400 réponses à ce sujet

[Barry Bathernak]

no voice and origins its the only logical choice.

[errant_knight]

Hated having a voiced character and the dialogue wheel. While I thought the actors did their best with a thankless task--speaking in a way that somehow allows for the player to project a range of emotions into the words, which is virtually impossible without speaking with no intonation at all--a voiceless character works far better. Multiple origins are far more interesting than a single character and create greater replay value, but I would accept any option that got rid of the dialogue wheel.

[Maricsblade]

Even if it had to be a single origin, I would still choose UNVOICED and NO DIALOGUE WHEEL. I never felt like I was role-playing in DA2. It felt more like pulling the strings on a marionette.

[madzilla84]

I don't personally care if there are race choices or not, though I appreciate it's important to others so it'd be a nice feature ... but either way, I love the voiced PC and would like to see it continue, somehow. It'd be good if there could somehow be a middle ground of choices AND a voice.

But if there couldn't, then voice.

[errant_knight]

alisgirl wrote...

Even if it had to be a single origin, I would still choose UNVOICED and NO DIALOGUE WHEEL. I never felt like I was role-playing in DA2. It felt more like pulling the strings on a marionette.

Exactly!!

[DahliaLynn]

errant_knight wrote...

alisgirl wrote...

Even if it had to be a single origin, I would still choose UNVOICED and NO DIALOGUE WHEEL. I never felt like I was role-playing in DA2. It felt more like pulling the strings on a marionette.

Exactly!!

I second this.

[RagingCyclone]

DahliaLynn wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

alisgirl wrote...

Even if it had to be a single origin, I would still choose UNVOICED and NO DIALOGUE WHEEL. I never felt like I was role-playing in DA2. It felt more like pulling the strings on a marionette.

Exactly!!

I second this.

The motion has been moved and seconded...all those in favor say 'aye'...
<-------AYE!!!!

[tuppence95]

I vote for a voiced PC and the dialogue wheel. It's very hard for me to go back to Origins now with the silent character and the lack of personality-based choices in the dialogue.

[RagingCyclone]

Tupp, in all reality you will probably get want you want. Once the pc has moved to the voiced stage it's hard to move back. There was a suggestion earlier that both could be done (different origins using the same two VA's for whichever gender), and that is probably the best scenario to appease most of those across the board. Not everyone will be happy with it, but perhaps it would be more acceptable for the majority.

[DahliaLynn]

RagingCyclone wrote...

Tupp, in all reality you will probably get want you want. Once the pc has moved to the voiced stage it's hard to move back. There was a suggestion earlier that both could be done (different origins using the same two VA's for whichever gender), and that is probably the best scenario to appease most of those across the board. Not everyone will be happy with it, but perhaps it would be more acceptable for the majority.

I admit, I haven't played Origins in a while, (for unrelated reasons) but what I can do is describe the extreme differences in the first feeling I had while playing origins in comparison to DA2.

I felt connected, I felt the Warden was me. I felt like my questions, the questions I had chosen to click on were being directly answered by the NPC in a conversation. The NPC was talking to me. This gave me an intense feeling of immersion, attachment to the events at hand and literally feeling and thinking about the characters even after gameplay.

The minute I played Hawke, Dialogue wheel and voice, I felt like I was playing another character's conscience. It wasn't me, it was Hawke. Perhaps that was the intention, as in you assisting Hawke in his/her adventures.

Since I didn't feel I was Hawke, in turn I just couldn't manage to feel closer to the events and characters Hawke was going through.

There may be many reasons for this, as the changes in DA2 are so numerous it's hard to pinpoint the exact reasons for this feeling (and lack of:P)

After 3 playthroughs now, I find I am getting closer to the characters somewhat and enjoying the game far more, but the feeling of being distant from Hawke lingers.

[tuppence95]

Dahlia, I agree that the first time I played my warden, the roleplay experience was very special, and I felt connected. But I feel that the dialogue system and the lack of expression on the warden's face, and the silent dialogue (for me) reduce that connection with each replay.

