483 réponses à ce sujet

[Sepewrath]

ThePwener wrote...
So for 400 years the Geth have been building stations.... ships.... more Geth... more ships.... weapons.... technological advancement..... even more Geth..... all without any kind of interference from ANYONE, not even themselves until Nazara cam strolling along, and only took less then 5% of the Geth (which were A LOT by ME1's standards) and you think the Alliance + Turians can beat them? Sure, why not.

And what happened? Even with a Reaper with them they got crushed. Also people put way too much emphasis on that 5% its not like its one Geth per body, I'm sure it takes a lot of programs to power those ships and all. But the real kicker is this, if there's one thing humanity is good at, its warfare and its highly doubtful that the Geth could match human igenuity when it comes to warfare.

Any weapons advantage they have would quickly be closed, if they think those space stations are safe, they would get destroyed without question. Then toss in the Turians and their bomb happy ways, they would probably destroy Rannoch along with the Geth so yes, the Geth would have no chance. It would be in their best interest to make more of an effort to make peace.

[xXljoshlXx]

Saphra Deden wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

@ISpeakTheTruth You speak the truth. I don't think we should focus on what may or may not happen in the future, or on what happened in the past. The only issue right now is whether the Quarians should attempt peace or go to war. The only reasonable option, to me, seems to be peace. The people who are favoring war are doing so because they want revenge.

Daro'Xen offers a bloodless means of pacifying the geth and reclaiming the home world free of any lingering mistrust for either side once the goal is accomplished.

Her way is the best way.

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it 

[AngelicMachinery]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I didn't mean you when I said that AngelicMachinery - you were stating your opinions which I was interested in hearing.

Again - not trying to prove you wrong, I find you to be one of the more reasonable people on here. In fact I'd be interested to know your opinions on that topic.

Oh I see,  I'm jumping to conclusions again.  I am a tad bit tipsy it seems.

[ThePwener]

Sepewrath wrote...

And what happened? Even with a Reaper with them they got crushed. Also people put way too much emphasis on that 5% its not like its one Geth per body, I'm sure it takes a lot of programs to power those ships and all. But the real kicker is this, if there's one thing humanity is good at, its warfare and its highly doubtful that the Geth could match human igenuity when it comes to warfare.

Any weapons advantage they have would quickly be closed, if they think those space stations are safe, they would get destroyed without question. Then toss in the Turians and their bomb happy ways, they would probably destroy Rannoch along with the Geth so yes, the Geth would have no chance. It would be in their best interest to make more of an effort to make peace.

Funny, because according to the ME2 manual, Heat Sinks were made after the Alliance studied Geth weaponry after the Battle of the Citadel and found they're weapons used them, so to match Geth weaponry and increase combat effectiveness, they copied them.

And ME1 says that the only thing Humanity brought new to warfare was Fighter carriers. Wow, how incredibly devastating.

[ThePwener]

fibchopkin wrote...

Worked against the Turians.

They'd deny it though. Fascist pricks.

Modifié par ThePwener, 03 août 2011 - 04:53 .

[StellarMagic]

Yeah... the two most significant innovations in modern warfare in ME2 are either a Geth creation (Thermal Clips) or a Human innovation (Medi-gel).

[GodWood]

l DryIce l wrote...

GodWood wrote...
Your point does not matter.
The quarians who are guilty of genocide are dead, the geth however are not.
They still need to be punished.

That's ridiculous. Why do they need to be punished? They are not organics. They don't feel emotion (which is the very thing that's driving your desire for revenge/punishment).

So long as you consider the geth 'sapient' they are responsible for their actions.
So if the geth commit mass genocide (which they did) they must be punished for their actions.

I seriously have no idea why this is such an outlandish idea for you.

You guys have once again brought up a problem that happened in the past. Both sides were clearly at fault. I must ask, yet again, how this issue is relevant to the current problem we have? Revenge (aka, "they need to be punished") is the only reason I've seen, and a bad one at that. It's downright barbarism.

Person A commits genocide.
Person B wishes to have him punished.

Person B is barbaric?

If the Quarians did want revenge, they'd risk a huge amount of lives and the chance that they might not get it. How is this in any way preferable to peace?

If we Xen them (that is revert them back to simple machinery) we lose minimal lives and have an army of expendable robots at our desposal.
Plus there's the whole geth answering for their crimes thing.

It's win win!

[Homebound]

funny thing about medi-gel, isnt the tech on medi-gel considered illegal? Like, it's technically alive or something. or am i thinking omni-gel?

[Homebound]

i think both sides have wronged one another, but its come to the point where both sides are fighting because the other side is fighting.

Its time for peacetalks. According to Legion, the true-geth wish for peace. Unfortunately, the quarian admiralty board hasnt reached concensus yet on if they would rather keep fighting or not.

too bad we cant have legion tell them that the true-geth are willing to give them rannoch back. it might open the door for progress.

