483 réponses à ce sujet

[Battlepope190]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

It's not genocide if they are robots.

Good thing they're not just robots.

Like it or not, the galaxy is a better place with the Geth than it is without.

Modifié par Battlepope190, 02 août 2011 - 03:09 .

[_Somebody]

S.A.K wrote...

If peace is imposible in ME3, Shepard should fire some EMP at Rannoch. That would free the planet for the quarians.

Or fire it at the floatilla instead. 

[AngelicMachinery]

The fact that sci-fi fans seem to have a difficulty associating with AI with a form of life is utterly mind boggling to me.

[bleetman]

Oh, please don't start pretending that if our computers and automated machinery started spontaneously asking if they were alive and had a soul, that humanity would respond by excitedly embracing them. Or that if it resulted in a war that left less than one percent of the Earth's population alive and on the run, we'd just accept our dwindling, inevitable extinction.

Of course they're sopradically raiding their former homeworlds. What's their other option, exactly? The one (and only, as far as I'm aware) time they found somewhere apparently suitable to scratch a living from, the Citadel moved a fleet in and bombarded their settlement from orbit. Every incursion into Geth space, for whatever reason, it met with open hostility. Like I mentioned, negotiation was already attempted, and always ended with the emissary ships being destroyed as soon as they entered Geth space.. Nobody has any reason to assume reconciliation is possible. It's not like the Geth are bucking for peace, and the Quarians are stubbornly refusing it, here.

Modifié par bleetman, 02 août 2011 - 03:10 .

[S.A.K]

C9316 wrote...

This wouldn't even be a problem if the quarians hadn't tried to deactivate them all, which to the geth was an attempt of genocide on their entire race, so in this case the quarians got off easy in my opinion. The geth were well within their rights to completely exterminate the quarians for trying to completely wipe them out for no good reason other than the geth asking if they had souls. I also find it understandable for the geth to have adopted their isolationist stance towards organics, the last time they were associated with organics they were nearly exterminated.

WTF? Quarians tried to deactivate the machines they made. Are you siggesting that I commit murder when I throw away my old pc? And who gave the geth the right to commit genocide? Buddy what planet are you from?

[Skirata129]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

JediMaster_Murph wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

It's not genocide if they are robots.

its still the attempted extintion of a race of sentient beings

Sentient beings that can be created again and again very fast.

so can we. wonder why overpopulation is an issue?

[DarkDragon777]

I'd rather blow up the Migrant Fleet, shoot Tali in the face, and have 10's of thousands of geth warships at my disposal.

[Skirata129]

S.A.K wrote...

C9316 wrote...

This wouldn't even be a problem if the quarians hadn't tried to deactivate them all, which to the geth was an attempt of genocide on their entire race, so in this case the quarians got off easy in my opinion. The geth were well within their rights to completely exterminate the quarians for trying to completely wipe them out for no good reason other than the geth asking if they had souls. I also find it understandable for the geth to have adopted their isolationist stance towards organics, the last time they were associated with organics they were nearly exterminated.

WTF? Quarians tried to deactivate the machines they made. Are you siggesting that I commit murder when I throw away my old pc? And who gave the geth the right to commit genocide? Buddy what planet are you from?

and I think the metaphor you're looking for is giving birth to a child with severe mental handicaps, deciding that it's best use is hard labor, then trying to kill it when it asks you if it has a soul.

[TheBlackBaron]

pablodurando wrote...

The geth may be living but they are machines.  The smartest way to defeat the enemy is to eradicate them, they did that.  Also remember that these were primitive geth models who were barely digesting the concept of soul.  I believe that the geth are evolving and developing more organic qualities such as morals.

Well, if we're playing the logical card, then logically synthetics will eventually comes to the conclusion that organic life does absolutely nothing for them and is only going to be a threat. 

And, of course, logically, if you've got an entire race "enslaved" (only very loosely applies to the original geth, imo - do we consider robots working on assembly lines enslaved?) and they're starting to gain sentience, which creates a whole mess of problems both internally and potentially externally in the form of Council actions, then the wisest course of action is to get rid of them before things get really bad (which they did, of course, The Morning War essentially being a vast slave rebellion of the sort that kept the Spartans or southern plantation owners up at night). 

And, finally, it's not genocide if it's robots. Seriously. Don't confuse the utter and permanent extermination of an ethnic group with breaking something that can be rebuilt from blueprints. 

[thatguy212]

S.A.K wrote...