I've now played DA2 as many times as I've played Origins, and I think the dialogue wheel, with it's personality choices, keep my connection to Hawke feeling fresher that it did with my warden after repeated gameplays. I'm currently replaying Origins, and I find myself repeatedly hitting escape through the dialogue. I actually fell asleep the other night in the middle of a lengthy dialogue sequence.

The only thing that keeps me going back to Origins now is the mods. Unfortunately, without a toolset, we won't have those for DA2, so I don't think it's likely that I'll still be playing it a year from now.

But in the meantime, the voiced PC and the dialogue system in DA2 are still keeping the game interesting for me.

edit - Also, the dialogue wheel and the opportunity to mold Hawke's personality gave me a strong sense of connection with the character, that I really miss going back to Origins.

Modifié par tuppence95, 20 août 2011 - 11:56 .

[RagingCyclone]

Dahlia, same here. I have still been playing both depending on the day. But where I felt a deep connection to my warden enough I write about him, I just cannot get that way with any of the four Hawke's I have played. It's the voice that, for me, is more of a distraction than a benefit. While I prefer the non voiced protagonist, always have, my gut tells me that those days are over whether I like or not.

[DahliaLynn]

tuppence95 wrote...

Dahlia, I agree that the first time I played my warden, the roleplay experience was very special, and I felt connected. But I feel that the dialogue system and the lack of expression on the warden's face, and the silent dialogue (for me) reduce that connection with each replay.

I agree about the lack of expression on the Warden's face. It was indeed a turn off, but on the other hand it would be complicated to give the Warden an expression to to the endess ways you can imagine saying the sentence you see on screen.  An improvement to this, (as opposed to the drastic change of dialogue wheel AND voice) I would consider adding icons to the dialogue choices themselves making the questions "mood" clearer. In this way, at least you would get two cues on dialogue mood as well as facial expression without breaking the voice barrier.

I've now played DA2 as many times as I've played Origins, and I think the dialogue wheel, with it's personality choices, keep my connection to Hawke feeling fresher that it did with my warden after repeated gameplays. I'm currently replaying Origins, and I find myself repeatedly hitting escape through the dialogue. I actually fell asleep the other night in the middle of a lengthy dialogue sequence.

could it be that you may have forgotten how much you enjoyed playing Origins over and over again way before DA2 came out? I would expect by know you know all the dialogue by heart at this point and feel no sense of surprise. (I'm only assuming here) DA2 manages to give you that sense of surprise by paraphrasing, making everything seem new and refreshing. there are positives to this, but at the price of immersion in my opinion.

The only thing that keeps me going back to Origins now is the mods. Unfortunately, without a toolset, we won't have those for DA2, so I don't think it's likely that I'll still be playing it a year from now.

But in the meantime, the voiced PC and the dialogue system in DA2 are still keeping the game interesting for me.

Do you feel that in a years time you will continue to play DA2? Currently it is interesting as there are many possible experience combo's in DA2 combined with a shorter game and faster response, making it easier to replay. But how would you feel in a year from now?

edit - Also, the dialogue wheel and the opportunity to mold Hawke's personality gave me a strong sense of connection with the character, that I really miss going back to Origins.

I do think that the personality choices were handed to us on a silver platter. I do like the fact that there is the good the sarc the tough, and the mean...but I do think that Origins had the same only the personality wasn't iconized.

That's why I believe that an improvement on origins would be to create icons for the dialogue choices, give the Warden a bit of facial reaction, but keep him/her off camera for the most part. I don't need to see "myself"    I do enjoy *almost* first person viewing of the NPCs I talk to..and watching me as third person when it matters (as in cutscenes).

@rage...yes indeed, according to Mr. Gaider, I believe those days may be over.

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 21 août 2011 - 12:17 .

