483 réponses à ce sujet

[l DryIce l]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

So I suppose you elimated to rachni because they were simply a hive organism with one queen in control of an army of drones.  Something doesn't have to be human like to be seen as "Special."  I feel that bioware dropped the ball here by making aliens simple reskins of humanity.  Soverign looked down upon flesh and blood species just as you are looking down on AI.

I don't eliminate them as it wasn't really my choice to, as I didn't create them.

What?

I'm talking about the rachni.

Pssst. >> The Rachni were/are an alien race, just like the Turians, Asari, Krogan. No one created them. <<
But this is getting ot. 

[Kaiser_Wilhelm]

l DryIce l wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

@The Big Bad Wolf

I agree with you to a point. It was murder. Not intentional murder, but murder nonetheless. And whether it was a malfunction that led to their sentience or not, the Geth are currently sentient. People need to realize that, because when you say it was just a "malfunction", it seems like you are assuming that they are still following some predetermined programming. They are not.

The geth becoming sentient was a malfunction. That's what I mean.

And my point is, so what? Their sentience was not intended. They are currently sentient. It doesn't matter how they became what they are. 

When it comes down to it, sentient or not, they're just machines. I'd prefer the Quarians, an organic race, to prosper, rather than the Geth, machines. And do you think the Quarians deserve being kept from their homeworld? Why don't the Geth give peace a chance? Why don't they act diplomatically friendly to the Quarians?

Modifié par Kaiser_Wilhelm, 02 août 2011 - 09:55 .

[l DryIce l]

General User wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

General User wrote...

The term "isolationism" get thrown around alot these days.  It's worth bearing in mind that geth isolationism affects the entire galaxy, the Alliance in particular.

Not all forms of isolationism are created equal. Geth isolationism was a bad idea before Eden Prime. After, it became unacceptable. Indeed, one could very easily say that the Eden Prime War was the unintended consequence of the Council failing to engage the geth in a productive fashion (be that diplomatically or militarily). 

The Galactic Great Powers, the Alliance in particular, cannot in good conscience allow a return to the pre-Sovereign status quo. The geth have lost their right to isolation, they can either adapt and engage with the galactic community, or they can go to war to get their "right" to isolation back.

I agree, but I don't think anyone was arguing that Geth isolationism was a good thing for the galaxy. It's just their current stance, subject to change. 

Oh, I didn't think anyone was arguing that either.  My point was that if the geth don't change their stance on engaging with organics, another war is almost certain.  And it will be the geth's fault.

Yeah, I agree. Legion...so much could have been done. Maybe next  time Legion will speak up when surrounded by Quarians. 

[AngelicMachinery]

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

@The Big Bad Wolf

I agree with you to a point. It was murder. Not intentional murder, but murder nonetheless. And whether it was a malfunction that led to their sentience or not, the Geth are currently sentient. People need to realize that, because when you say it was just a "malfunction", it seems like you are assuming that they are still following some predetermined programming. They are not.

The geth becoming sentient was a malfunction. That's what I mean.

And my point is, so what? Their sentience was not intended. They are currently sentient. It doesn't matter how they became what they are. 

When it comes down to it, sentient or not, they're just machines. I'd prefer the Quarians, an organic race, to prosper, rather than the Geth, machines. And do you think the Quarians deserve being kept from their homeworld? Why don't the Geth give peace a chance? Why don't they act diplomatically friendly to the Quarians?

I can say I wouldn't be prone to peaceful dialogue with a group who attempted to wipe out all my people. 

Modifié par AngelicMachinery, 02 août 2011 - 09:59 .

[l DryIce l]

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

@The Big Bad Wolf

I agree with you to a point. It was murder. Not intentional murder, but murder nonetheless. And whether it was a malfunction that led to their sentience or not, the Geth are currently sentient. People need to realize that, because when you say it was just a "malfunction", it seems like you are assuming that they are still following some predetermined programming. They are not.

The geth becoming sentient was a malfunction. That's what I mean.

And my point is, so what? Their sentience was not intended. They are currently sentient. It doesn't matter how they became what they are. 

When it comes down to it, sentient or not, they're just machines. I'd prefer the Quarians, an organic race, to prosper, rather than the Geth, machines. And do you think the Quarians deserve being kept from their homeworld? Why don't the Geth give peace a chance? Why don't they act diplomatically friendly to the Quarians?

We are machines. Organic machines. 

And that point was addressed before, but I'll put the evidence here.

"When the creators have believed victory is possible, they have attacked us 100 percent of the time."

[PrinceLionheart]

If the two sides go for peace then good. If the Quarians demand going to war I'll let them, and it'll be their own fault when they're wiped out by the Geth.

[C9316]

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

@The Big Bad Wolf

I agree with you to a point. It was murder. Not intentional murder, but murder nonetheless. And whether it was a malfunction that led to their sentience or not, the Geth are currently sentient. People need to realize that, because when you say it was just a "malfunction", it seems like you are assuming that they are still following some predetermined programming. They are not.

