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[l DryIce l]

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

If the Geth are sentient and "like us", then there will obviously be warmongers and anti-organic sympathizers within their society. As the heretic groups show, if a major anti-organic following developed, it's likely it'd lead to war. True, the Geth aren't exactly the best of fighters, but their numerical and technological supremacy make them a real threat. It's likely if they continued to expand unchecked, someone, somewhere in their society would start telling the others that the Geth are superior to organics, and that the Geth can defeat the organics, and the Geth may very well follow. I doubt the Quarians would have any intention of starting a galactic empire and enslaving all organic life, but that's a possible intention of the Geth. If the Quarians went to war with the Geth, I'd definitely fight for the Quarians.

because you know, humans NEVER have wars start because one side considers itself racially superior to the other. oh... wait a second.

I'm not saying that, I'm saying this whole image of the Geth being 100% pacifistic isolationists is false. The heretics and their rise to prominence should be proof enough the Geth have a lot of potential for anti-organic sentiments.

Then they also have the exact same potential for pro-organic sentiments, just like any other race. This seems irrelevant to me. Why does it matter? Every race has the potential to be destructive. 

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

So I suppose you elimated to rachni because they were simply a hive organism with one queen in control of an army of drones.  Something doesn't have to be human like to be seen as "Special."  I feel that bioware dropped the ball here by making aliens simple reskins of humanity.  Soverign looked down upon flesh and blood species just as you are looking down on AI.

I don't eliminate them as it wasn't really my choice to, as I didn't create them.

Who cares who created what? Why should that matter at all. If I create something, then yes, it's mine. However, if I create something sentient, then the rules change. What you're hinting at is an argument from authority, which is complete bs. 

If it's sentient, but not flesh and blood, in my opinion you can do whatever you want with it.

And I absolutely disagree. I think, as sentient beings, they have a huge amount of potential value being a part of the galactic community. How is peace with the Geth not preferable to war? 

If the Geth are sentient and "like us", then there will obviously be warmongers and anti-organic sympathizers within their society. As the heretic groups show, if a major anti-organic following developed, it's likely it'd lead to war. True, the Geth aren't exactly the best of fighters, but their numerical and technological supremacy make them a real threat. It's likely if they continued to expand unchecked, someone, somewhere in their society would start telling the others that the Geth are superior to organics, and that the Geth can defeat the organics, and the Geth may very well follow. I doubt the Quarians would have any intention of starting a galactic empire and enslaving all organic life, but that's a possible intention of the Geth. If the Quarians went to war with the Geth, I'd definitely fight for the Quarians.

There's a problem with that and its Legion stating that the Getha re open to peace with the Quarians but only if they are sure the Quarians won't attack them. If the Geth are willing to forgive the people that tried to kill them and let them live in their space than I don't see them having any problem with any other specie as long as they don't attack the Geth.

They want to be left alone and they want to leave everyone else alone. I don't see any anit-organic faction coming up because they've already reached concensus about peace being an option with the one specie that have done them the most harm.

[l DryIce l]

@ISpeakTheTruth You speak the truth. I don't think we should focus on what may or may not happen in the future, or on what happened in the past. The only issue right now is whether the Quarians should attempt peace or go to war. The only reasonable option, to me, seems to be peace. The people who are favoring war are doing so because they want revenge.

[Medhia Nox]

@AngelicMachinery: Superior in what way?

I do not believe that a creation can be greater than its creator - and I mean that in a purely secular way. I believe that the path inevitably is one of diminishing returns.

===

I still assert that - besides Legion - we have no proof "yet" of the Geth's sincerity.

Cautiously optimistic - sure - but until I see some more proof, I don't trust logic engines with guns.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

@Medhi Nox The Geth are superior because they beat the Quarians on their own planets. They're supperior now in terms of not only numbers but in technology and they are superior in their ability to forgive and move on beyond the Morning War. The Geth are willing to forgive thema nd have peace. So far only one Quarian in two games is willing to have peace. That's a few ways that they are superior.

As for you no creation can be greater than its creator... so are our children always less then us? A we less than our parents and they less then there's?

[AngelicMachinery]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@AngelicMachinery: Superior in what way?

I do not believe that a creation can be greater than its creator - and I mean that in a purely secular way. I believe that the path inevitably is one of diminishing returns.

===

I still assert that - besides Legion - we have no proof "yet" of the Geth's sincerity.

Cautiously optimistic - sure - but until I see some more proof, I don't trust logic engines with guns.

I am a bit of a transhumanist when it comes down to it.  There is a part of me that in fact thinks that mechanical evolution offers more than what biology has to offer.  The fleshy form can only offer so much, but,  with technology one can transcend so many levels that weree before seen as nothing more than magic/hocus pocus/ or what have you.

