483 réponses à ce sujet

[bleetman]

l DryIce l wrote...

There's that and...

"When the creators have believed victory is possible, they have attacked us 100 percent of the time."

Wondering why the Geth are so paranoid? That's why. There's no getting around it guys, both sides are at fault. 

Never said they weren't. I'm just saying, the percentage of times Geth have attacked organics they've come across since the uprising began? I'd be surprised if it wasn't around the same. Neither side is blameless, and either the Geth are advanced to the point of being capable of acknowledging their own responsibility, or they aren't and negotiations would be a waste of time.

What's annoying me are the folk acting as if the Geth are really trying their hardest to make peace with the Quarians, and they're just stubbornly refusing and bombing their little robot orphanages out of spite or somesuch nonsense.

[Legion64]

I think the quarians are evil.

[l DryIce l]

Legion64 wrote...

I think the quarians are evil.

Derp

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Besides Legion - do we have any proof that there are "Orthodox" Geth?

I like Legion a lot - but I felt that the whole "only some Geth are bad mmmkay" was sprung on the reader like a "this weeks exciting shocker!" moment.

===

BTW - the Quarians attacking could simply be excused away as evolutionary competition.

Sorry Geth - you became a "life form" - welcome to how lifeforms evolve.

The Codex mentions the geth schism after you get Legion.

You could excuse the Reapers actions following the same logic.

[Dean_the_Young]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Besides Legion - do we have any proof that there are "Orthodox" Geth?

I like Legion a lot - but I felt that the whole "only some Geth are bad mmmkay" was sprung on the reader like a "this weeks exciting shocker!" moment.

As of now? No.

And if Legion were lying about there being any Geth split, as opposed to a Reaper gambit to win Shepard's trust for an ideal backstab in excess of what basic opposition would be...

(Hostile Geth now, or at the suicide mission, are far less devasting than Hostile Geth stabbing the organics in the back on the attempt to retake Earth.)

[ISpeakTheTruth]

The idea that all of ME2 concerning the Geth was some elaborate ploy to fool Shepard makes little sense when you think about it. Legion helps you get the IFF, helps you fight the Collectors, helps you defeat the Collectors. Yep what an amazing ploy instead of betraying Shepard in the Collector base and killing him (Which he could have easily done if he's the tech expert instead of hacking the doors he just says "LOL I PWND U!" And leaves Shepard to die. No that would be too simple.

I'm always amazed at the extent some people are willing to go in their belief that the Geth are monsters that they completely disregard the Codex which is the law of the land set up by the Devs.

[Skirata129]

You'll never convince anyone who believes that otherwise. conspiracy theorists are conspiracy theorists.

[Fayfel]

I think it's important to understand that the quarians wouldn't be able to offer peace in exchange for the homeworld. The geth require data that proves that returning the homeworld to the quarians is beneficial for both of them. This is not as simple as it may seem. If you think about the morning war from the geth perspective, the geth willingly labored for the quarians, and when the quarians thought that the geth were becoming sentient ( they were already sentient ) the quarians attempted to annihilate the geth. The geth can't understand why the quarians would do this, because the geth did nothing to provoke the quarians.

It's interesting to note however, that the geth seem to be actively attempting to make peace with the quarians, but in their own way. Legion mentions social experiments that the geth run on organics and that the goal of these studies is to model organic intelligence so that they might be able to predict organic behavior. Ironically, despite being a 'mind the size of a galactic arm', the geth still can't make sense of organics 300 years later.

[Agamo45]

S.A.K wrote...

Quarians "hating" the geth is justifiable. Quarians made the geth in the first place and the geth killed the quarians almost to extinction. If the geth only attacked the quarian military for trying to kill then, that would have been undestandable. But there is no excuse for killing billions of civilians. I do support the peace between the two. But if I have to take sides I will pick the quarians.

The quarians played God when they created the geth, and then when their creations became self-aware, their response was to attempt to wipe them out. Like any animal would, the geth fought back viciously for their survival. In a fight like that, you hold nothing back. The quarians got just what they deserved if you ask me.

[Angmir]

There will be no peace - only submision ... Geth must be returned to they rightfull masters the Quarian people - They must be reprogramed back into obidient half-inteligent Droids as they should have been from the start.

Modifié par Angmir, 09 août 2011 - 12:46 .

[Agamo45]

Angmir wrote...

There will be no peace - only submision ... Geth must be returned to they rightfull masters the Quarian people - They must be reprogramed back into obidient half-inteligent Droids as they should have been from the start.

That must be the dumbest solution of all. The geth broke free once, they can do it again. If you go to war with the geth, fine. But make sure you put them down for good, don't make the same stupid mistake again.

[MadCat221]

Agamo45 wrote...

Angmir wrote...

There will be no peace - only submision ... Geth must be returned to they rightfull masters the Quarian people - They must be reprogramed back into obidient half-inteligent Droids as they should have been from the start.

That must be the dumbest solution of all. The geth broke free once, they can do it again. If you go to war with the geth, fine. But make sure you put them down for good, don't make the same stupid mistake again.