[Ryzaki]

Why on earth should either side answer for crimes committed centuries ago by beings that no longer exist?

Just propagating stupidity.

[GodWood]

Ryzaki wrote...
Why on earth should either side answer for crimes committed centuries ago by beings that no longer exist?

Just propagating stupidity.

A common mistake.
Yes the quarians who were involved in the first contact war are dead.
The geth however are not.

Geth do not have lives, generations etc in the same ways as organics.
It's all the one entity. Meaning the geth who commit genocide 300 years ago are the same geth of today - just with new platforms and more memories.

I'm thinking people not knowing this is a reason for the overwhelming amount of geth sympathy.

[MadCat221]

xXljoshlXx wrote...

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it 

And those who disregard history are doomed to outdo it.

[Goneaviking]

S.A.K wrote...

Quarians "hating" the geth is justifiable. Quarians made the geth in the first place and the geth killed the quarians almost to extinction. If the geth only attacked the quarian military for trying to kill then, that would have been undestandable. But there is no excuse for killing billions of civilians. I do support the peace between the two. But if I have to take sides I will pick the quarians.

I wasn't under the impression that it was just the military trying to deactivate the pre-geth machines. If the geth reacted violently in their self-defence they would have attacked anyone threatening them regardless of whether they wore a uniform. This early in their evolution it's doubtful they even had a concept of civilian, the question that provoked the pre-emptive attempt to destroy them suggest that they were still trying to figure out who/what they were and in what ways they were different from their masters, if all of them were valid targets there would be no reason they'd make distinctions among their enemies.

Which is a fairly pointless discussion I'll admit. A more important argument would be one to establish how long it was reasonable to hold the grudge. 300 years after the war it's hard to argue convincingly that the geth are responsible for the quarrians continued sufferings. They haven't pursued them and attempted to kill them. They haven't interferred to stop them settling a new world. Have not intervened to prevent other races from offering them assistance or helping them to resettle the way that the hanar have for the drell.

By contrast, the quarrians exemplified by Tali, appear to have no interest in resettling and look set to start a war they have no chance at winning to re-take territory that the geth have no interest in holding.

Until Legion joined the crew of the Normandy it was a valid argument that the geth couldn't be negotiated with, but his presence outside the veil has changed the dynamics considerably. If the quarrians want a peaceful resolution there's an opening for it for the first time in centuries, if not, well they'll make for an interesting footnote in the history books.

[Dariustwinblade]

Wait so the geth is responsible for me having to RELOAD MY WIDOW. They are getting exterminated.

[General User]

I think that being willing to talk is the first step towards peace in the quarian/geth conflict in much the same way getting in your car is the first step in driving from Miami to Anchorage.

Speaking for myself I favor peace, I'm just not convinced that peace is a realistic option.

[Comsky159]

If human beings for instance were driven off the earth by self-aware apple products, forced to subsist in cramped slums on the deck on some unreliable creaking ship and destined to wear a suit in public for risk of infection I'd sure as hell want to take back the earth by any means necessary.

I think it's natural to hold a grudge for a long time in this case. Just have to empathise a little. And after the empathising is done, cap some b*tchez and boycott apple products.

Modifié par Comsky159, 03 août 2011 - 12:10 .

[Homebound]

Godwood wrote...

Yes the quarians who were involved in the first contact war are dead.
The geth however are not.

Geth do not have lives, generations etc in the same ways as organics.
It's all the one entity. Meaning the geth who commit genocide 300 years ago are the same geth of today - just with new platforms and more memories.

I'm thinking people not knowing this is a reason for the overwhelming amount of geth sympathy.

blew my mind. I wont even..but like i said before. someone's gotta break the circle.
seriously, the only reason the two sides are fighting is because they are fighting. the geth want to give rannoch back, the quarians dont want to enslave them let alone have their fingerprints on AI. WHERE IS THE PROBLEM?
aside from Xen and Tali's dad, the quarians want to gtf away from AI tech. theres no reason for them to fight anymore.

[General User]

Hellbound555 wrote...
blew my mind. I wont even..but like i said before. someone's gotta break the circle.

You're part right. The conflict needs to be resolved, but that's a great deal more complicated that simply deciding to stop fighting.

Hellbound555 wrote...
seriously, the only reason the two sides are fighting is because they are fighting. the geth want to give rannoch back, the quarians dont want to enslave them let alone have their fingerprints on AI. WHERE IS THE PROBLEM?

The problem is that trading ownership of Rannoch and exchanging mutual promises of goodwill are nowhere near enough to ensure a lasting peace.

Hellbound555 wrote...
aside from Xen and Tali's dad, the quarians want to gtf away from AI tech. theres no reason for them to fight anymore.

