will be a great game too.  They'll get a coherent plot some good world lore together and turn it into an even better game and 2.  Good for all gamers! 

You don't know what people thinks, but if you want to believe you do, fine.

This sword!  It cuts.... both ways.  ;)

[TEWR]

Just because Origins sold well doesn't mean everyone who bought it liked it.


"Hey John, I just bought Origins the other day and it's amazing! You should buy it!"

*two days later*

"Yo Larry, I bought Origins like you suggested, but I didn't like it."

"Did you sell it back?"

"Nah I'm gonna keep it anyway. My sister loves it."

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

You sure do like to grasp at straws don't you. Doesn't change the fact your merely trying to conjure up possibilities when in reality out of all possibilities there was only one reality and that is DAO sold well because people in general liked it and word got around how good it was [snips] when the reality/truth is simpler and what actually happened is one sold well because more people liked it and the other hasn't had such luck as of right now becuase people did not like it.

There aren't any.  Any non-niche RPG you point out is going to be a hybrid of an another kind of game.  That's what people want.  They demonstrate their desire with money.  DAO was popular because it was a throwback and fun for old time's sake.  That's what I bought it.  I would be as likely to buy DAO2 as I would NWN3 or BG3... both of which are the same kind of game as DAO.  And both of which never got off the drawing board.   Why is that?  Because the developer didn't want to make money off them... or because the developer couldn't make money off of them?  

;)


Facts are facts:  No one make games like DAO anymore because that kind of storytelling is a dead end, it's boring, and most gamers won't pay for it.

DAO sold very well because people liked it, DA2 did not sell so well because people did not like it.

End of story.

You can make excuses and come up with random theories till your blue in the face but won't change that.

Answer my question: You claim there is a huge and wonderful audience for DAO games.  Prove it.  Where are all the RPG games just like DAO? 

You can't answer it.  Who needs theories?  Here's a fact:  There aren't any other games like DAO/NWN/BG.  Because very few people want to play them.

Games devs make mistakes all the time in their "assumptions" about what the players want hence why so many developers end up closing down when the sales don't back up their assumption.

If you worked for Bioware and was in charge of making anything relating to a major decision they would go bust because your idiology as proven time and again on BSN is one that people wouldn't in vast numbers be willing to buy.

DAO.  60 months of investment for something like two and a half million sales.
DA2.  18 months of investment for something like a million sales.
Twitcher 2:  48 months for a half million sales.

After a 60 month investment of time and money...  which outcome leads to springing for big name voice talent and hiring on an extra team to make an extra game?  Do the math. 

You don't need massive numbers (that would be fine thought).  You need repeat buyers that are willing to buy regularly.  I enjoyed the hell out of DA2, despite it's flaws and DA3 will be an instant pre-order for me. 

[Sylvianus]

They say that they wanted to do an episode darker. Okay, I fully agree. But why  create a dark atmosphere with cartoons ? Too bad.

Would it not have been scarier, more exciting with graphics more impressive ?

I can imagine how Kirkwall, the former city of slaves could transmit much more horror and chills with a minimum of realism.

Did they wanted to counteract what they perceived as something too depressed ? Or they just thought it would be better translated with this art design ? Or they haven't linked these two compartments and decided to choose this direction, regardless of the story ?

The polarized opinions didn't come as a surprise to Gaider and the DAII team. "If there's anything that's surprising," says Gaider, "it's just how polarized some of the reaction has been. There's a lot of love for Dragon Age among our fans, and that love can translate into passion.

I like this sentence. Without any claim to want to translate and summarize all what was said (because there are thousands of reasons) that pretty much describes the situation in a neutral manner.

"In my opinion, that's better than apathy, even if it forces you to filter out the extremes. However, the criticism should not be dismissed as simple nostalgia. There are fans who felt disappointed... and there's a feeling [on our team] that we want to improve from the groundwork we've laid down. At the end of the day, Dragon Age can't be everything to everyone – so we simply have to pick a direction and make it the best experience we can."

I also like what is being said here.  Yeah NO NOSTALGIA ! :devil:With Legacy, what I read from Mike, I think that DA3 will be better worked than the others.

The best points of DAO and DA2  with a minimum of major defects.

There are priorities as well, and resources are not unlimited. But the goal should be to achieve this :

Try to give to the weaknesses at least a reasonable level.
Try to exploit the strengths of this franchise.

The more areas worked, the least the flaws (at a level that isn't below the critical point as reused map or ennemies that jump from the sky ) will be perceived as breaking immersion or very important compared to the positive things.