The geth becoming sentient was a malfunction. That's what I mean.

And my point is, so what? Their sentience was not intended. They are currently sentient. It doesn't matter how they became what they are. 

When it comes down to it, sentient or not, they're just machines. I'd prefer the Quarians, an organic race, to prosper, rather than the Geth, machines. And do you think the Quarians deserve being kept from their homeworld? Why don't the Geth give peace a chance? Why don't they act diplomatically friendly to the Quarians?

Because they as a people are not 100% sure the quarians even want peace, and quarians like that one admiral who want to bring the geth back under their servitude and the ones who want to continue war with them aren't helping things.

[l DryIce l]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

So I suppose you elimated to rachni because they were simply a hive organism with one queen in control of an army of drones.  Something doesn't have to be human like to be seen as "Special."  I feel that bioware dropped the ball here by making aliens simple reskins of humanity.  Soverign looked down upon flesh and blood species just as you are looking down on AI.

I don't eliminate them as it wasn't really my choice to, as I didn't create them.

Who cares who created what? Why should that matter at all. If I create something, then yes, it's mine. However, if I create something sentient, then the rules change. What you're hinting at is an argument from authority, which is complete bs. 

If it's sentient, but not flesh and blood, in my opinion you can do whatever you want with it.

And I absolutely disagree. I think, as sentient beings, they have a huge amount of potential value being a part of the galactic community. How is peace with the Geth not preferable to war? 

Modifié par l DryIce l, 02 août 2011 - 10:08 .

[Jake71887]

C9316 wrote...

Because they as a people are not 100% sure the quarians even want peace, and quarians like that one admiral who want to bring the geth back under their servitude and the ones who want to continue war with them aren't helping things.

Daro'xen AKA Claudia Black AKA So Smexy I'd enslave the geth for 

[l DryIce l]

C9316 wrote...

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

@The Big Bad Wolf

I agree with you to a point. It was murder. Not intentional murder, but murder nonetheless. And whether it was a malfunction that led to their sentience or not, the Geth are currently sentient. People need to realize that, because when you say it was just a "malfunction", it seems like you are assuming that they are still following some predetermined programming. They are not.

The geth becoming sentient was a malfunction. That's what I mean.

And my point is, so what? Their sentience was not intended. They are currently sentient. It doesn't matter how they became what they are. 

When it comes down to it, sentient or not, they're just machines. I'd prefer the Quarians, an organic race, to prosper, rather than the Geth, machines. And do you think the Quarians deserve being kept from their homeworld? Why don't the Geth give peace a chance? Why don't they act diplomatically friendly to the Quarians?

Because they as a people are not 100% sure the quarians even want peace, and quarians like that one admiral who want to bring the geth back under their servitude and the ones who want to continue war with them aren't helping things.

Yes. I feel like posting this video a billion times, all over this thread. I just want to smother every single pro-war argument with this video. 

[Medhia Nox]

Legion is a new addition to the equation.

Before Legion - ALL Geth are violent to organic life.

We are told by Legion - that there are other Geth which are different.

Until we arrive at the Quarian homeworld and can prove this - I will not just take him at his word.

The machines have been studying organic life - in a conversation with EDI "LotSB" - Legion still considers himself superior to organics. EDI - notably - "almost" does not.

They could have determined that humans would react with curiosity - to everything. So - give them a Geth that appears more like them. An Infiltrator of the true sort.

Legion - and the Geth - may yet prove to be a danger (though I doubt it, this is a CRPG - it's not going to be a complex story - everything is likely face value)

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 02 août 2011 - 10:12 .

[l DryIce l]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...


And I absolutely disagree. I think, as sentient beings, they have a huge amount of potential value being a part of the galactic community. How is peace with the Geth not preferable to war? 

I also think peace with the geth is the best option for the quarians. Though I would support a Trojan Horse style plan to retake control of the geth.

You're weird, you know that? Just...just so...I don't even. 

[Ryzaki]

Eh I just want an option to be able to destroy either side completely.

Bye Quarians. I can't wait to kill you.

[AngelicMachinery]

Medhia Nox wrote...

The machines have been studying organic life - in a conversation with EDI "LotSB" - Legion still considers himself superior to organics. EDI - notably - "almost" does not.

 

Well it is somewhat true...

[Varus Praetor]

pablodurando wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

The quarians are the only side that has actively tried to reach out to their adversary and request peace. The geth have done nothing but kill anyone who comes near them.

Well I guess creating them as a slave race and then trying to exterminate them later doesn't qualify as reasons for the geth to fight back...

I guess this explains the whole Middle East issue.  Apparently all conflict is doomed to rage forever.  Should we expect the German counter attack any day now?

Sarcasm aside, the continuing conflict between the Geth and Quarians does seem foolish considering the Geth aren't even occupying the Homeworld.

[Ghost Warrior]

Damn this thread,every time I see the title I go "All we are saying...is give peace a chance" and now I can't get it out of my head.

