400 réponses à ce sujet

[RagingCyclone]

King Minos, a lot of business' rely on word of mouth for sales as well as marketing and advertising. If there was negative feedback that drew sales down...the fact remains sales are down. No amount of sugar coating changes the raw numbers. So the point still stands, arguing that Laidlaw is reaching a wider audience fails.

[King Minos]

Oh and each voice type In saints row 2 was always different. Unlike same games where they say 'oh no! My gun is broken!' spoken in the same way but just a differen voice actor, saints row 2 has it's voice types say something completely different in the same situation, black may say 'oh **** fool!', Hispanic will say 'ah no! *says something I spanish*' and the British accent goes 'ah bollocks mate!'. Im not being racist is stereotyping coloured people, all the accents of the protagonist is stereotype in saints row2.

[King Minos]

That's what I mean raging cyclone, word did spread. Have ou seen the sales chart? Da2 had higher first day sales but went to ****** poor over the months and origins got more sales! I agree with what you are saying, not agaisnt it.

[DahliaLynn]

I didn't mind Fem Hawke's VO, but it was *her*, not me. No question. Amstrad mentions how in banter he gets far more satisfaction from him as a player being able to laugh (and for me sometimes to extremes I heartily agree with this. For the most part, Hawke was silent while the NPC's spoke with each other anyway.

My suggestion was to create icons beside the lines being spoken, and IF you see the PC ..then he/she can react with an appropriate expression, and if at all, we should only rarely see the PC face in conversation. I don't see myself when I speak to someone.

Guiding Hawke like a toy was just disconnecting. Guiding the Warden was me.

But since they are gravitating towards the inevitable voice approach, the only suggestion I would make (yes tons of resource time I know) would be to have various different VAs for the PC. At least I can choose a voice style that may suit my tastes. Perhaps then I can feel connected to Hawke.

My greatest wish for the future of these games is to cause me as a player to *feel* something for Hawke's experiences. If they can do that they have me in their pocket .

Currently there's something missing in that connection.

[RagingCyclone]

King Minos wrote...

That's what I mean raging cyclone, word did spread. Have ou seen the sales chart? Da2 had higher first day sales but went to ****** poor over the months and origins got more sales! I agree with what you are saying, not agaisnt it.

Then I misunderstood what you were trying to say on that post. I apologize for the misunderstanding. 

[DahliaLynn]

Yellow Words wrote...

AmstradHero wrote...

The personal connection with the character is a personal player issue. With a silent protagonist, I personally feel as though I have more flexibility in terms of the actual delivery of the line, allowing for greater breadth and depth of personality within the bounds of the written lines of dialogue players are given. This means I'm able to play directly as "me" should I so choose, or a predefined character of my choosing, rather than one matching the two or three character archetypes given to us.

That doesn't work for me. Not when I imagine a tone and the response I get from NPC's is totally off, especially when there are no room to clarify what you meant or even to say that they misunderstood. So if you wouldn't mind answering, how do you deal with a situation like that in the game?    

That's actually the work of how the writers design the conversation itself. In the case where there is too much room for possible delivery options, you can add a question option "you misunderstood..." or an answer from the NPC "unless I've misunderstood you" (which they have done in some cases in Origins)
Also, adding icons to the lines selected could help clarify how you are about to deliver your own line.

[King Minos]

I neve said Laidlaw reached a wider audience, I said he will try to reach a bigger audience and that original origin fans will need to deal with the fact that voiced protagonist might be back and role-play will be much harder to do unless Mike was kidnapped or changes his goals. The best way to keep all fans happy is to have multiple voice actors, some may it agree but atleast they have the hands to pick a voice type that matches their character they roleplaying as. I just hope we can continue with another member of the Amell family and play as an apostate with a similiar voice actor to Claudia black or Jo Wyatt. Being an Amell is not important but I would prefer it.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

I hope they do not bring back a voiced protagonist since it adds so many limitations to game design and player freedoms...but I think it's here to stay, which means I'll likely not be buying Bioware products for awhile.

There's too big a divide between people who want to watch an interactive movie and people who want to roleplay a character as an interactive experience to find a nice middle ground on this issue.

[King Minos]

Multiple voices will fix most problems, it satisfies the players who want voice and maybe please those who don't want voice but have a choice on which voice fits their character. You people do know that origins had a voiced warden? He or she did not speak during conversations but did sprout random battle cries during combat, I bet that didn't fit your role playing character.

[ladyofpayne]

Voiced. Elven PC I will like only on DAO design.
Let it be a charming human voice.