Like dao. This game isn't perfect. Many defenders of that game are aware of this fact. Many flaws, simply the numerous qualities and the incredible work, make those flaws negligible.

And what constitute as well the strengh of Bioware,

Deep and epic story, well executed.
choice.
customization.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 04 août 2011 - 05:42 .

[ScotGaymer]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...


DAO.  60 months of investment for something like two and a half million sales.
DA2.  18 months of investment for something like a million sales.

These numbers are wrong.

Lol.

DA2 at last count sold around 2.2 million copies worldwide cross platform (if you believe Bioware).
DAO sold something like 4.5 million copies cross platform world wide if I remember correctly (I do remember Bioware saying that they aimed for 5 million copies with DA2 to sell more than DAO; and DA2 sold a little under half of DAO).

Not that I am disagreeing with you; just that your numbers r a bit off and thus weaken your arguement.

[Dragoonlordz]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...


Answer my question: You claim there is a huge and wonderful audience for DAO games.  Prove it. 

Feel free to go quote me from saying such a thing on here anywhere. I think you'll find me saying RPGs are a niché which is what always have been plus always will be.

Where are all the RPG games just like DAO?
 
-------------------------------------------------------------

You can't answer it.  Who needs theories?  Here's a fact:  There aren't any other games like DAO/NWN/BG.  Because very few people want to play them.

Make up your mind kid first you say no games like DAO then I list couple and you say no games like DAO+those couple, so if I list few more which are classed as crpg such as Diablo titles including 3, Torchlight titles what will you do next? Say there are no games like DAO, NVN, BG, Diablo, Torchlight?

DAO.  60 months of investment for something like two and a half million sales.
DA2.  18 months of investment for something like a million sales.
Twitcher 2:  48 months for a half million sales.

After a 60 month investment of time and money...  which outcome leads to springing for big name voice talent and hiring on an extra team to make an extra game?  Do the math. 

It doesn't matter if took one year or ten years if the budget spent on the one year project exceeds the budget for the ten year title ten the 1 year title needs to recoop more sales than the ten year one in order to make a profit.

You should also stop relying purely on VGC so much which is exactly where you got those figures since they don't take into account digital sales at all, proven by the fact in first week CDPR said themselves made over 400k sales (units sold) which at the time VGC only listed around 200k because of fact they don't use digital sales at all. DA2 sales as it stands right now are going so slow if goes any slower will go backwards. DAO still sells well and I would be surprised if DAO isn't selling more copies right now than DA2 even after all these years and DA2 being a newish title.

You don't need massive numbers (that would be fine thought).  You need repeat buyers that are willing to buy regularly.  I enjoyed the hell out of DA2, despite it's flaws and DA3 will be an instant pre-order for me. 

Thats the opposite of your original comments months ago saying the exact opposite. Using fallacy of stagnation to base your arguements on back then where you said if they don't go specifically for much larger audience then they are doomed to failure in fact you claimed they can't rely on on repeat purchases from fans and should rely on new broader new audience because of your fake fear of stagnation you ranted on about back then.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 04 août 2011 - 06:57 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

These numbers are wrong.

DA2 at last count sold around 2.2 million copies worldwide cross platform (if you believe Bioware).
DAO sold something like 4.5 million copies cross platform world wide if I remember correctly (I do remember Bioware saying that they aimed for 5 million copies with DA2 to sell more than DAO; and DA2 sold a little under half of DAO).

Not that I am disagreeing with you; just that your numbers r a bit off and thus weaken your arguement.

Slantee!  I think that's how you guys say it.  There was this Scottish exchange student when I was in school.. <3  The girls hated her.  The boys loved her.  We could call each other mothermuckers all the time.  I know... cool story Rin-bro-che.

I knew my numbers were crappy, but they were the best estimates I could recall off the top of my head.  Appreciate the fact check!

[ScotGaymer]

Lol.

Slainte?

Thats Irish. Whole nother nation, part of which is independent from the UK lol.

But ur welcome. I am not 100% sure about my numbers but I seem to recall those numbers came from the Devs themselves on how many units BW had shifted.
EDIT: Also seem to recall that these numbers do not include Digital Distribution methods...

It makes DAO Bioware's best selling game ever. Even outselling ME (though not by much).

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 04 août 2011 - 07:39 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Dragoonlordz wrote...


Feel free to go quote me from saying such a thing on here anywhere. I think you'll find me saying RPGs are a niché which is what always have been plus always will be.

I disagree.  RPGs as a genre are more than niche.  And as BioWare's compounds tweaks to the forumla, games like DA3 will become even more popular as time goes on.