[Ghost Warrior]

If it comes to choosing between quarians and the geth...bye bye quarians.

[Kaiser_Wilhelm]

l DryIce l wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

So I suppose you elimated to rachni because they were simply a hive organism with one queen in control of an army of drones.  Something doesn't have to be human like to be seen as "Special."  I feel that bioware dropped the ball here by making aliens simple reskins of humanity.  Soverign looked down upon flesh and blood species just as you are looking down on AI.

I don't eliminate them as it wasn't really my choice to, as I didn't create them.

Who cares who created what? Why should that matter at all. If I create something, then yes, it's mine. However, if I create something sentient, then the rules change. What you're hinting at is an argument from authority, which is complete bs. 

If it's sentient, but not flesh and blood, in my opinion you can do whatever you want with it.

And I absolutely disagree. I think, as sentient beings, they have a huge amount of potential value being a part of the galactic community. How is peace with the Geth not preferable to war? 

If the Geth are sentient and "like us", then there will obviously be warmongers and anti-organic sympathizers within their society. As the heretic groups show, if a major anti-organic following developed, it's likely it'd lead to war. True, the Geth aren't exactly the best of fighters, but their numerical and technological supremacy make them a real threat. It's likely if they continued to expand unchecked, someone, somewhere in their society would start telling the others that the Geth are superior to organics, and that the Geth can defeat the organics, and the Geth may very well follow. I doubt the Quarians would have any intention of starting a galactic empire and enslaving all organic life, but that's a possible intention of the Geth. If the Quarians went to war with the Geth, I'd definitely fight for the Quarians.

Modifié par Kaiser_Wilhelm, 03 août 2011 - 12:19 .

[Skirata129]

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

If the Geth are sentient and "like us", then there will obviously be warmongers and anti-organic sympathizers within their society. As the heretic groups show, if a major anti-organic following developed, it's likely it'd lead to war. True, the Geth aren't exactly the best of fighters, but their numerical and technological supremacy make them a real threat. It's likely if they continued to expand unchecked, someone, somewhere in their society would start telling the others that the Geth are superior to organics, and that the Geth can defeat the organics, and the Geth may very well follow. I doubt the Quarians would have any intention of starting a galactic empire and enslaving all organic life, but that's a possible intention of the Geth. If the Quarians went to war with the Geth, I'd definitely fight for the Quarians.

because you know, humans NEVER have wars start because one side considers itself racially superior to the other. oh... wait a second.

[Kaiser_Wilhelm]

Skirata129 wrote...

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

If the Geth are sentient and "like us", then there will obviously be warmongers and anti-organic sympathizers within their society. As the heretic groups show, if a major anti-organic following developed, it's likely it'd lead to war. True, the Geth aren't exactly the best of fighters, but their numerical and technological supremacy make them a real threat. It's likely if they continued to expand unchecked, someone, somewhere in their society would start telling the others that the Geth are superior to organics, and that the Geth can defeat the organics, and the Geth may very well follow. I doubt the Quarians would have any intention of starting a galactic empire and enslaving all organic life, but that's a possible intention of the Geth. If the Quarians went to war with the Geth, I'd definitely fight for the Quarians.

because you know, humans NEVER have wars start because one side considers itself racially superior to the other. oh... wait a second.

I'm not saying that, I'm saying this whole image of the Geth being 100% pacifistic isolationists is false. The heretics and their rise to prominence should be proof enough the Geth have a lot of potential for anti-organic sentiments.

[l DryIce l]

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

So I suppose you elimated to rachni because they were simply a hive organism with one queen in control of an army of drones.  Something doesn't have to be human like to be seen as "Special."  I feel that bioware dropped the ball here by making aliens simple reskins of humanity.  Soverign looked down upon flesh and blood species just as you are looking down on AI.

I don't eliminate them as it wasn't really my choice to, as I didn't create them.

Who cares who created what? Why should that matter at all. If I create something, then yes, it's mine. However, if I create something sentient, then the rules change. What you're hinting at is an argument from authority, which is complete bs. 

If it's sentient, but not flesh and blood, in my opinion you can do whatever you want with it.

And I absolutely disagree. I think, as sentient beings, they have a huge amount of potential value being a part of the galactic community. How is peace with the Geth not preferable to war? 

If the Geth are sentient and "like us", then there will obviously be warmongers and anti-organic sympathizers within their society. As the heretic groups show, if a major anti-organic following developed, it's likely it'd lead to war. True, the Geth aren't exactly the best of fighters, but their numerical and technological supremacy make them a real threat. It's likely if they continued to expand unchecked, someone, somewhere in their society would start telling the others that the Geth are superior to organics, and that the Geth can defeat the organics, and the Geth may very well follow. I doubt the Quarians would have any intention of starting a galactic empire and enslaving all organic life, but that's a possible intention of the Geth. If the Quarians went to war with the Geth, I'd definitely fight for the Quarians.

http://en.wikipedia....lope_as_fallacy