483 réponses à ce sujet

[General User]

I know, right! That's something I always wanted to ask Legion about.

"If the quarians attacked you 100% of the time when they thought they could win, what percent of the time did they attack you when they thought they would lose?"

and

"Do geth make a habit of attacking when they think they are going to lose?"

Modifié par General User, 10 août 2011 - 11:31 .

[Soccer FeverMan]

Seboist wrote...

The council should have given peace a chance by wiping out the Geth when they were butchering the Quarians instead of allowing them to grow into a greater threat down the line.

Screw that im not bailing you out of a mistake i warned you not to make. The council put laws against AI research, what do the quarians do they skirt the law by saying "technically we not doin anything illegal daaa". If your gonna play on the edge of a 700ft cliff, you have a good chance of falling off.

[Quole]

Soccer FeverMan wrote...

Seboist wrote...

The council should have given peace a chance by wiping out the Geth when they were butchering the Quarians instead of allowing them to grow into a greater threat down the line.

Screw that im not bailing you out of a mistake i warned you not to make. The council put laws against AI research, what do the quarians do they skirt the law by saying "technically we not doin anything illegal daaa". If your gonna play on the edge of a 700ft cliff, you have a good chance of falling off.

So you dont care that countless innocents are going to die, regardless if they had anything to do with the creation of the geth? Remember that as well, the geth were never meant to be sentient, it was   an unforseen occurance.

Modifié par Quole, 11 août 2011 - 12:34 .

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Again this silly comment of the Geth's sentience not be a part of the plan.... no sencient specie is ever meant to be sentient it just happens to those smart enough and lucky enough to eventually have minds that can think outside of their instinct/programing.

The Geth's sentients just happening makes them exactly the same as every other sentient specie in the galaxy.

[Sepewrath]

No it doesn't not even come remotely close. Sentient species evolve with their planet, they grow within its ecosystem, you ever heard of Invasive Species? Those are species that are put in an environment that are not their own and in most cases, completely screws up the local ecosystem. Now imagine creating a species and sticking it in there, there are no words to describe the level of how wrong that is.

Modifié par Sepewrath, 11 août 2011 - 01:01 .

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Saphra Deden wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

The Geth's sentients just happening makes them exactly the same as every other sentient specie in the galaxy.

No it doesn't.

Yes, it does. Sentience just happens. The majority of species never evolve to be smart enough to gain sentience. The fact that we eventually became sentient instead of just remaining apes that pick flees out of eachother's fur was just an accident, a lucky accident that we just happened to get smarter instead of leveling off like every other specie on Earth.

Sentience is a cosmic lottery that we happened to win. We didn't earn it and evolution never designed it it just happened. It just happened with us one day it just happened with the Geth one day.

[StellarMagic]

I could understand the Quarian reaction being lets shut them all down and track down this flaw in their programming... that's not what is argued.

What is argued is... Oh my god they're sapient! Quick, shut them down before they figure out that they're not dependent on us! We have to stop them from rebelling and wiping us all out!

Now... this thread is entitled "If the quarians would just give peace a chance..."

The geth are at least partially responsible for not pushing for peace as well. They should have sent out an emissary long before Legion.

[Sepewrath]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...
Yes, it does. Sentience just happens. The majority of species never evolve to be smart enough to gain sentience. The fact that we eventually became sentient instead of just remaining apes that pick flees out of eachother's fur was just an accident, a lucky accident that we just happened to get smarter instead of leveling off like every other specie on Earth.

Sentience is a cosmic lottery that we happened to win. We didn't earn it and evolution never designed it it just happened. It just happened with us one day it just happened with the Geth one day.

Well first off sentience is a funny thing, those apes would be considered sentient, it doesn't just mean you know how to talk. Basically it just means your conscious of your existence. A Seal is sentient, that's why they try to avoid sharks eating them. And it is a desire of evolution, because the drive to mate is a product of sentience, a creature wants to pass on its genes, if it were not conscious of its existence, it wouldn't and the species would die out.

Taking it as far as humans have to develop written language, complex tools etc is not even a lucky break, evolution demanded intelligence. Humans cant run as fast as a Cheetah, grow back limbs, fly etc. So intelligence to make tools and communicate were necessary. None of this applies to the Geth, they were created and didn't evolve naturally, they were driven to sentience by the Quarians.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Sepewrath wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...
Yes, it does. Sentience just happens. The majority of species never evolve to be smart enough to gain sentience. The fact that we eventually became sentient instead of just remaining apes that pick flees out of eachother's fur was just an accident, a lucky accident that we just happened to get smarter instead of leveling off like every other specie on Earth.

Sentience is a cosmic lottery that we happened to win. We didn't earn it and evolution never designed it it just happened. It just happened with us one day it just happened with the Geth one day.

Well first off sentience is a funny thing, those apes would be considered sentient, it doesn't just mean you know how to talk. Basically it just means your conscious of your existence. A Seal is sentient, that's why they try to avoid sharks eating them. And it is a desire of evolution, because the drive to mate is a product of sentience, a creature wants to pass on its genes, if it were not conscious of its existence, it wouldn't and the species would die out.

Taking it as far as humans have to develop written language, complex tools etc is not even a lucky break, evolution demanded intelligence. Humans cant run as fast as a Cheetah, grow back limbs, fly etc. So intelligence to make tools and communicate were necessary. None of this applies to the Geth, they were created and didn't evolve naturally, they were driven to sentience by the Quarians.