With that said, a niche market should be even easier to captialize on.  So where are all the developers making games to make money on fans of DAO/NWN/BG games?  Easy answer:  There aren't that many people interested in that kind of game any more.

Make up your mind kid first you say no games like DAO then I list couple and you say no games like DAO+those couple, so if I list few more which are classed as crpg such as Diablo titles including 3, Torchlight titles what will you do next? Say there are no games like DAO, NVN, BG, Diablo, Torchlight?

You're splitting hairs and in doing so, you're proving my point.  Very few people want modern games like DAO/NWN/BG.  Diablo, Torchlight...  hybrid RPGs at best... action games with RPG elements in reality.  The story is so thin in those games that they come with waivers you have to sign prohibiting you from farting while you play them.  Otherwise you run the risk of blowing the story clean away.

It doesn't matter if took one year or ten years if the budget spent on the one year project exceeds the budget for the ten year title ten the 1 year title needs to recoop more sales than the ten year one in order to make a profit.

I agree with you.  Which ever one makes the most money ultimately wins.  In each example I cited, assume a reasonable budget.  That mean the game with a regular, smaller audience makes more money than the four to five year game with the bigger audience.  Awesome!  Good to find we have some common ground!

Thats the opposite of your original comments months ago saying the exact opposite. Using fallacy of stagnation to base your arguements on back then where you said if they don't go specifically for much larger audience then they are doomed to failure in fact you claimed they can't rely on on repeat purchases from fans and should rely on new broader new audience because of your fake fear of stagnation you ranted on about back then.

It's not a fake fear.  Here's the proof:  If they make DAO2, I won't buy it.  Why?  I played DAO, I played NWN, I played BG.  That kind of gameplay is old, boring, unchanging.  I never played NWN2.  Why?  Boring.  I never cared that BG3 was rumored.  Why?  Boring.  The genre had, in a word, stagnanted.

And for the record, no, desipte the fears of many jilted girlfriends, BioWare should not abandon all those girlfriends.  They should invite them into a threeway with a whole new group of gamers.  The boring G.F.s that refuse change can be let go.  You can't please everyone.  The ones that are up for a great story and a fun time...  You invite those to the party.

You aren't against threeways, are you?

I didn't think so.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Lol.

Slainte?

Thats Irish. Whole nother nation, part of which is independent from the UK lol.

He swings.... he misses.  :lol:

[Tommy6860]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

DAO.  60 months of investment for something like two and a half million sales.
DA2.  18 months of investment for something like a million sales.
Twitcher 2:  48 months for a half million sales.

After a 60 month investment of time and money...  which outcome leads to springing for big name voice talent and hiring on an extra team to make an extra game?  Do the math. 

You don't need massive numbers (that would be fine thought).  You need repeat buyers that are willing to buy regularly.  I enjoyed the hell out of DA2, despite it's flaws and DA3 will be an instant pre-order for me. 

Except that (if going by the DA2 figure you posit, which look like it is from the 360 platform), it hasn't come close to a million yet. In fact, and I know people groan with VGChatrz, but on the 360 (of which I think you're gauging here), it is stuck in the 700K range in sales, and has been for a few months now, while Origin has been outselling DA2 by a few thousand a week and still is, when the DA2 happy release time frame, wore out within 3 weeks of release, due to mainly pre-order sales.. DA2 has been stuck in the 700K sold range now for nearly 2 months, and I doubt it will ever get above it in the next 6.

Funny how that 5 year investment is still reaping dividends. IN total, DA2 hasn't hit 1.5m in total sales across all platforms. And DA2 took over two years to dev, not 18 months, as one ex-bioware employee already stated long ago. Now do the math, 1.5m in sales/2dev-years compared to 4.3m/5dev years. To make even more of an impact, going with just 360 sales: 760K on the 360/2dy=380k per year. Origins sold 2.1m/5dy=420K per year.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 04 août 2011 - 10:23 .

[vallore]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...


Feel free to go quote me from saying such a thing on here anywhere. I think you'll find me saying RPGs are a niché which is what always have been plus always will be.

I disagree.  RPGs as a genre are more than niche.  And as BioWare's compounds tweaks to the forumla, games like DA3 will become even more popular as time goes on.

With that said, a niche market should be even easier to captialize on.  So where are all the developers making games to make money on fans of DAO/NWN/BG games?  Easy answer:  There aren't that many people interested in that kind of game any more.

