173 réponses à ce sujet

[oracle343gspark]

KaidanWilliamsShepard wrote...

oracle343gspark wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

oracle343gspark wrote...

You know Birdo is a dude?

Wait... what?

Yeah it says in the manual for Super Mario Bros. 2. Yoshi is in love with Birdo, which makes them both gay.

Birdo is female dude...

"Birdo's gender in the original manual for Super Mario Bros. 2 asserts that Birdo is a boy who believes that he is a girl, and would rather be referred to as 'Birdetta'. " Look it up.

[Ghost Warrior]

I don't see what was so upsetting in what Casey said. He said it's expensive and could have been cut,and that 1/5 of the players play as FemShep.So what?

[neftones]

seems to me like OP is mistaking Hudson's quote about people choosing femShep for actual female gamers, nevermind any other misunderstanding about the meaning of the quote.

[Wynne]

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

oracle343gspark wrote...

LOL. Really? 30-40%?

Yes, but most women play casual games like Farmville and other stuff.

 Most gamers play casual games like Farmville and other stuff, as well as MMORPGs. Sixty-five percent of gamers play games with other gamers in person. Fifty-five percent of gamers play games on their phones or handheld device. We, Mass Effect fans, or hardcore gamers in general if you prefer, are all the minority if you look at it that way.

Convincing casual gamers to try something like this should be easier because it resembles a sci-fi movie you can live in. It's like a modern update of Star Trek or Star Wars where you craft the hero and you make the decisions; the comparison, at least, can help break it down so that it doesn't sound so intimidating. The easiest difficulty settings are there for a reason, after all.

Rather than lamenting the prevalence of casual gamers, maybe we should just say, "well, hey, that's a start." Baby steps are required before you walk. Women are still catching up to men, in the workplace and in other arenas. That's just the way it is when the world is recovering from centuries of oppression. Change is slow, and even though life is better for everyone now, it's not perfect. It will take time before gaming is truly no longer seen as a male hobby and/or "just for geeks", and I think it helps a little if we just politely refuse to accept either stereotype.

Mr.Kusy wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

Most women are put off by the idea of becoming gamers due to the highly sexualized image that games give them.
It's a shame really.

How
is it a shame and why would that argument be valid? You're trying to
tell me that females can't play video games because female characters
are overidealised in games? If this was the case nobody should play
video games because all characters there are overidealised, Just because
I'm not a humungus beefcake I can't enjoy playing Gears of War?

"Can't" isn't the operative word. "Won't" is.

Looking at a giant set of breasts on a terrifyingly anorexic woman with legs twice as long as her body bores me instantaneously. God of War is a game I'd never play no matter how good it is or how funny the X-Play sketches were because a sex mini-game is about the lamest thing I've ever heard. For the record, I avoid the games that overidealize males as well--I just see that kind of exaggeration as dull, pointless, stupid, irritating, and insulting. I don't judge others for liking that sort of thing; I simply don't like it myself for the most part. I don't appreciate humongous steroidal beefcakes; I like my heroes lean and mean and deliciously sardonic, like Garrett from the Thief series. It takes a lot for me to forgive a game for doing stupid, sexist things--the Witcher series is one of my few exceptions, and that was only at the repeated urgings of my father and a number of male friends of mine. I had first dismissed it as completely corny, one-dimensional crap with an annoying hero (I actually like Geralt now that I know him, but if I hadn't known people who played the games...) 

I simply choose the titles that go for a measure of realism and/or depth. If I hadn't grown up knowing the pleasure of a game that is about much more than giant muscles and bloody rampages, I probably wouldn't be into gaming at all.

That said, female main characters like Jade from BG&E, the newer version of Lara Croft, the women in Dead Island, the females in the Left 4 Dead games, the girl from Mirror's Edge, etc. are an encouraging trend. We're moving towards the type of character that both male and female gamers can love.

[Varen Spectre]

musicalfrog7 wrote...
I am thankful. I just didn't know what the context nor the meaning of the quote was.

If that's the case,... you could have simply asked without making any preliminary conclusions about 2 minute long interview, in which Casey tried to present as much features as possible ...