[ThePwener]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I do not believe that a creation can be greater than its creator

God > Universe = God is better, he can make universes. Universes don't make universes.

Quarian > Geth = Geth better. They don't eat or sleep, only work and produce. They can also make more Geth.

See how complex the issue is?

[ThePwener]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

I am a bit of a transhumanist when it comes down to it.  There is a part of me that in fact thinks that mechanical evolution offers more than what biology has to offer.  The fleshy form can only offer so much, but,  with technology one can transcend so many levels that weree before seen as nothing more than magic/hocus pocus/ or what have you.

All hail Skynet!

[AngelicMachinery]

ThePwener wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

I am a bit of a transhumanist when it comes down to it.  There is a part of me that in fact thinks that mechanical evolution offers more than what biology has to offer.  The fleshy form can only offer so much, but,  with technology one can transcend so many levels that weree before seen as nothing more than magic/hocus pocus/ or what have you.

All hail Skynet!

Silly person,  skynet may in fact be a deity,  but,  point in fact it's motivations are nothing more than a childhood fantasy.

[Sepewrath]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

@Medhi Nox The Geth are superior because they beat the Quarians on their own planets. They're supperior now in terms of not only numbers but in technology and they are superior in their ability to forgive and move on beyond the Morning War. The Geth are willing to forgive thema nd have peace. So far only one Quarian in two games is willing to have peace. That's a few ways that they are superior.

As for you no creation can be greater than its creator... so are our children always less then us? A we less than our parents and they less then there's?

lol that's not exactly the same, you don't craft your children out of plastic and circuit boards, you facilitate their creation you don't actually make them. And the Geth were willing to have peace, but they were also content to just sit behind the Veil and not telling anyone, so lets not go giving them a Noble Peace Prize just yet.

[ThePwener]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Silly person,  skynet may in fact be a deity,  but,  point in fact it's motivations are nothing more than a childhood fantasy.

Too bad "artificial intelligence" is as real as "evolution" and my favorite, "Big Bang". Oh the lulz on behalf the silly atheists/idiots.

I believe that one day, humanity will achieve teleportation (it's in the bible!), but no, no robot BFF.

[AngelicMachinery]

ThePwener wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Silly person,  skynet may in fact be a deity,  but,  point in fact it's motivations are nothing more than a childhood fantasy.

Too bad "artificial intelligence" is as real as "evolution" and my favorite, "Big Bang". Oh the lulz on behalf the silly atheists/idiots.

I believe that one day, humanity will achieve teleportation (it's in the bible!), but no, no robot BFF.

Oh you,  if you believe in a god you have to admit we are nothing more than a deity's tinkering.  We are nothing more than machines of  meat and bone granted some semblance of what they believe as selfdom...  or the equivalent of reality TV.

[ThePwener]

Sepewrath wrote...

And the Geth were willing to have peace, but they were also content to just sit behind the Veil and not telling anyone, so lets not go giving them a Noble Peace Prize just yet.

"Hey, I know our existance is illegal and all, but we, the Geth, want to integrate with the galactic society. Wait, what's the gun for....."

Yeah, they isolated themselves to avoid trouble. Obama keeps the troops in Iraq to look for gold, oil and treasure and he gets the damn trophy. Funny how reality works.

[ThePwener]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Oh you,  if you believe in a god you have to admit we are nothing more than a deity's tinkering.  We are nothing more than machines of  meat and bone granted some semblance of what they believe as selfdom...  or the equivalent of reality TV.

Silly you, pretending to know the machinations of the most powerful being to ever exist. Hehehe.....

As for reality tv.... blame the angels. All they do is accounting on our behalf. We're like Humanity 90210 to them. True story.

[Medhia Nox]

@AngelicMachinery: I see.

====

@ISpeakTheTruth: Biology creates more humans (or rather, allows humans to be created at all). The act of copulation is a biological imperative. Biology > your child.

====

@ThePwener: You don't think they've traded some advantages for some disadvantages?

Legion is the only example of a Geth that breaks any mold other than "Mindless - hive mind - robot." We're not even sure he doesn't have a hive mind (we know he has a "group" mind of sorts) - but we can be reasonably sure that it is more dynamic than the previous Geth we've encountered.

I could throw in - solar flares and electrical storms could kill Geth. ((we are not told they have magical protection - but we do know our current electronics can be devastated in this manner))

Biological ecosystems would wear away at Geth body forms - while "dead" worlds and space would preserve them. ((Which "might" be why they don't live on the planet.)) Water in particular would be unfriendly to Geth for a variety of reasons.