Make up your mind kid first you say no games like DAO then I list couple and you say no games like DAO+those couple, so if I list few more which are classed as crpg such as Diablo titles including 3, Torchlight titles what will you do next? Say there are no games like DAO, NVN, BG, Diablo, Torchlight?

You're splitting hairs and in doing so, you're proving my point.  Very few people want modern games like DAO/NWN/BG.  Diablo, Torchlight...  hybrid RPGs at best... action games with RPG elements in reality.  The story is so thin in those games that they come with waivers you have to sign prohibiting you from farting while you play them.  Otherwise you run the risk of blowing the story clean away.

It doesn't matter if took one year or ten years if the budget spent on the one year project exceeds the budget for the ten year title ten the 1 year title needs to recoop more sales than the ten year one in order to make a profit.

I agree with you.  Which ever one makes the most money ultimately wins.  In each example I cited, assume a reasonable budget.  That mean the game with a regular, smaller audience makes more money than the four to five year game with the bigger audience.  Awesome!  Good to find we have some common ground!

Thats the opposite of your original comments months ago saying the exact opposite. Using fallacy of stagnation to base your arguements on back then where you said if they don't go specifically for much larger audience then they are doomed to failure in fact you claimed they can't rely on on repeat purchases from fans and should rely on new broader new audience because of your fake fear of stagnation you ranted on about back then.

It's not a fake fear.  Here's the proof:  If they make DAO2, I won't buy it.  Why?  I played DAO, I played NWN, I played BG.  That kind of gameplay is old, boring, unchanging.  I never played NWN2.  Why?  Boring.  I never cared that BG3 was rumored.  Why?  Boring.  The genre had, in a word, stagnanted.

And for the record, no, desipte the fears of many jilted girlfriends, BioWare should not abandon all those girlfriends.  They should invite them into a threeway with a whole new group of gamers.  The boring G.F.s that refuse change can be let go.  You can't please everyone.  The ones that are up for a great story and a fun time...  You invite those to the party.

You aren't against threeways, are you?

I didn't think so.

Rinpo, given your evidence, if we follow logic, you are actually providing some of the best reasons why we should not have, and likely will not have, another DA2.

[Morroian]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Funny how that 5 year investment is still reaping dividends. IN total, DA2 hasn't hit 1.5m in total sales across all platforms. And DA2 took over two years to dev, not 18 months, as one ex-bioware employee already stated long ago. Now do the math, 1.5m in sales/2dev-years compared to 4.3m/5dev years. To make even more of an impact, going with just 360 sales: 760K on the 360/2dy=380k per year. Origins sold 2.1m/5dy=420K per year.

Those figures don't include digital sales plus EA do get paid for all copies shipped to retailers, games aren't held on consignment at retailers.

Note that I'm not trying to claim that DA2 came close to DAO in sales, obviously it hasn't and won't. But for those trying to score points about the sale figures of DA2 I don't know why it isn't sufficient to simply say that DA2 sold a lot less than DAO and leave it at that rather than trying to make points about the exact number of sales, sold in vs retail sales etc. when we don't have even close to exact figures for any of that. Even by taking the EA published numbers it looks bad for DA2, leave it at that. 

[IRMcGhee]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...
Lol.
Slainte?
Thats Irish. Whole nother nation, part of which is independent from the UK lol.

He swings.... he misses.  :lol:

Actually, spelling aside, you hit Scots version is Slàinte mhath in full, the Irish Gaelic version has slightly different spelling, same meaning 'tho. 

Modifié par IRMcGhee, 04 août 2011 - 11:58 .

[Tommy6860]

Morroian wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

Funny how that 5 year investment is still reaping dividends. IN total, DA2 hasn't hit 1.5m in total sales across all platforms. And DA2 took over two years to dev, not 18 months, as one ex-bioware employee already stated long ago. Now do the math, 1.5m in sales/2dev-years compared to 4.3m/5dev years. To make even more of an impact, going with just 360 sales: 760K on the 360/2dy=380k per year. Origins sold 2.1m/5dy=420K per year.

Those figures don't include digital sales plus EA do get paid for all copies shipped to retailers, games aren't held on consignment at retailers.

Note that I'm not trying to claim that DA2 came close to DAO in sales, obviously it hasn't and won't. But for those trying to score points about the sale figures of DA2 I don't know why it isn't sufficient to simply say that DA2 sold a lot less than DAO and leave it at that rather than trying to make points about the exact number of sales, sold in vs retail sales etc. when we don't have even close to exact figures for any of that. Even by taking the EA published numbers it looks bad for DA2, leave it at that. 