You my friend don't understand sentience. The seal running away from the shark is not signs of sentience its instict, its biological programing that is all. Every specie is programed with three basic rules. 1) Eat 2) Don't be eaten 3) Pass on genes. That is how everyone is wired so an animal doing one of those three things is simply the meat based computer doing what it is programed to do. They are an organic robot that is all they are. A robot that is programed to run away from a lion and then does it isn't sencient its just doing what its been programed to do.  Its why we typically don't like snakes, spider, or heights. Because those things typically kill us so our computer tells us to stay away.

Take a bird for instance you might look at a bird building a nest and think that's a sign of intellegence... it isn't we've proven it is nothing but programing. A bird once built a nest then when it was done a human poked a hole in the bottom of the nest and the eggs it layed rolled out and fell on the ground the bird saw this but the thought of fixing the nest never came to it because it wasn't programed how to repair a nest only to make it. It also didn't leave the nest because its program told it it had built the nest so everything was fine. It sat there and kept laying eggs only to have them all fall out. The bird is not sentient because it isn't aware and it isn't intellegent. Just like the seal running from danger isn't doing it because its smart its doing it because that's what its genes tell it to do.

Sentience is being able to think outside of your programing. We are capable of doing things that we were never programed to do just like the Geth were able to do things they were never programed to do. We aren't born with the knowlege of how to build a house... or how to operate a car we learn all these things and are able to absorbe new information, As for 'natural' it doesn't matter how one came about being all that matters is can it think and the Geth can.

Modifié par ISpeakTheTruth, 11 août 2011 - 01:44 .

[Saaziel]

Saphra Deden wrote...

The quarians attacking the geth 100% of the time (during the war) when they thought they can win doesn't mean much. Any force will do that during a conflict since the objective of a war is to win.

If Geth sent unharmed representative platforms to negotiate with the Quarians, for example , attacking them wouldn't make any sense. The objective of war is to survive it, peaceful treaties & settlements tend to do so.

StellarMagic wrote...
The geth are at least partially
responsible for not pushing for peace as well. They should have sent
out an emissary long before Legion.

My last play through was some time ago; Perhaps its was in this context that Legion claimed that the Quarians attacked when victory was assured.

Modifié par Saaziel, 11 août 2011 - 01:45 .

[Quole]

Saaziel wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

The quarians attacking the geth 100% of the time (during the war) when they thought they can win doesn't mean much. Any force will do that during a conflict since the objective of a war is to win.

If Geth sent unharmed representative platforms to negotiate with the Quarians, for example , attacking them wouldn't make any sense. The objective of war is to survive it, peaceful treaties & settlements tend to do so.

StellarMagic wrote...
The geth are at least partially
responsible for not pushing for peace as well. They should have sent
out an emissary long before Legion.

My last play through was some time ago; Perhaps its was in this context that Legion claimed that the Quarians attacked when victory was assured.

I doubt that. Why would they not attempt to contact the rest of the galaxy as well? Why just give up? Whenever the citidel races tried to communicate with them, apparently they always let the heretics respond aggresively. Dosnt seem like they have tried that much to negotiate peace in general.

[Saaziel]

Quole wrote...


I doubt that. Why would they not attempt to contact the rest of the galaxy as well? Why just give up? Whenever the citidel races tried to communicate with them, apparently they always let the heretics respond aggresively. Dosnt seem like they have tried that much to negotiate peace in general.

They (Geth) might not have known of the citadel races or the existing political situation. Similarly they might not have cared ; For all intents and purposes they were in conflict only with their Creator.

And as someone else pointed out in an other thread; The Geth might have assumed that people would notice the difference between factions : Heretic/True. Moreover the ties were severed at that point , its not clear how much the True Geth were let on after that.

That said the point still stand : Attacking when victory is assured is not always the most effective way of conducting a war.

[AnAccountWithNoName]

The Geth were created by Ma....i mean the Quarians

They Rebelled

They Evolved

They look and feel Geth

One was programmed to think like an Individual

There are many copies

And they have a PLAN......called Isolationism

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Saaziel wrote...

If Geth sent unharmed representative platforms to negotiate with the Quarians, for example , attacking them wouldn't make any sense. The objective of war is to survive it, peaceful treaties & settlements tend to do so.

What makes you think the geth ever did that?

What makes you think they didn't?

[Saaziel]

Saphra Deden wrote...
What makes you think the geth ever did that?

Nothing.

It was an hypothetical example* that refute this: "The quarians attacking the geth 100% of the time (during the war) {SNIP} Any force will do that during a conflict since the objective of a war is to win." Also its meant to challenge your views on the objectives of war .

To "win" a war is an oversimplification, since victory can take many shapes and forms that are not contingent on continuous attacks , even when at an advantage.

*I thought it was obvious given the syntax : IF ... For Example ...

Modifié par Saaziel, 11 août 2011 - 02:45 .

[Saaziel]

You can always tell when you won an argument against Saphra ; Animosity , blatant projections , paranoid rants and self-indulgent fantasies soon follow.

Modifié par Saaziel, 11 août 2011 - 02:52 .

[Demyx89]

I would say that both the quarins and the geth smeared each other. I love them both, I just dont like the Heretics. .... Peace is what matters in war. And as a side note the quarins feel as the the geth are some what their childern so take that into consideration for all of this is just opinions. Only Bioware knows its true nature.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Some of the Quarians see the Geth that way. The Qwib-Qwib side of the Quarians. The other sides either just want them dead or enslaved. Long time peace I fear is doomed to fail because this hate runs so deep.

[gosimmons]

Saaziel wrote...

You can always tell when you won an argument against Saphra ; Animosity , blatant projections , paranoid rants and self-indulgent fantasies soon follow.

Whether or not he's too abrasive about it, I wouldn't say he has no point.
Hard to have much basis for a hypothetical like that.