Geth can be hacked - etc. etc.

There are rebuttals to be sure - but I'm really not trying to make a deep argument one way or the other.

====

At any rate - it's just an opinion folks - I'm not here to spread some ideology. And if that stuff about god and bibles and whatever is aimed at me - "God" was not the "Creator" I was talking about. I did mention "secular" - but I suppose it might have been missed. ((Or, those comments were not directed at what I was trying to say.))

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 03 août 2011 - 04:22 .

[Sepewrath]

Yeah its a far better option to let the Heretics who attacked the Citadel represent their species, that will go over well, it certainly wont lead the organic races to completely wipe them out at some point, because they think their all hostile. And they wonder why the Quarians are thinking about war and why everyone else shoots on sight. And lets be honest, they may be able to beat the Quarians, but the Alliance would stomp them flat as would the Turians a combination would be a slaughter.

[ThePwener]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@ThePwener: You don't think they've traded some advantages for some disadvantages?

Legion is the only example of a Geth that breaks any mold other than "Mindless - hive mind - robot." We're not even sure he doesn't have a hive mind (we know he has a "group" mind of sorts) - but we can be reasonably sure that it is more dynamic than the previous Geth we've encountered.

Did you talk to him.... at all? The only special thing he has all of his programs stored in one unit, unlike a few programs per unit. Other then that, he's just like the rest. Actually, the Geth are all the same. Like asian people and Germans... meet one, you met them all.

[AngelicMachinery]

Medhia Nox wrote...



Legion is the only example of a Geth that breaks any mold other than "Mindless - hive mind - robot." We're not even sure he doesn't have a hive mind (we know he has a "group" mind of sorts) - but we can be reasonably sure that it is more dynamic than the previous Geth we've encountered.

I could throw in - solar flares and electrical storms could kill Geth. ((we are not told they have magical protection - but we do know our current electronics can be devastated in this manner))

Biological ecosystems would wear away at Geth body forms - while "dead" worlds and space would preserve them. ((Which "might" be why they don't live on the planet.)) Water in particular would be unfriendly to Geth for a variety of reasons.

Geth can be hacked - etc. etc.

Biological life forms can be destoryed by diesase,  mental imbalances,  or any number of things,  hell ME even opens up indoctorination,  Which just so happens to be the reapers hacking meat puppets (I heart GitS)  Each type of species has weakness.  Both of which are very easy to exploit.

[Medhia Nox]

Ugh - snide comments.

It's late - I wasn't trying to start or win an argument here.

[ThePwener]

Sepewrath wrote...

Yeah its a far better option to let the Heretics who attacked the Citadel represent their species, that will go over well, it certainly wont lead the organic races to completely wipe them out at some point, because they think their all hostile. And they wonder why the Quarians are thinking about war and why everyone else shoots on sight. And lets be honest, they may be able to beat the Quarians, but the Alliance would stomp them flat as would the Turians a combination would be a slaughter.

So for 400 years the Geth have been building stations.... ships.... more Geth... more ships.... weapons.... technological advancement..... even more Geth..... all without any kind of interference from ANYONE, not even themselves until Nazara cam strolling along, and only took less then 5% of the Geth (which were A LOT by ME1's standards) and you think the Alliance + Turians can beat them? Sure, why not.

Modifié par ThePwener, 03 août 2011 - 04:29 .

[AngelicMachinery]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Ugh - snide comments.

It's late - I wasn't trying to start or win an argument here.

Oh it's an argument that would NEVER be won.  I just think that your arguments for mechanical weakness can easily be turned around as well.

[Medhia Nox]

I didn't mean you when I said that AngelicMachinery - you were stating your opinions which I was interested in hearing.

Again - not trying to prove you wrong, I find you to be one of the more reasonable people on here. In fact I'd be interested to know your opinions on that topic.

[ThePwener]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Her way is the best way.

Her way is going to get you all killed. Want to control them? Play Overlord on renegade. FIN

[AngelicMachinery]

Saphra Deden wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

@ISpeakTheTruth You speak the truth. I don't think we should focus on what may or may not happen in the future, or on what happened in the past. The only issue right now is whether the Quarians should attempt peace or go to war. The only reasonable option, to me, seems to be peace. The people who are favoring war are doing so because they want revenge.

Daro'Xen offers a bloodless means of pacifying the geth and reclaiming the home world free of any lingering mistrust for either side once the goal is accomplished.

Her way is the best way.

Xen only offers slavery,  if it so happens that she is the only solution to the problem I say it's time too either turn the qurians into hard labor or sabotage their cute little floatilla.