483 réponses à ce sujet

[l DryIce l]

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

Had the Quarians not attempted to destroy the Geth, the Morning War probably wouldn't have happened at all. We didn't destroy the Krogans for their actions before and after the Krogan Rebellions, did we? I absolutely don't understand how any of you can actually favor war over peace. 

Except the Krogan are mostly isolated and have been extremely weakened. The Geth on the other hand are rapidly expanding and, as shown by their actions against Shepard and the Quarians, have some strong anti-organic sentiments.

The Geth are isolationists. They want to be left alone. And why do their numbers matter in the first place? That shouldn't be what determines whether or not something is ethical. 

Modifié par l DryIce l, 02 août 2011 - 09:19 .

[l DryIce l]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

@The Big Bad Wolf

I agree with you to a point. It was murder. Not intentional murder, but murder nonetheless. And whether it was a malfunction that led to their sentience or not, the Geth are currently sentient. People need to realize that, because when you say it was just a "malfunction", it seems like you are assuming that they are still following some predetermined programming. They are not.

The geth becoming sentient was a malfunction. That's what I mean.

And my point is, so what? Their sentience was not intended. They are currently sentient. It doesn't matter how they became what they are. 

[StellarMagic]

Rights of sapient life argument ahoy...

Also, I hate that no one knows the real definition of sentient, sapient, and semi-sentient.

Sapient: Possessing Wisdom (Human Like Intelligence)
Sentient:  Possessing Feelings (Dogs, cats, and higher order animals...)

Modifié par StellarMagic, 02 août 2011 - 09:24 .

[AngelicMachinery]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

@The Big Bad Wolf

I agree with you to a point. It was murder. Not intentional murder, but murder nonetheless. And whether it was a malfunction that led to their sentience or not, the Geth are currently sentient. People need to realize that, because when you say it was just a "malfunction", it seems like you are assuming that they are still following some predetermined programming. They are not.

The geth becoming sentient was a malfunction. That's what I mean.

And my point is, so what? Their sentience was not intended. They are currently sentient. It doesn't matter how they became what they are. 

And so what if they are sentient? What does that mean? That the quarians can't touch them, even though they are their creations?

So,  your saying if you SOMEHOW created a sentient organism capable of thought and able to question the soul you would be in the right too put a bullet in the head?  God complex much?

[l DryIce l]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

@The Big Bad Wolf

I agree with you to a point. It was murder. Not intentional murder, but murder nonetheless. And whether it was a malfunction that led to their sentience or not, the Geth are currently sentient. People need to realize that, because when you say it was just a "malfunction", it seems like you are assuming that they are still following some predetermined programming. They are not.

The geth becoming sentient was a malfunction. That's what I mean.

And my point is, so what? Their sentience was not intended. They are currently sentient. It doesn't matter how they became what they are. 

And so what if they are sentient? What does that mean? That the quarians can't touch them, even though they are their creations?

Now this is the real discussion. This is what we should be talking about. 

If they are sentient (self-aware, capable of thinking for themselves, independent), then they should be treated no differently than any other sentient race (asari, turians, humans, etc.) This does not mean the Quarians can't touch them. It simply means that they can't just be treated like a simple machine (e.g. cars, toasters). 

As for the second point. Should you be allowed to have absolute and indefinite control over something because you create it? I don't think so. 

[AngelicMachinery]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...
And so what if they are sentient? What does that mean? That the quarians can't touch them, even though they are their creations?

So,  your saying if you SOMEHOW created a sentient organism capable of thought and able to question the soul you would be in the right too put a bullet in the head?  God complex much?

We are talking about robots. Who cares about a bunch of robots? You kill a million of them, you can make a billion more.

Is this like the only sci-fi you've ever been introduced too?  You certainly don't seem like a fan of the genre as the divide between humananity and AI is something that is typically explored.  The fact that you can say "They are just robots" seems so very ignorant to me.  I mean we're just hamburger and bone what makes us special?

[l DryIce l]

StellarMagic wrote...

Rights of sapient life argument ahoy...

Also, I hate that no one knows the real definition of sentient, sapient, and semi-sentient.

Sapient: Possessing Wisdom (Human Like Intelligence)
Sentient:  Possessing Feelings (Dogs, cats, and higher order animals...)