If peace is imposible in ME3, Shepard should fire some EMP at Rannoch. That would free the planet for the quarians.

the computer systems in the mass effect universe are optical systems not electronic, so they wouldn't be affected

[S.A.K]

bleetman wrote...

Oh, please don't start pretending that if our computers and automated machinery started spontaneously asking if they were alive and had a soul, that humanity would respond by excitedly embracing them. Or that if it resulted in a war that left less than one percent of the Earth's population alive and on the run, we'd just accept our dwindling, inevitable extinction.

Of course they're sopradically raiding their former homeworlds. What's their other option, exactly? The one (and only, as far as I'm aware) time they found somewhere apparently suitable to scratch a living from, the Citadel moved a fleet in and bombarded their settlement from orbit. Every incursion into Geth space, for whatever reason, it met with open hostility. Like I mentioned, negotiation was already attempted, and always ended with the emissary ships being destroyed as soon as they entered Geth space.. Nobody has any reason to assume reconciliation is possible. It's not like the Geth are bucking for peace, and the Quarians are stubbornly refusing it, here.

Exactly this. Geth tried to kill Shepard him/herself more than once. If Legion wasn't there to pretty up everything the geth did, no one would take their side. Plus even Legion is fighting the other geth.

[Skirata129]

so you're saying that how fast someone can reproduce is directly related to the value of their life?

[AngelicMachinery]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

JediMaster_Murph wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

It's not genocide if they are robots.

its still the attempted extintion of a race of sentient beings

Sentient beings that can be created again and again very fast.

so can we. wonder why overpopulation is an issue?

Look how long that took. Thousands of geth can be made within days. Humans cannot.

Oh you.

[JediMaster_Murph]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

JediMaster_Murph wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

It's not genocide if they are robots.

its still the attempted extintion of a race of sentient beings

Sentient beings that can be created again and again very fast.

9 months isnt that long, how long does it take to make a geth?

[elearon1]

I'm against peace between the Quarians and the Geth ... once we are done with the Reapers I say we put an end to the Geth menace once and for all. Of course, I could be biased after seeing so many good people killed by the toaster people in the first game, but that is why you don't want soldiers making those kinds of decisions.

Seriously, though, by this point the Quarian desire to return home is just a pipe dream - after so long in space and so much damage and alteration to their biology, there are likely many planets they could go to - if the Council weren't being jerks about it. (as I recall the Quarians tried to resettle elsewhere once and the Council batch slapped 'em)

As to peace ... I'd rather they just reached a no-hostilities agreement; it is too soon after the Geth made their first, vague, overtures of helping to spring up and wave the "peace" flags. (this is more an issue of timeline ... I'm not against the two forming some peace in the distant future, just not virtually overnight after meeting Legion)

[bleetman]

I like the whole "Geth are just as alive as organics" thing that flies around, I really do. What with Legion himself specifically explaining that applying that line of thinking to synthetic beings is fallacious. Geth don't view their own existence in the same light as they do that of organics. Neither should we.

Modifié par bleetman, 02 août 2011 - 03:15 .

[JediMaster_Murph]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

JediMaster_Murph wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

It's not genocide if they are robots.

its still the attempted extintion of a race of sentient beings

Sentient beings that can be created again and again very fast.

so can we. wonder why overpopulation is an issue?

Look how long that took. Thousands of geth can be made within days. Humans cannot.

proof??

[S.A.K]

thatguy212 wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

If peace is imposible in ME3, Shepard should fire some EMP at Rannoch. That would free the planet for the quarians.

the computer systems in the mass effect universe are optical systems not electronic, so they wouldn't be affected

Maybe. But it will destroy all geth mobile platforms which run on electricity.

[JediMaster_Murph]

bleetman wrote...

I like the whole "Geth are just as alive as organics" thing that flies around, I really do. What with Legion himself specifically explaining that applying that line of thinking to synthetic beings is fallacious. Geth don't view their own existence in the same light as they do that of organics. Neither should we.

 im not saying we should treat them as individuals which they are not, but you still cant just exterminate them

[elearon1]

JediMaster_Murph wrote...

9 months isnt that long, how long does it take to make a geth? 

The difference is, a Geth is a fully formed killing machine once it is built - and from what little we learn in game, it doesn't seem like it takes very long to make a new Geth.  The Quarians, on the other hand, still have to mature and be trained in combat ... I don't recall how fast Quarians mature, but assuming it is similar to humans, we're talking at least 14 years.