As an avid female gamer, I am surprisingly hurt by this. The video does not show what the context is but when it is haphazardly thrown into a video like that, what am I to think? It sounds like such a strong disregard to the female fandom. I've thought for a long while, that Bioware cared more about the female fanbase than any other developer out there. Is that not true? Is it not true anymore?

Next time, you should be more careful.

[Sidney]

Really if the ratio is that low the cost of FemShep isn't worth it. If the amount of money spent on FemShep can be used to add more content for ManShep and you help 80+% of the players that sounds like a better use of money.

[ThePwener]

Sidney wrote...

Really if the ratio is that low the cost of FemShep isn't worth it. If the amount of money spent on FemShep can be used to add more content for ManShep and you help 80+% of the players that sounds like a better use of money.

Oh here we go again.....

[Ihatebadgames]

I don't really agree with the 1/5 as I've played many Shepards,of both genders.Some have finished both games and some have dropped by the wayside,and some are on a dead 360.I like to get as much story as I can.So I need both genders good and bad.Polls are minipulated to give what the boss wants to hear.But since Femshep is already slated for 3 then no harm no foul.

[oracle343gspark]

Don't you think women would find it sexist that we haven't seen ANY female aliens aside from the Asari and Quorians (though only their suits.)?

[ThePwener]

Ihatebadgames wrote...

I've played many Shepards,of both genders

Wait... at the same time?

[ThePwener]

oracle343gspark wrote...

Don't you think women would find it sexist that we haven't seen ANY female aliens aside from the Asari and Quorians (though only their suits.)?

ME3 has female Krogans (Krogan Princess). Salarian Females are rare outside of the Home World and I think that Garrus's sister in too.

[javierabegazo]

100k wrote...

@musicalfrog7

There's no reason for you to be hurt. Mr Hudson was reassuring players that there would still be effort into creating differences between the two genders. Honestly, Casey was probably being generous when he said one fifth of the players are women. In reality, probably less than one eighth are female gamers.

You see, its great that Mass Effect is both a male and female friendly experience, but the games and their premises were never marketed like that. On the cover, in the trailers, and for the demos, Mass Effect (1,2) displayed nothing beyond the ordinary to the untrained eye. Just "a space marine fighting aliens and saving the world" is what most people tend to see.

Now, it's easy for you and I to look at Mass Effect, see the developer logo, and guess that its a far more complex title than that. But most gamers (and I cannot stress this enough) don't go onto online forums, play through development series (unless its in the social shooter genre), or know ANYTHING about a title before they pick it up in the store.

As such, when your average man and woman walk into Target looking for a title to pick up, they will likely only the face value on the cover. The man will be (likely) more excited to see a new space oriented shooter, because that's what he's used to playing/watching. The woman will likely ignore it, because she doesn't know about the CC, femShepard, or other female characters in the game. It'll just be another "macho" game to her.

NOW this DOESN'T apply to everyone -- and I'd be the first to admit that. But what you all have to understand is that gaming forum populations account for less than 25% of actual consumers.

If a woman sees a trailer for Mass Effect, but the trailer doesn't show that you can tailor your character to your preferences, she will be more likely to ignore that title than her male counterpart who will already be (subconsciously) used to this kind of title.

Just want to pull this up again.

[100k]

Wynne wrote...
 Maybe, but if that is the case, then there's a whole pool of female buyers that Bioware isn't drawing in yet. 40% of gamers are female, and it's been theorized that roughly 20%  of pure shooter players are female--and ME isn't even a pure shooter.

I'm not sure if I believe this quote applies to the kind of gaming you and I are talking about. I heard that 40% of gamers are female and was baffled. But I also heard that something like 80% of female gamers play Farm, Cityville, and other flash games. This made sense to me, considering how popular The Sims was with women PC gamers in the past. 

I'd wager the amount of women gamers who play RPGs like Skyrim, World of Warcraft, Everquest, Thief, System Shock, Bioshock, etc. is higher than the amount who play Call of Duty or, say, RTS games.

Maybe. But I wouldn't be surprised if the COD fem audience alone towers above those seven games put together. Hell, COD single handedly has the largest and most consistent online audience of today, even beating WoW. Partially because its multiplat, and partly because its so accessible and casual. 