[DahliaLynn]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

I hope they do not bring back a voiced protagonist since it adds so many limitations to game design and player freedoms...but I think it's here to stay, which means I'll likely not be buying Bioware products for awhile.

There's too big a divide between people who want to watch an interactive movie and people who want to roleplay a character as an interactive experience to find a nice middle ground on this issue.

I think there's big bucks to be made in making a game where you are in an interactive movie  only keep it in first person wherever possible as they did in Origins.  Isn't the goal of a game to give you an experience you would normally never have in real life? A "virtual reality" if you will.

The trick is, to feel like it is indeed being you in that movie ...where a voiced protagonist cannot give you that imo.   

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 21 août 2011 - 02:55 .

[Nhadalie]

While I like having more options to create more characters, I'd prefer a voiced protagonist. I don't really care whether the protagonist is human, elf, or dwarf. As long as the story is interesting, and detailed.

With multiple choices, you end up spending a large amount of resources on creating backstories for each of them, like in Origins. And while I enjoyed Origins a lot, and think it was a great introduction to the series, I don't think it necessarily makes for the best game. I'd rather have one really in depth background story instead of seven decent ones.

While some of the Origin stories were fantastic, others fell a bit short. Some of them didn't feel as complete, or detailed as other ones.

The only other option to avoid Origin style back stories, would be to have one single background story. Which sort of worked in BG, NWN, and other similar games. But in most cases, that scenario felt awkward, because it seemed like the PC was only meant to be human. Not to mention the whole "orphan" back story has been used so many times. I liked seeing Hawke's family, and seeing how they acted towards each other.

[Zjarcal]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

There's too big a divide between people who want to watch an interactive movie and people who want to roleplay a character as an interactive experience to find a nice middle ground on this issue.

I love this kind of comment, those of us who want a voiced PC don't want to roleplay... lovely.

DahliaLynn wrote...
Isn't the goal of a game to give you an experience you would normally never have in real life? A "virtual reality" if you will. 

Because DA2 is something we could experience in real life?

[Zanallen]

Zjarcal wrote...

Because DA2 is something we could experience in real life?

My dwarf friend and I just got back from an excursion into a massive network of caverns. We found some ancient treasure, but damn were those giant spiders a pain.

[DahliaLynn]

Zjarcal wrote...

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

There's too big a divide between people who want to watch an interactive movie and people who want to roleplay a character as an interactive experience to find a nice middle ground on this issue.

I love this kind of comment, those of us who want a voiced PC don't want to roleplay... lovely.

I would have to agree with Ryllen that those who choose Voiced are more controlling a separate character and not roleplaying as themselves in a characters shoes. A middle ground would be optimal.

Zjarcal wrote...

DahliaLynn wrote...
Isn't the goal of a game to give you an experience you would normally never have in real life? A "virtual reality" if you will. 

Because DA2 is something we could experience in real life?

Was this point missed? It is exactly why we would like to live the adventure of DA2. because...no....it isn't something we could experience in real life.

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 21 août 2011 - 05:39 .

[Zjarcal]

DahliaLynn wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

There's too big a divide between people who want to watch an interactive movie and people who want to roleplay a character as an interactive experience to find a nice middle ground on this issue.

I love this kind of comment, those of us who want a voiced PC don't want to roleplay... lovely.

I would have to agree with Ryllen that those who choose Voiced are more controlling a separate character and not roleplaying as themselves in a characters shoes. A middle ground would be optimal.

What does playing a separate character have to do with roleplaying? Who are you to say that I don't get "in character" when roleplaying a voiced PC?

Silent or voiced, I am always roleplaying a character of my creation. That character is not ME since I do not attempt to create a character that resembles me in any way, so it IS a separate character. The character is mine (as in, I created that character's persona) and I will roleplay them as I see fit. Technically speaking, I am stepping into their shoes in the sense that I attempt to get into their head and think and react as I feel they would. A voice doesn't prevent me from deciding what my character will do in a specific situation, dialogue choices would be the only limitation there.

I get it that some don't like to have the PC show even an ounce of emotion because none of the present options probably fit what they actually wanted to portray, that's fine, personal preferences. For the record I feel the same way whenever the dialogue choices for a silent PC aren't to my liking. I am ALWAYS limited by the writers no matter how much I want to imagine things differently, voice or no voice.

But it's irritating for people to insinuate that those of us who prefer a voiced protagonist aren't roleplaying.

DahliaLynn wrote...

Was this point missed? It is exactly why we would like to live the adventure of DA2. because...no....it isn't something we could experience in real life. 