Sentient:  the ability to feel, perceive or be conscious, or to have subjective experiences. 

We're using it right. 

[ObserverStatus]

C9316 wrote...
Only the heretics hate organics, but seeing as they are seemingly taken care off in ME2 they no longer matter. The true geth on the other have little to no hostility towards organics, and only wish to be left alone to their own devices.

Maybe they don't hate ALL organics, but a lot of them seem to think that the Quarians must die if they are to survive.

[l DryIce l]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...
And so what if they are sentient? What does that mean? That the quarians can't touch them, even though they are their creations?

So,  your saying if you SOMEHOW created a sentient organism capable of thought and able to question the soul you would be in the right too put a bullet in the head?  God complex much?

We are talking about robots. Who cares about a bunch of robots? You kill a million of them, you can make a billion more.

Robots as I know them are not sentient. They can't think on their own or come up with differing opinions. I could make the same ridiculous argument for humans.

*Sovereign and Harbinger having a discussion about morality*

We are talking about talking fleshy organics. Who cares about a bunch of organics? You kill a million of them, and we can wait for a billion more."

[l DryIce l]

bobobo878 wrote...

C9316 wrote...
Only the heretics hate organics, but seeing as they are seemingly taken care off in ME2 they no longer matter. The true geth on the other have little to no hostility towards organics, and only wish to be left alone to their own devices.

Maybe they don't hate ALL organics, but a lot of them seem to think that the Quarians must die if they are to survive.

You realize that the Geth form a consensus, right? There aren't Geth that think one thing, and other Geth that think something else. The Heretics are the only sentient synthetics that believe organics should die. The Geth are completely different. The Geth want to be on their own, away from any outside influence. 

[l DryIce l]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...
And so what if they are sentient? What does that mean? That the quarians can't touch them, even though they are their creations?

So,  your saying if you SOMEHOW created a sentient organism capable of thought and able to question the soul you would be in the right too put a bullet in the head?  God complex much?

We are talking about robots. Who cares about a bunch of robots? You kill a million of them, you can make a billion more.

Is this like the only sci-fi you've ever been introduced too?  You certainly don't seem like a fan of the genre as the divide between humananity and AI is something that is typically explored.  The fact that you can say "They are just robots" seems so very ignorant to me.  I mean we're just hamburger and bone what makes us special?

No, I just don't see giving robots the same rights and such as flesh and blood.

WHat makes us special? We are unique individuals, geth are not.

Unique individuals? Really? Have you seen us lately? Organics form groups all the time; it's how we live. Communities, nations, states. And if you think each person is really that unique from the next, I'd say you're fooling yourself. 

The Geth, much like us, form opinions. They think and take time to come to a consensus...much like human communties, states, nations, etc. The only difference, is that they do it much faster than us. U jelly?

Modifié par l DryIce l, 02 août 2011 - 09:43 .

[AngelicMachinery]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...
And so what if they are sentient? What does that mean? That the quarians can't touch them, even though they are their creations?

So,  your saying if you SOMEHOW created a sentient organism capable of thought and able to question the soul you would be in the right too put a bullet in the head?  God complex much?

We are talking about robots. Who cares about a bunch of robots? You kill a million of them, you can make a billion more.

Is this like the only sci-fi you've ever been introduced too?  You certainly don't seem like a fan of the genre as the divide between humananity and AI is something that is typically explored.  The fact that you can say "They are just robots" seems so very ignorant to me.  I mean we're just hamburger and bone what makes us special?

No, I just don't see giving robots the same rights and such as flesh and blood.

WHat makes us special? We are unique individuals, geth are not.

So I suppose you elimated to rachni because they were simply a hive organism with one queen in control of an army of drones.  Something doesn't have to be human like to be seen as "Special."  I feel that bioware dropped the ball here by making aliens simple reskins of humanity.  Soverign looked down upon flesh and blood species just as you are looking down on AI.

[l DryIce l]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

Robots as I know them are not sentient. They can't think on their own or come up with differing opinions. I could make the same ridiculous argument for humans.

*Sovereign and Harbinger having a discussion about morality*

We are talking about talking fleshy organics. Who cares about a bunch of organics? You kill a million of them, and we can wait for a billion more."

That's not the same thing, though. You kill a million humans, you lose all the experiences and such along with it. You kill a bunch of geth? All of that can be done again and again.