But then you'd have to also include digital sales on Origin as well; it cuts both ways and since Origin has been out much longer, it is safe to say that it outsold DA2 in digital sales as well. It's not hard to extrapolate the numbers for DA2 selling a lot right off, based on the pre-orders of those who bought into Origin and loved that game. Since Origin is now outselling DA2 (and has been for a few months now) says a lot that DA2 sold out of the gate on the great reception and sales of Origin by those who pre-ordered it taht had played Origin. If DA2 had even come somewhat closer to sales totals, that would at least give the appearance there was some good reaction to the game and some satiifaction to its quality. I have a feeling the pre-orders were the primary sales drvier, and the DA2 demo played by those who wanted to see how it "could" play, killed sales to anyone that liked Origin and saw that DA2 wasn't going to be to their liking. I wonder what the sales would have been had DA2 not released a demo, since (IIRC) the demo download was well over 2m, but overall sales are not even close to that.

[Andraste_Reborn]

Just because Origins sold well doesn't mean everyone who bought it liked it.

Indeed. While I understand that the plural of anecdote is not data: four of my friends bought DAO around the same time I did. Only one of them finished it, and he only finished it once. None of these people have purchased DA2. None of them bought any DLC or Awakening.

Meanwhile I finished the game seven times, bought almost all of the DLC (not interested in Darkspawn Chronicles) and the expansion and waited outside my local game shop to get DA2 on opening day.So in my social circle, that's one person who became a hardcore fan after DAO, one who played to the end but didn't like it enough to buy the sequel, and three who didn't bother to finish it. Who knows how many of the people who bought the game are in that last category? (Well, BioWare has a fair idea based on telemetry data, but they're not going to share the specifics with us.)

[Daveros]

Andrastee wrote...

Indeed. While I understand that the plural of anecdote is not data:

Whilst you're right, it's not, it does however make for an interesting discussion and thought process. It doesn't cement my beliefs but it does allow me to ponder them for longer. Thank you for sharing.

[Morroian]

Andrastee wrote...

Indeed. While I understand that the plural of anecdote is not data: four of my friends bought DAO around the same time I did. Only one of them finished it, and he only finished it once. None of these people have purchased DA2. None of them bought any DLC or Awakening.

Interesting, this adds some weight to the original point

[ScotGaymer]

IRMcGhee wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...
Lol.
Slainte?
Thats Irish. Whole nother nation, part of which is independent from the UK lol.

He swings.... he misses.  :lol:

Actually, spelling aside, you hit Scots version is Slàinte mhath in full, the Irish Gaelic version has slightly different spelling, same meaning 'tho. 

You mean the Scots Gaelic.

Scots is a different language en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots_language have a lookie.

[Andraste_Reborn]

Interesting, this adds some weight to the original point

Every time I see someone insisting that people loved DAO and making sweeping changes to it was a bad idea, I can't help but think of my friends and their complaints that it was too long, boring and/or difficult. (Before anyone jumps to conclusions about my friends, I feel like I should point out that three of them have finished the Baldur's Gate games multiple times. They just feel like they've moved on from that kind of CRPG gameplay in the intervening decade.)

[vallore]

Andrastee wrote...

Interesting, this adds some weight to the original point

Every time I see someone insisting that people loved DAO and making sweeping changes to it was a bad idea, I can't help but think of my friends and their complaints that it was too long, boring and/or difficult. (Before anyone jumps to conclusions about my friends, I feel like I should point out that three of them have finished the Baldur's Gate games multiple times. They just feel like they've moved on from that kind of CRPG gameplay in the intervening decade.)

And yet for every such tale there seems to be several others that are just the opposite; with people making similar claims about DA2: boring, too short or too easy are common descriptions I’ve heard. Fact is, different people have different tastes, DA2 wasn’t an improvement; it just fitted better the tastes of some and worse the tastes of others.

Frankly, one of the major problems I saw with DA2 was that it felt less accommodating for different styles of gamers than Origins was. It focused too much in catering to a few fans while leaving the rest without much to have fun with.

[IRMcGhee]

IRMcGhee wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...
Lol.
Slainte?
Thats Irish. Whole nother nation, part of which is independent from the UK lol.

He swings.... he misses.  

Actually, spelling aside, you hit Scots version is Slàinte mhath in full, the Irish Gaelic version has slightly different spelling, same meaning 'tho. 

"You mean the Scots Gaelic.
Scots is a different language en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots_language have a lookie."

Yep, I was referring to the Gaelic, thought that was clear. Coming from Paisley I do know the difference 

Modifié par IRMcGhee, 08 août 2011 - 09:24 .