Hybrid genres can be very attractive, especially when it comes to RPGs. I never would've started playing FPS games if not for the Thief and System Shock games, which showed me that there could be more to a shooter than--well, shooting. That a game could make me want to shoot things because the plot had drawn me in, just like the adventure games and pure RPGs I was used to.

Very true. Hell, this is why I don't play COD anymore. And rarely Halo. They are too casual, and don't offer the kind of gaming experience (storytelling) that I'm looking for. But it is important to note that most gaming consumers are "casual". Beating COD's SP in 4 hours, then hoping into the online with almost no wait is extremely attractive to most people who just want passive entertainment. I can see why -- I don't always agree, but I can certainly see why.

If considerably less than 20% of the ME audience is female, then there's clear room for improvement. I think somebody realized that and said, "If we're spending money on developing the female Shepard, then why not promote the female Shepard?" I agree wholeheartedly with that decision.

Of course, and I'd never disagree with that. But looking at the success that games like Sims, Animal Farm (or whatever it's called), Cityville, etc had with female gamers tells me something: casual women gamers are attracted to micro managing in gaming. 

By having promotions like this, I personally feel women would be more inclined to purchase Mass Effect 3.

:)

This is exactly what I've been saying since the first game! Really glad they finally seem to be committed to changing that. I think a lot of female gamers don't buy games unless they let you play a female character or at least appeal to more than adolescent male interests. (I don't mean to be disaparaging--I'm just thinking of grown males I know who got excited about the Transformers movies; sometimes, the little boy or girl in us just comes out, and there's nothing wrong with that, but generally the opposite sex is not going to understand it.)
I've been tired of the macho, shaved-headed military man in space since before he became a cliche. If I didn't know Shepard as a character, I wouldn't know he could be more than that. Without my long history with Bioware as a company, I never would've guessed you could play ME as a woman. Marketing this stuff is so important.

Your preaching to the choir. I'm so sick of gaming being saturated with douche bag dude bros that demand more of this:



Fortunately though, gaming is getting much better when it comes to handling female characters, both in appearances and as human beings. The problem is that the genres these apply to are already so saturated with decades of sexism, that women rarely are drawn to them.
<_<<_<<_<

Modifié par 100k, 01 août 2011 - 11:05 .

[oracle343gspark]

ThePwener wrote...

oracle343gspark wrote...

Don't you think women would find it sexist that we haven't seen ANY female aliens aside from the Asari and Quorians (though only their suits.)?

ME3 has female Krogans (Krogan Princess). Salarian Females are rare outside of the Home World and I think that Garrus's sister in too.

Yeah I'm glad they're finally doing this. I just think it's strange that a game that goes into so much detail with the universe's history, would only show the male versions of so many species in the two games that we already have.

[Bryy_Miller]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Women are not a minority.

Good observation.
However, this thread is about female Shepards. They are a minority.

Most women are put off by the idea of becoming gamers due to the highly sexualized image that games give them.
It's a shame really.

How is it a shame and why would that argument be valid? You're trying to tell me that females can't play video games because female characters are overidealised in games? If this was the case nobody should play video games because all characters there are overidealised, Just because I'm not a humungus beefcake I can't enjoy playing Gears of War?

Girls don't play video games because most of them can't grasp that many flashing and moving things in a 3D environment with their not manly enough minds! Ha! Scientificly prooven fact!

You had a good post going, but then you decided to ruin it with parody for some reason.

[Kusy]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Mr.Kusy wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Women are not a minority.

Good observation.
However, this thread is about female Shepards. They are a minority.

Most women are put off by the idea of becoming gamers due to the highly sexualized image that games give them.
It's a shame really.

How is it a shame and why would that argument be valid? You're trying to tell me that females can't play video games because female characters are overidealised in games? If this was the case nobody should play video games because all characters there are overidealised, Just because I'm not a humungus beefcake I can't enjoy playing Gears of War?

Girls don't play video games because most of them can't grasp that many flashing and moving things in a 3D environment with their not manly enough minds! Ha! Scientificly prooven fact!

You had a good post going, but then you decided to ruin it with parody for some reason.