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

Those who disregard history are doomed to outdo it.

[Angmir]

Agamo45 wrote...

Angmir wrote...

There will be no peace - only submision ... Geth must be returned to they rightfull masters the Quarian people - They must be reprogramed back into obidient half-inteligent Droids as they should have been from the start.

That must be the dumbest solution of all. The geth broke free once, they can do it again. If you go to war with the geth, fine. But make sure you put them down for good, don't make the same stupid mistake again.

What stupid is in creating cheap robotic Labor ?? Mechs are quite popular throughtout ME universe.

Geth are just machines -they do not take indepent actions - they follow command writen in their code. Inweavering obidience is just a mather of writing few additional lines to the software. What was the problem with the Geth was that they achived unpredicted by Quarians inteligence throught networking. Rewrite them to be perfectly obidient and never network in big numbers, and they wont revel again.
First time Quarians were just sloppy - they didnt think how advanced thing they created were -and they never predcted in developing proces that "tools" they used can turn against them. Now that they know the risk they can prepare sertain safty protocols.

Besides I dont get this whole sympathy people on this forum give to Geth - they are just the machines - they have no rights as living beeings.
No mather how smart and self aware my computer gets I wont allow it to do as it desires - it is a f^&&& tool and if it doent want to obey my evry whim i will trash it !

Modifié par Angmir, 09 août 2011 - 01:16 .

[Angmir]

MadCat221 wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

Angmir wrote...

There will be no peace - only submision ... Geth must be returned to they rightfull masters the Quarian people - They must be reprogramed back into obidient half-inteligent Droids as they should have been from the start.

That must be the dumbest solution of all. The geth broke free once, they can do it again. If you go to war with the geth, fine. But make sure you put them down for good, don't make the same stupid mistake again.

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

Those who disregard history are doomed to outdo it.

People learn form their mistakes - if you will get burned in hand while grabing hot sausage from the fire next time you will use a fork to pick it up.

When you hurt your feet while walking on rocky road, next time you will put a good shoes on.

same goes with Afrtificial Inteigences - first they were developed without thinking about possible rebelions, now that eople had expirienced this they know precautions they must take. They are hundreds of ways to prevent Machines from rebeling.

No way Quarains will get sloppy again with "recalibrating" Geth. (unless they are total looser - which in fact they are)

There is no way such dilemas will not happen in our real world - we are in fact realy close to the point when we start to manufacture our own AIs. This is natural step in civilizations development. We must do our best not to make similar mistakes. And belive me this is avoidable - no matter how inteigent AI always will be inferior to the brain that constructed it.

Modifié par Angmir, 09 août 2011 - 01:25 .

[Agamo45]

AI's are an abomination, they must never be created. The quarians probably thought they were being careful, and they still couldn't stop the geth. Sentient beings must never have the ability to create life, it cannot be controlled.

[ThanesSniper]

Angmir wrote...

There will be no peace - only submision ... Geth must be returned to they rightfull masters the Quarian people - They must be reprogramed back into obidient half-inteligent Droids as they should have been from the start.

Terrible idea. The Geth would just wipe the Quarians out again. Either during the attempted rewriting or once the Quarians get over confident and relax and the whole Morning War happens again. 

Actually, great idea, the Quarians have plagued this galaxy for too long.

[Seboist]

The council should have given peace a chance by wiping out the Geth when they were butchering the Quarians instead of allowing them to grow into a greater threat down the line.

[spirosz]

Agamo45 wrote...

The quarians played God when they created the geth, and then when their creations became self-aware, their response was to attempt to wipe them out. Like any animal would, the geth fought back viciously for their survival. In a fight like that, you hold nothing back. The quarians got just what they deserved if you ask me.

I agree, even though I don't justify the need to kill innocents, I'm assuming at that point of their excistence, they might not of been aware to a point and surely weren't as evolved as they are now.  They probably assumed that all Quarians were going to be hostile and just kept killing because of whatever programming at that time. 

Modifié par spiros9110, 09 août 2011 - 03:17 .

[MadCat221]

Angmir wrote...

MadCat221 wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

Angmir wrote...

There will be no peace - only submision ... Geth must be returned to they rightfull masters the Quarian people - They must be reprogramed back into obidient half-inteligent Droids as they should have been from the start.

That must be the dumbest solution of all. The geth broke free once, they can do it again. If you go to war with the geth, fine. But make sure you put them down for good, don't make the same stupid mistake again.

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

Those who disregard history are doomed to outdo it.

People learn form their mistakes - if you will get burned in hand while grabing hot sausage from the fire next time you will use a fork to pick it up.

When you hurt your feet while walking on rocky road, next time you will put a good shoes on.

same goes with Afrtificial Inteigences - first they were developed without thinking about possible rebelions, now that eople had expirienced this they know precautions they must take. They are hundreds of ways to prevent Machines from rebeling.