[AmstradHero]

To be honest, I don't find that a race choice in itself makes a huge difference to me personally. Any time someone makes specific reference to my character belonging to a particular race, it feels very much like a "Hello, you are an elf!" message directly to me. This is because for the most part, that is all it is. There are very few characters that provide a clear and distinct variation in their interaction with you based solely on your race. Furthermore, in many of the characters in Origins treat you differently upon greeting you, but once you flash your "Grey Warden" card they treat you exactly the same as they would anyone else. The difference in Origins was the origin stories themselves, which typically gave you a more personal stake in one of the major quest lines within the game.

I'd also reiterate that Origins (or a non-voiced protagonist in general) allows the player to feel as though they ARE the character, whereas a voiced protagonist makes the player "play the character". With a voiced character, the player is experiencing the story via the protagonist rather than AS the protagonist.

Personally, I like the non-voiced protagonist, because it (potentially) provides that greater connection and also allows for a little more roleplaying within the bounds of the written dialogue. However, the non-voiced protagonist can create a disconnect for some of the more cinematic scenes within the game, as evidenced so clearly by a couple of speeches near the end of Origins. Overall, I'd be willing to take that hit for the increased connection to the game, but it seems that BioWare are keen to pursue the voiced protagonist at this point in time.

[tuppence95]

A lot of the problem that I have with the Origins dialogues, now that I've played the game numerous times, comes more from the approval system. If I wanted to play an aggressive character, I often felt limited in the choices that my warden could make and still keep her companions' loyalty. Unless I want to "cheat" by giving my companions silly gifts (which felt so out of character for an aggressive character), I would find myself making choices that didn't feel right to me.

DahliaLynn wrote...
could it be that you may have forgotten how much you enjoyed playing Origins over and over again way before DA2 came out? I would expect by know you know all the dialogue by heart at this point and feel no sense of surprise. (I'm only assuming here) DA2 manages to give you that sense of surprise by paraphrasing, making everything seem new and refreshing. there are positives to this, but at the price of immersion in my opinion.

Well, I've now played DA2 as many times as I've played Origins. I do remember the wonder I experienced in Origins the first couple times I played it. But the wonder did wear off and the memorized dialogue became something I was ESCing through quickly without paying that much attention to it.

With an equal number of DA2 playthroughs, the dialogue is still managing to give me occasional surprises.

Do you feel that in a years time you will continue to play DA2? Currently it is interesting as there are many possible experience combo's in DA2 combined with a shorter game and faster response, making it easier to replay. But how would you feel in a year from now?

No. That's why I said in my above post that, without a toolset and without the mods that would expand gameplay, I doubt I'll be playing DA2 a year from now. It's the modders that have kept me playing Origins. I doubt that Bioware would be able to come up with that much dlc. So sadly, without a toolset, I'm sure I'll eventually wander off to find something else.

Modifié par tuppence95, 21 août 2011 - 12:32 .

[DahliaLynn]

Oh, I must say, the Friendship/Rivalry system is an incredible improvement on the approval rating system in Origins!!!

I must admit though, I gave gifts only when I thought it natural to give gifts to companions..so the game felt natural to me.

DA2 is easy for me to play and replay. It's short (er) and as I said before the loading and reaction times by far surpass that of Origins.

My only issue, is that I feel little in-the-gut connection to Hawke because of the voice and wheel. It's a big compromise in my opinion since for me, if I truly feel the character I play, I've reached the highest point a game can cause me to feel. And that for me is important in an RPG or any virtual gaming experience. (unless it's FIFA....or something )

Edit:
I suppose the question is replayablitly versus the quality of the very first playthrough. Does there have to be a compromise?

You and I agree, first Origins playthrough was magical. Subsequent were less, but I didn't feel as intense in DA2 first time as I did in Origins. On the other hand, DA2 gets more and more interesting as you keep playing new runs.

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 21 août 2011 - 12:55 .

[DeathDragon185]

use both

[errant_knight]

I don't like the rivalry system, myself. Behavior should have consequences with the party just like anywhere else. I couldn't actually figure out why Hawke's friend's stayed, let alone his/her enemies.