The original post did not show my true, ugly, sexist form.

[crimzontearz]

KaidanWilliamsShepard wrote...

So he expects us to be grateful or something, when we are already throwing our cash at this guy?
I better stop, because you arent allowed to talk negatively about the Devs (Even when they seem to be begging for it).

Casey...
it's something we could've cut a long time ago because it's actually very expensive for us to develop."

Wow...just wow.
Well Casey, thats why you guys get payed...so you can make a better game.
That video was strange, it was an unfathomably strange thing to bring up, considering the direction the interview was already going in.

uh.....yeah they also get paid to try and get in the most reuturn of investment. If that means cutting features then they ALSO get paid to decide that

And I am not saying they should I am just saying your argument is faulty. And yes I have been on the receiving end of Biware's "feature cutting" because of budget/time before (happened only once), it sucks....no matter the explanation especially if the feature in question makes or breaks the game for you

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Article on statistics.  http://www.1up.com/n...-effect-2-stats

Whether you know it or not, you send info back to BioWare/EA.  Can't remember where it is, but there is an option to opt out (not send stas).  These articles never mention that, however.

Which is a great point.  All the stats collected come should be read with "....of the players that allowed their data to be collected." 

Now tell me, who is more likely to disable the collection of their game data?  Someone that plays Thundernuts, the Male Soldier, or Linda-Sue, the emotional FemShep sniper?  I'm think the guy playing a girl is much more likely to opt out of the data collection, so those numbers are skewed.

I've always wondered how many people actually do opt out of data collection anyways....  Maybe it's only like twelve.  :lol:

Modifié par RinpocheSchnozberry, 02 août 2011 - 12:31 .

[Bryy_Miller]

KaidanWilliamsShepard wrote...

So he expects us to be grateful or something, when we are already throwing our cash at this guy?

Um, no? He's being honest. 

[CaptREDKangaroo]

Clara Shepard wrote...

musicalfrog7 wrote...

A friend of mine linked a video from game trailers today about him talking about ME3 at comic con. I haven't been keeping up with Bioware actively since the original Dragon Age came out but every now and then slivers of information come my way.

In the video I found there to be a questionable sounding quote:

"We find that about one fifth of the players play female characters. You know, we've put a lot of effort over the course of this series to do a really good job of both the male and female experience as Commander Shepherd. And it's something we could've cut a long time ago because it's actually very expensive for us to develop."


As an avid female gamer, I am surprisingly hurt by this. The video does not show what the context is but when it is haphazardly thrown into a video like that, what am I to think? It sounds like such a strong disregard to the female fandom. I've thought for a long while, that Bioware cared more about the female fanbase than any other developer out there. Is that not true? Is it not true anymore?

One fifth? That cannot be. I was never polled nor asked what shepherd I play. Where does this poll data come from? The website? Video game registration? An educated guess? I feel like that statistic is unfairly wrong and inaccurate to judge on whether or not it's worthwhile to have a female playable character.

I love it when video game companies make video games that invite girls and women to play them by being approachable to our gender and/or adding a heroine that we can identify with. If the quote is about feeling under appreciated for your (Bioware's work) on the female heroines, I most certainly do love it and appreciate it. It's part of the reason why I love Bioware games so much!



The link in question can be found here:

I agree wih you, bioware always cared about us before :'( why not now? We love them for having the choice to be a man or woman, that's just what makes them more awesome than other companies  but if they got rid o tht choice between genders... I might reconsider purchasing future games...

They are doing MORE for ME3 with regards to FemShep than ever; so now they don't care? I think Casey was just being honest, and instead of caving to what poll data showed, regardless how it was gotten, because fewer ppl do play Femshep, even if it's more than a fifth it's not equal to Mshep. (supposition based on whatever data they got, yes). They're trying to change that with the new marketing for ME3. They should have done that earlier frankly.

They aren't getting rid of the choice Casey just saying from a financial and marketing perespective they could have. Aka the Renegade choice =D They choose the Paragon. Trust me, knowing EA's rep, I'm sure they pressured BioWare to just get rid of Femshep. Should be glad they stood up and are doing even more, BUT could Casey and BioWare do MORE for FemShep earlier? YES. So no shouldn't be grateful. Truth is they could have equally marketed both, but that's more expensive.