There was never any real reason for the quarians to attack the geth. Nor was there any real reason for the geth to exterminate the quarian population on their various worlds. To misquote Jack, "Reason's got nothin' to do with it."

The tragic irony is that the subsequent centuries of mutual atrocity have given the geth and quarians far better reason to be enemies now than they ever had during the Morning War.

[l DryIce l]

GodWood wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

GodWood wrote...
Your point does not matter.
The quarians who are guilty of genocide are dead, the geth however are not.
They still need to be punished.

That's ridiculous. Why do they need to be punished? They are not organics. They don't feel emotion (which is the very thing that's driving your desire for revenge/punishment).

So long as you consider the geth 'sapient' they are responsible for their actions.
So if the geth commit mass genocide (which they did) they must be punished for their actions.

I seriously have no idea why this is such an outlandish idea for you.

You guys have once again brought up a problem that happened in the past. Both sides were clearly at fault. I must ask, yet again, how this issue is relevant to the current problem we have? Revenge (aka, "they need to be punished") is the only reason I've seen, and a bad one at that. It's downright barbarism.

Person A commits genocide.
Person B wishes to have him punished.

Person B is barbaric?

If the Quarians did want revenge, they'd risk a huge amount of lives and the chance that they might not get it. How is this in any way preferable to peace?

If we Xen them (that is revert them back to simple machinery) we lose minimal lives and have an army of expendable robots at our desposal.
Plus there's the whole geth answering for their crimes thing.

It's win win!

You act as if the Geth were entirely at fault for their actions. Both parties were at fault. The Quarians attempted to destroy them. Destroy them. Should the sentient Geth have just rolled over and let them do it? They were retaliating, simple as that. Just because the Geth happened to be victorious doesn't mean they should be punished. Had the Quarians won, would we be punishing them for destroying a sentient race? Of course not. Why would we? It was a war that both the Quarians and the Geth made unethical decisions in. 


"We did not seek hostilities with creators. We fought for continued existence."

I see no use in punishing the Geth, when they are open to peace. Just tell me, what actual use would punishment serve? 

What Xen wants is to control a sentient race and strip them of their sentience. That's sick. Completely unethical. Cruel and unusual punishment. And how could you say that would cost "minimal lives". Do you think the Geth with just let the Quarians enslave them? Peace is the only option that will save the most lives. 

Modifié par l DryIce l, 03 août 2011 - 05:12 .

[Omega Torsk]

It's really difficult to support the Geth. If it wasn't for Legion, they would still be the paranoid, genocidal boogeymen on the other side of the Perseus Veil (who now also have the credit of attempting to wipe out the Citadel government). Any attempts at peace have failed (it's actually the Geth who just won't give peace a chance, the Quarians have tried). They aren't using Rannoch for anything (they live in space stations surrounding it). It's almost like they're holding it in front of the Quarians' faces and saying "Oh, oh, you want it? You want it? Well, **** you, you can't have it." I agree with whoever said it stopped being self-defense when the Geth wiped out billions of Quarians, then it became genocide. Peace would be nice, but the Geth are unpredictable. But who knows? Maybe the writers will surprise us...

[l DryIce l]

Omega Torsk wrote...

It's really difficult to support the Geth. If it wasn't for Legion, they would still be the paranoid, genocidal boogeymen on the other side of the Perseus Veil (who now also have the credit of attempting to wipe out the Citadel government). Any attempts at peace have failed (it's actually the Geth who just won't give peace a chance, the Quarians have tried). They aren't using Rannoch for anything (they live in space stations surrounding it). It's almost like they're holding it in front of the Quarians' faces and saying "Oh, oh, you want it? You want it? Well, **** you, you can't have it." I agree with whoever said it stopped being self-defense when the Geth wiped out billions of Quarians, then it became genocide. Peace would be nice, but the Geth are unpredictable. But who knows? Maybe the writers will surprise us...

"It is also implied by Legion that the geth feel a sort of remorse for killing so many quarians and display this by looking after the quarians' buildings, as though it were a cemetery."

The Geth won't give peace a chance? Really now?

Modifié par l DryIce l, 03 août 2011 - 07:14 .

[Soccer FeverMan]

Hellbound555 wrote...

funny thing about medi-gel, isnt the tech on medi-gel considered illegal? Like, it's technically alive or something. or am i thinking omni-gel?

Nah it's not alive it has something to do with changing the genetiics of a species.  


http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Medi-gel

[Jedi Master of Orion]

From what I gather the geth are isolationist at the moment. So I would imagine it was The Heretics who destroy every effort to investigate the Perseus Veil. Legion seems to imply they are essentially neutral on the subject of peace with the quarians. They don't seem to have any real malice towards the other organic races but don't seem to think they are worth contacting either. I imagine it's because they admit they still don't really understand organic life.The Quarians have attacked the Geth at every opportunity. And while I can't really blame them, it is them who are less open to peace than the Geth.