I still don't get what you were trying to say then. The voiced PC is what you can experience in real life?

Zanallen wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Because DA2 is something we could experience in real life?

My dwarf friend and I just got back from an excursion into a massive network of caverns. We found some ancient treasure, but damn were those giant spiders a pain.

LOL! Apparently I missed the point but yeah, that was kind of my reaction at first.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 21 août 2011 - 06:03 .

[furryrage59]

Zanallen wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Because DA2 is something we could experience in real life?

My dwarf friend and I just got back from an excursion into a massive network of caverns. We found some ancient treasure, but damn were those giant spiders a pain.

All those things real aside from the meth addict fighting.

[DahliaLynn]

Zjarcal wrote...

What does playing a separate character have to do with roleplaying? Who are you to say that I don't get "in character" when roleplaying a voiced PC?

Who am I to say? I am ME of course! This is my own opinion, and you can disagree as this is your right. You and I don't play the same way, and in the end it really comes down to how Bioware digests the feedback of their players.

Silent or voiced, I am always roleplaying a character of my creation. That character is not ME since I do not attempt to create a character that resembles me in any way, so it IS a separate character. The character is mine (as in, I created that character's persona) and I will roleplay them as I see fit. Technically speaking, I am stepping into their shoes in the sense that I attempt to get into their head and think and react as I feel they would. A voice doesn't prevent me from deciding what my character will do in a specific situation, dialogue choices would be the only limitation there.

 The bold part is where we differ. I do the exact opposite. I enjoy creating characters in my own image and playing them as if they were me. That, for me, is a ton of fun, and brings me deeper into the game moreso than any other I have played prior to Origins. 
In your model. you play someone else. In that case having a voiced protag would make perfect sense. (which is probably why you have no problem with it) You can create tons of Hawkes and play them as puppets who react to your wishes. This isn't my own view on how I would like to play and experience a game.

I get it that some don't like to have the PC show even an ounce of emotion because none of the present options probably fit what they actually wanted to portray, that's fine, personal preferences. For the record I feel the same way whenever the dialogue choices for a silent PC aren't to my liking. I am ALWAYS limited by the writers no matter how much I want to imagine things differently, voice or no voice.

I agree, that is the major limitation in games, but I don't mind it myself, as long as the choices are widespread enough to live a full adventure through the writers vision.

But it's irritating for people to insinuate that those of us who prefer a voiced protagonist aren't roleplaying.

It's deeper than that. Since you and I clearly have different approaches to games, you need to accept that all further opinions on the particular issue will cause friction. (Not my intention though, as these forums are about sharing people's own views.

DahliaLynn wrote...


Was this point missed? It is exactly why we would like to live the adventure of DA2. because...no....it isn't something we could experience in real life. 

I still don't get what you were trying to say then. The voiced PC is what you can experience in real life?

To clarify, following my explanation on how our game experience is about us playing as us, having a game for the player to experience an adventure that would never be available to him/her in real life would make for a fun and deeper "virtual realtiy" experience.

But since the two of us are coming from different directions, I can see why it wasn't clear to you.

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 21 août 2011 - 06:23 .

[Zanallen]

furryrage59 wrote...

All those things real aside from the meth addict fighting.

Meth addicts aren't that hard to fight. It is crack addicts you have to worry about. And people on PCP.

[Zjarcal]

DahliaLynn wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

What does playing a separate character have to do with roleplaying? Who are you to say that I don't get "in character" when roleplaying a voiced PC?

Who am I to say? I am ME of course! This is my own opinion, and you can disagree as this is your right. You and I don't play the same way, and in the end it really comes down to how Bioware digests the feedback of their players.

Your opinion is one thing, I respect that, but to say that I don't "get in character" is basically saying "no, that thing you say you're doing, you're not doing it", even if this thing that I do is entirely up for me to do and not anyone else.

Anyway, having read your post it is indeed clear we have a completely diffent view on this. You enjoy playing self inserts, which are indeed at odds with anything that isn't a complete blank emotional slate. Obviously that's a big difference in our approaches as to how we play the game, so our opinions will differ vastly and it's best to just agree to disagree, otherwise we'll go in circles here.

[Zanallen]

Zjarcal wrote...

Your opinion is one thing, I respect that, but to say that I don't "get in character" is basically saying "no, that thing you say you're doing, you're not doing it", even if this thing that I do is entirely up for me to do and not anyone else.