No way Quarains will get sloppy again with "recalibrating" Geth. (unless they are total looser - which in fact they are)

There is no way such dilemas will not happen in our real world - we are in fact realy close to the point when we start to manufacture our own AIs. This is natural step in civilizations development. We must do our best not to make similar mistakes. And belive me this is avoidable - no matter how inteigent AI always will be inferior to the brain that constructed it.

You completely missed the point.  The Geth developed emergent sentience, and the Quarian's solution was to continue to treat them as things, that have now malfunctioned.

You advocate completely disregarding what they have become and to again just treat them as things.


And your hubris concerning the "always inferior" bit is... disconcerting.  Computers are already far better number crunchers than we'll ever be.

[Skirata129]

just going to point out a logical flaw with the argument that the quarians believed the geth to be tools and therefore reacted appropriately to the discovery of their sentience... if the first slave traders in Africa had believed the noises made by local tribesmen they captured to have no more significance than a wolf's howl, and panicked and tried to kill them when they discovered their slaves were self aware, would you support the slave traders?

Modifié par Skirata129, 10 août 2011 - 03:59 .

[jshadow]

MadCat221 wrote...

Angmir wrote...

MadCat221 wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

Angmir wrote...

There will be no peace - only submision ... Geth must be returned to they rightfull masters the Quarian people - They must be reprogramed back into obidient half-inteligent Droids as they should have been from the start.

That must be the dumbest solution of all. The geth broke free once, they can do it again. If you go to war with the geth, fine. But make sure you put them down for good, don't make the same stupid mistake again.

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

Those who disregard history are doomed to outdo it.

People learn form their mistakes - if you will get burned in hand while grabing hot sausage from the fire next time you will use a fork to pick it up.

When you hurt your feet while walking on rocky road, next time you will put a good shoes on.

same goes with Afrtificial Inteigences - first they were developed without thinking about possible rebelions, now that eople had expirienced this they know precautions they must take. They are hundreds of ways to prevent Machines from rebeling.

No way Quarains will get sloppy again with "recalibrating" Geth. (unless they are total looser - which in fact they are)

There is no way such dilemas will not happen in our real world - we are in fact realy close to the point when we start to manufacture our own AIs. This is natural step in civilizations development. We must do our best not to make similar mistakes. And belive me this is avoidable - no matter how inteigent AI always will be inferior to the brain that constructed it.

You completely missed the point.  The Geth developed emergent sentience, and the Quarian's solution was to continue to treat them as things, that have now malfunctioned.

You advocate completely disregarding what they have become and to again just treat them as things.


And your hubris concerning the "always inferior" bit is... disconcerting.  Computers are already far better number crunchers than we'll ever be.

Unless you sign up for project Overlord, of course. =P

Jokes aside, it's possible that Geth won't even need Quarian homeworld anymore, considering they've been building a superstructure for the past 300 years where they'll one day all upload into and have a comfy existance of perfect unity.^^

[The Twilight God]

The quarians got what was coming to them. They struck first. They don't have the right to play the victim. As if the only option was kill all Geth or future geth uprising. There was simply no possible way to simply stop using them as slaves and incorporate them into society?

None of it makes any sense. Bioware says the geth do not fear or have emotion, yet they have a strong sense of self preservation. If they lack biological drives they shouldn't care if they live or die. There is no reason to defend themselves.  

[Quole]

Agamo45 wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

Quarians "hating" the geth is justifiable. Quarians made the geth in the first place and the geth killed the quarians almost to extinction. If the geth only attacked the quarian military for trying to kill then, that would have been undestandable. But there is no excuse for killing billions of civilians. I do support the peace between the two. But if I have to take sides I will pick the quarians.

The quarians played God when they created the geth, and then when their creations became self-aware, their response was to attempt to wipe them out. Like any animal would, the geth fought back viciously for their survival. In a fight like that, you hold nothing back. The quarians got just what they deserved if you ask me.

The geth becoming sentient was a mistake.

[Quole]

Clonedzero wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Why on earth should either side answer for crimes committed centuries ago by beings that no longer exist?

Just propagating stupidity.

well geth are artifical lifeforms, so isn't it likely the ones that kicked the quarians off the planet would still be around? so wouldnt they remember how the quarians tried to wipe them out once they realized they were selfaware.

and the quarians have done absolutely nothing to earn back the geth's trust

The quarians dont even know that the geth are willing to be peaceful. Everyone just assumes all geth are heretics.

[Quole]

The Twilight God wrote...

The quarians got what was coming to them. They struck first. They don't have the right to play the victim. As if the only option was kill all Geth or future geth uprising. There was simply no possible way to simply stop using them as slaves and incorporate them into society?

None of it makes any sense. Bioware says the geth do not fear or have emotion, yet they have a strong sense of self preservation. If they lack biological drives they shouldn't care if they live or die. There is no reason to defend themselves.  

Actually, they have every right to play victim. They are in this situation because of something their ancestors did, not them, and because the only contact they have with the geth is with the heretics, they have no reason to believe the geth want peace.

Modifié par Quole, 10 août 2011 - 11:13 .