And that's wrong. You kill Geth, and the Geth lose perspective of that Geth platform. That isn't good for them. The only difference is that the experience isn't traumatic. They are emotionless. The Geth share experiences, just like us. They just share experience much faster than we do. 

[General User]

The term "isolationism" get thrown around alot these days.  It's worth bearing in mind that geth isolationism affects the entire galaxy, the Alliance in particular.

Not all forms of isolationism are created equal. Geth isolationism was a bad idea before Eden Prime. After, it became unacceptable. Indeed, one could very easily say that the Eden Prime War was the unintended consequence of the Council failing to engage the geth in a productive fashion (be that diplomatically or militarily). 

The Galactic Great Powers, the Alliance in particular, cannot in good conscience allow a return to the pre-Sovereign status quo. The geth have lost their right to isolation, they can either adapt and engage with the galactic community, or they can go to war to get their "right" to isolation back.

Modifié par General User, 02 août 2011 - 09:42 .

[l DryIce l]

General User wrote...

The term "isolationism" get thrown around alot these days.  It's worth bearing in mind that geth isolationism affects the entire galaxy, the Alliance in particular.

Not all forms of isolationism are created equal. Geth isolationism was a bad idea before Eden Prime. After, it became unacceptable. Indeed, one could very easily say that the Eden Prime War was the unintended consequence of the Council failing to engage the geth in a productive fashion (be that diplomatically or militarily). 

The Galactic Great Powers, the Alliance in particular, cannot in good conscience allow a return to the pre-Sovereign status quo. The geth have lost their right to isolation, they can either adapt and engage with the galactic community, or they can go to war to get their "right" to isolation back.

I agree, but I don't think anyone was arguing that Geth isolationism was a good thing for the galaxy. It's just their current stance, subject to change. 

[AngelicMachinery]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

So I suppose you elimated to rachni because they were simply a hive organism with one queen in control of an army of drones.  Something doesn't have to be human like to be seen as "Special."  I feel that bioware dropped the ball here by making aliens simple reskins of humanity.  Soverign looked down upon flesh and blood species just as you are looking down on AI.

I don't eliminate them as it wasn't really my choice to, as I didn't create them.

What?

[l DryIce l]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

So I suppose you elimated to rachni because they were simply a hive organism with one queen in control of an army of drones.  Something doesn't have to be human like to be seen as "Special."  I feel that bioware dropped the ball here by making aliens simple reskins of humanity.  Soverign looked down upon flesh and blood species just as you are looking down on AI.

I don't eliminate them as it wasn't really my choice to, as I didn't create them.

Who cares who created what? Why should that matter at all. If I create something, then yes, it's mine. However, if I create something sentient, then the rules change. What you're hinting at is an argument from authority, which is complete bs. 

[General User]

l DryIce l wrote...

General User wrote...

The term "isolationism" get thrown around alot these days.  It's worth bearing in mind that geth isolationism affects the entire galaxy, the Alliance in particular.

Not all forms of isolationism are created equal. Geth isolationism was a bad idea before Eden Prime. After, it became unacceptable. Indeed, one could very easily say that the Eden Prime War was the unintended consequence of the Council failing to engage the geth in a productive fashion (be that diplomatically or militarily). 

The Galactic Great Powers, the Alliance in particular, cannot in good conscience allow a return to the pre-Sovereign status quo. The geth have lost their right to isolation, they can either adapt and engage with the galactic community, or they can go to war to get their "right" to isolation back.

I agree, but I don't think anyone was arguing that Geth isolationism was a good thing for the galaxy. It's just their current stance, subject to change. 

Oh, I didn't think anyone was arguing that either.  My point was that if the geth don't change their stance on engaging with organics, another war is almost certain.  And it will be the geth's fault.

Modifié par General User, 02 août 2011 - 09:53 .

[AngelicMachinery]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

So I suppose you elimated to rachni because they were simply a hive organism with one queen in control of an army of drones.  Something doesn't have to be human like to be seen as "Special."  I feel that bioware dropped the ball here by making aliens simple reskins of humanity.  Soverign looked down upon flesh and blood species just as you are looking down on AI.

I don't eliminate them as it wasn't really my choice to, as I didn't create them.

What?

I'm talking about the rachni.

Just go read Do Androids Dreams of Electric Sheep... seriously.