Modifié par CaptREDKangaroo, 02 août 2011 - 02:05 .

[YNation913]

1. If you're playing on a device with wifi, you've officially exposed yourself to the statistics, no poll needed. They know A LOT about how we play.
2. I'm not entirely sure which part of the statement bothers you. How can you presume Bioware's devotion to female players has dimished if the whole statement was hypothetical? He didn't say he was cutting the female role, quite the opposite, he said that the devs were putting an enormous amount of extra effort so players like you would be satisfied.

[AmyMac]

I don't think the statement is insulting at all. I'm a female gamer and all of my Shepards have been female. Having a feature that allows the player to have a female character is something that tends to make me more likely to buy a game (especially a RPG). That isn't to say that I don't enjoy playing Gears of War, but it isn't a game that I play because it has a fantastic, well-thought-out storyline with a roleplaying experience that I can truly immerse myself in. I play GoW purely for the shooter gameplay and because I can co-op with my friends on it.
I'm well aware that women are a minority *within the gaming community.* I'm well aware that most women would rather play **** games on the Wii that are completely and utterly devoid of deep, well-developed stories/characters/etc. But the market still exists, small as it may be -- they wouldn't do it if there wasn't something to be gained from it. I won't refuse to buy a game just because the only player character option is male, but if the choice is between Game A where that is the case and Game B where the player can have a female character, I'm more likely to pick Game B.
And silly as it may sound, if the Collector's Edition of ME3 actually does feature a female Shepard on the cover art, that will make me more likely to buy it as well. If you think it's absurd ... well, it's my money and I can spend it how I want. =P

[kill_switch_423]

KaidanWilliamsShepard wrote...

oracle343gspark wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

oracle343gspark wrote...

You know Birdo is a dude?

Wait... what?

Yeah it says in the manual for Super Mario Bros. 2. Yoshi is in love with Birdo, which makes them both gay.

Birdo is female dude...

Super Mario Bros. 2 is actually a reskin of a game called Doki Doki Panic.  Literally, the game is the same but the characters were changed.  The whole Birdo is male thing was an oversight in the reskinning, and has since been corrected by Nintendo.  Birdo is female.

...What were we talking about?

Edit:  source.

"Birdo, known in Japan as Catherine (キャサリン Kyasarin?), is a fictional character in the Mario series of video games, who first appeared in Yume Kōjō: Doki Doki Panic, which was localized for English audiences as Super Mario Bros. 2 and is an enemy to Mario. Since her appearance, Birdo has been a recurring character in the series, more frequently in the Mario sports games as a playable character, as well as Mario Party titles. She has also made several cameos, particularly in the Super Smash Bros. series and the Wii video game Captain Rainbow.
Birdo's gender in the original manual for Super Mario Bros. 2 asserts that Birdo is a boy who believes that he is a girl, and would rather be referred to as "Birdetta". Later releases of Super Mario Bros. 2 lacked any mention of her gender in either the game or the manual. Nintendo eventually established Birdo as female, first in Mario Tennis which depicted Birdo and Yoshi as boyfriend and girlfriend. However, several games portray her as male, such as Captain Rainbow, or refer to the gender confusion without assigning one, such as in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. It has been suggested that Birdo is a post-op transsexual by transsexual video game developer Jennifer Reitz, while Wired editor Chris Kohler felt that it was a way of retconning her transgender status."

Yay Wikipedia.

Modifié par kill_switch_423, 02 août 2011 - 03:07 .

[Boiny Bunny]

Surely such information comes from the in-game data collection. Gender would probably be THE most significant thing it would pick up right away - along with major choices made, backgrounds selected, classes selected, etc.

Furthermore, I would think the statement is worrying more than offensive.

Bioware picked up stats that in DA:O only something like 12% of players played as a dwarf.  Guess what got cut in DA2 as a result?  (Amongst many other things - they apparantly also figured out that a massive percentage of players never got past Ostagar even once).

Modifié par Boiny Bunny, 02 août 2011 - 03:08 .