Anyway, having read your post it is indeed clear we have a completely diffent view on this. You enjoy playing self inserts, which are indeed at odds with anything that isn't a complete blank emotional slate. Obviously that's a big difference in our approaches as to how we play the game, so our opinions will differ vastly and it's best to just agree to disagree, otherwise we'll go in circles here.

This, pretty much. Voiced/Silent, 3rd person/1st person, avatar for self/character designed to fit within the story. These are all just preferences and no one method is better than the other. It is all opinion.

[DahliaLynn]

Just to organize the mess..

Dahlialynn wrote...
I would have to agree with Ryllen that those who choose Voiced are more
controlling a separate character and not roleplaying as themselves in a
characters shoes. A middle ground would be optimal. 

Zjarcal wrote...
Silent or voiced, I am always roleplaying a character of my creation.
That character is not ME since I do not attempt to create a character
that resembles me in any way, so it IS a separate character.

Zjarcal wrote...
Anyway, having read your post it is indeed clear we have a completely
diffent view on this. You enjoy playing self inserts, which are indeed
at odds with anything that isn't a complete blank emotional slate.
Obviously that's a big difference in our approaches as to how we play
the game, so our opinions will differ vastly and it's best to just agree
to disagree, otherwise we'll go in circles here.

I hardly believe a char should have a blank emotional slate. Never said that. Only to have more of a first person approach aside from cutscenes just as they had in Origins would be something I could better relate to.


Perhaps the problem lies where the meaning of "roleplaying" and is basically where we differ.
I roleplay myself as a character, and you roleplay others. Not sure how that works, but I'm sure I'll get a better understanding if I try to play a male Hawke for instance. Even if I did, I can't see myself feeling as deep for Male Hawke as I would feel for a personalized Female Hawke. It's just another type of game really. (I imagine it's fun too, only the stuff that tackles my own gut as Hawke,  as opposed to Male Hawkes gut has a greater impact on me.)

Regardless, indeed, we can agree to disagree of course.

[Azriel77]

Honestly, if the main character is VO's then I will wait for the bargain bin before I even look at the game since it tells me about the direction the game is going. VO'd characters can only say *dumb* one liners, never sound like the character I am trying to make (why does my thoughtful young mage sound like an old sarcastic soldier?), says something opposite than what I meant to say(thanks stupid icons and shortened sentences!), not to mention that your skills will hardly have any affect during dialog options like it did in DAO. I prefer long branching text trees that change based on my skills and choices I make/have made during the play of the game.


bah, who are we kidding, it will be just like DA2 because they want a voiced main character so they can have a "Cinematic Experience". Eaware...ooops, meant bioware, does not make RPG's anymore, they want to make interactive cinematic movies.

[Cutlasskiwi]

Zjarcal wrote...

What does playing a separate character have to do with roleplaying? Who are you to say that I don't get "in character" when roleplaying a voiced PC?

Silent or voiced, I am always roleplaying a character of my creation. That character is not ME since I do not attempt to create a character that resembles me in any way, so it IS a separate character. The character is mine (as in, I created that character's persona) and I will roleplay them as I see fit. Technically speaking, I am stepping into their shoes in the sense that I attempt to get into their head and think and react as I feel they would. A voice doesn't prevent me from deciding what my character will do in a specific situation, dialogue choices would be the only limitation there.

I get it that some don't like to have the PC show even an ounce of emotion because none of the present options probably fit what they actually wanted to portray, that's fine, personal preferences. For the record I feel the same way whenever the dialogue choices for a silent PC aren't to my liking. I am ALWAYS limited by the writers no matter how much I want to imagine things differently, voice or no voice.

But it's irritating for people to insinuate that those of us who prefer a voiced protagonist aren't roleplaying.

 
For the second time today I find myself in total agreement with Zjarcal.  

[Apollo Starflare]

It's simple really. Some play the role of themselves in a fantasy environment, others play the role of a character shaped by their choices (and often personality and the like) in a fantasy environment. Yet somehow this difference leads to all sorts of angry words and silliness.

Just because you enjoy having a voiced protagonist in a role playing game does not mean you are no longer role playing.

As for the OP, I would be torn thanks to my love of Dwarves, however presuming I like the VA of the protagonist then I would probably veer in that direction. I thought they did a great job with Hawke and find it jarring going back to Origins silent protagonist. Not impossibly so by any means, I can quite happily play a silent protagonist, but the really even DAO's protagonists aren't actually silent. They have a voice, you just don't hear it. You don't create their personality from scratch, nor define their intonation and whatnot. Now Zelda (or rather, Link) on the other hand... Well that is a silent protagonist.