If you're a giant dick, people shouldn't want to have anything to do with you, and you should have to deal with that. The only thind I'd take away is approval from gifts, although I'd keep the cutscene conversations that they created. Well, maybe just one meaningful item per person--not enough to really alter opinion. I really liked being able to give Alistair Duncan's shield

[Zjarcal]

tuppence95 wrote...

I vote for a voiced PC and the dialogue wheel. It's very hard for me to go back to Origins now with the silent character and the lack of personality-based choices in the dialogue.

*high fives tupp*

What I would give to have my warden voiced... I'd probably pay for the game again.

DahliaLynn wrote...

You and I agree, first Origins playthrough was magical. Subsequent were less, but I didn't feel as intense in DA2 first time as I did in Origins. On the other hand, DA2 gets more and more interesting as you keep playing new runs.

Strangely I agree with this. If DA2 had been polished and not rushed I think the first run would've been just as "magical".

But subsequent runs get more fun and I actually felt a lot more joy at the end of my second run than my first.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 21 août 2011 - 06:10 .

[Persephone]

errant_knight wrote...

I don't like the rivalry system, myself.

If you're a giant dick, people shouldn't want to have anything to do with you, and you should have to deal with that.

Only that's not what DAII's rivalry stands for. It's a marked difference of opinion and principles, you do not have to be cruel to achieve that. I.E. I rivalmanced Merrill because my Hawke wanted to protect her, refusing to give her the carving tool, telling to let go of the mirror. And after tragedy struck, Merrill understood that and smashed the mirror.

[Zjarcal]

AmstradHero wrote...

To be honest, I don't find that a race choice in itself makes a huge difference to me personally. Any time someone makes specific reference to my character belonging to a particular race, it feels very much like a "Hello, you are an elf!" message directly to me. 

Agreed, the races hardly made a significant difference.

I'd also reiterate that Origins (or a non-voiced protagonist in general) allows the player to feel as though they ARE the character, whereas a voiced protagonist makes the player "play the character". With a voiced character, the player is experiencing the story via the protagonist rather than AS the protagonist.

I've never gotten the "you ARE the character" thing, I always feel I'm "playing as the character" regardless of whether it's a voiced PC or not.

Persephone wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

I don't like the rivalry system, myself.

If you're a giant dick, people shouldn't want to have anything to do with you, and you should have to deal with that.

Only that's not what DAII's rivalry stands for. It's a marked difference of opinion and principles, you do not have to be cruel to achieve that. I.E. I rivalmanced Merrill because my Hawke wanted to protect her, refusing to give her the carving tool, telling to let go of the mirror. And after tragedy struck, Merrill understood that and smashed the mirror. 

This.

I love the friend/rivalry system.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 21 août 2011 - 06:11 .

[Persephone]

And OT:

If race is as meaningless to the main plot as it was in DAO (Esp. Dalish) where it was little more than flavor, then gimme voiced over that in a heartbeat.

Now if it was differing ORIGINS (No, not the same) vs. voiced, I'd be more torn. But even then I would pick voiced, given how bland the Warden was emotionally.

I'm for a compromise. 3-4 Origins instead of 6-7, yet fully voiced. Use VO actors who can really change their voices to save money. They exist. Ask Audible.com.

[Lenimph]

*screams on the top of her lungs* VOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICCCCCCCCEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED

What was that silent protagonist? You object? Well why don't you tell me why... oh wait 

Modifié par Lenimph, 21 août 2011 - 06:18 .

[Zjarcal]

Persephone wrote...

I'm for a compromise. 3-4 Origins instead of 6-7, yet fully voiced. Use VO actors who can really change their voices to save money. They exist. Ask Audible.com.

I support this. 

[Persephone]

Zjarcal wrote...

Persephone wrote...

I'm for a compromise. 3-4 Origins instead of 6-7, yet fully voiced. Use VO actors who can really change their voices to save money. They exist. Ask Audible.com.

I support this. 

Golden middle = Er...golden