1326 réponses à ce sujet

[GodWood]

Despite the fact that she's 'too pretty' and looks too 'young' those are things I can tolerate (sort of)
My main issue is simply how generic the design is.

I assume they'll add more detail to the blondie before release but as of now she's just a pretty face on some N7 armor. Nothing really unique.

[Arppis]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Xeranx wrote...


Clearly I was stating that a depiction of Shepard as a person of color is under-represented in that list.  1 in 5 chance (if done seperately) or 2 in 6 (as they are) is less than half (50%).  Neither is preferable position.

Were you honestly expecting 3 darker skinned and 3 pale skinned Shepards?

What about asian Shepard?  Zero choices.

Overweight Shepard?  Zero choices.
 
Shepard that looks older than 25?  Zero choices.

Shepard with very dark skin?  Zero choices.

etc.

Bioware could have given us 300 choices, and there still would have been a good deal of groups under-represented or not at all (physically speaking).

It would be absolutely and utterly impossible to represent all possible groups equally.  At least darker skinned Shep got 2 options - much better than asian Shepard fared.

What they did present us with, is the 6 choices they thought would appeal above others, based on market research.  The fact that 4 of those were pale skinned would probably indicate that Bioware believes that the majority of their audience is pale skinned.  That's all there is to it.

Even those "darker" skinned Shepards were just mildly tanned! 

[LPPrince]

By the way, that comic by Penny Arcade shows just how "What the..." the whole BLONDIE IS BAD argument is.

[Tootles FTW]

This gets me unreasonably irritated. There is nothing "Barbie" about the blonde Shep compared to any of the others. She's wearing the same N7 armor, has the same fairly minimal amount of makeup (compared to in-game options that already exist, like flaming red & goth black lipstick), and though her hair is long-ish it's tossled and messy....as opposed to your #1 choice (Shep 4) who has a f*cking dyed red streak in her hair. Is Shepard scrounging for punk-rock cred now? Gag.

Blonde hair =/= ditz, promiscuous, bimbo, Barbie, or any other adjective. Sure, if I had my druthers she'd be a brunette, but that's because I'M a brunette. I'm not going to trivialize a pigmentation because I don't get my way. ...Except for red streaks on military soldiers, of course.

[GodWood]

I say they should burn half her face off Mello style.




That'd be pretty badarse.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Boiny Bunny wrote...
What about asian Shepard?  Zero choices.

What?

[LPPrince]

Bunny was referring to the 6 choices, not in-game choices in past games.

[SpaceinMind]

She wasn't my first choice, but she could make an alright Shephard. I wish they would have just improved on the original femshep though. I have nothing against her blonde hair. I'm interested in seeing how she develops along the line.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

LPPrince wrote...

Bunny was referring to the 6 choices, not in-game choices in past games.

Meh, I ain't had my coffee yet.

I could easily bounce it around though... Out of the 16+ playthroughs of Mass Effect I have never once used Sheploo or Default FemShep.

The one thing I really don't understand about this whining about blondie is this...

How does it affect people that are already importing a Shepard into ME3?

Answer, it doesn't. If you import Default FemShep from ME2, I am going to guess you'll still have her looking as she did before, she isn't magically going to turn into Blondie.

I'm curious then if the main reason people are having a go at Blondie is down to the marketting side of things seeing as she is going to appear in the marketting.

I have a question for such people, are you basically saying the average female gamer isn't intelligent enough to find out that they don't have to use Blondie if they don't want?

If you are, then that really does speak volumes about you rather than them.

[LPPrince]

Again, looking at that, I don't see it. It being how Blondie can't be taken seriously as Commander Shepard.

Its like people are complaining for the sake of complaining.

[Sherbet Lemon]

Well, I kind of that thought that version number 3 was East Asian so I suppose there was some representation at least on that front.  I also thought that the ethnicity of number 6 was rather ambiguous.  I thought that perhaps she could have been South Asian in descent but that is neither here nor there.

As to why marketing and representation matters....well....have a read.

EDIT:  Closeup!

Modifié par Village Idiot, 03 août 2011 - 08:21 .

[xXljoshlXx]

LPPrince wrote...

Again, looking at that, I don't see it. It being how Blondie can't be taken seriously as Commander Shepard.

Its like people are complaining for the sake of complaining.

What else do people do on forums?

[Errol Dnamyx]

xXljoshlXx wrote...
What else do people do on forums?

Attribute negative traits to people with certain features.
Some people might call it racism.
Ohsnap.

[rapscallioness]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Bunny was referring to the 6 choices, not in-game choices in past games.

Meh, I ain't had my coffee yet.

I could easily bounce it around though... Out of the 16+ playthroughs of Mass Effect I have never once used Sheploo or Default FemShep.

The one thing I really don't understand about this whining about blondie is this...

How does it affect people that are already importing a Shepard into ME3?

Answer, it doesn't. If you import Default FemShep from ME2, I am going to guess you'll still have her looking as she did before, she isn't magically going to turn into Blondie.

I'm curious then if the main reason people are having a go at Blondie is down to the marketting side of things seeing as she is going to appear in the marketting.

I have a question for such people, are you basically saying the average female gamer isn't intelligent enough to find out that they don't have to use Blondie if they don't want?

If you are, then that really does speak volumes about you rather than them.

Yeah, ppl already know that. They know it's for marketing. That's why they're ticked because they don't feel it represents the character of Shepard. They're All awful. It seems like something they slapped together the night b4 comicon. All this hoopla and it's some cut and paste looking crap.

It's like them saying they're going to give Sheploo a new look for all the marketing and trailers and posters, yada, yada....and he comes out looking like Justin Bieber. I wouldn't want that for Sheploo, either.

[KingNothing125]

The Penny-Arcade comic (and corresponding News piece) is win.

Full disclosure, my ManSheps never punch al-Jilani because that's pretty f'd up. My renegade FemShep did punch her twice though.

[LPPrince]

KingNothing125 wrote...

The Penny-Arcade comic (and corresponding News piece) is win.

Full disclosure, my ManSheps never punch al-Jilani because that's pretty f'd up. My renegade FemShep did punch her twice though.

My canon MaleShep (don't have a FemShep that I'm carrying through the series) has punched her twice.

Looking forward to making it thrice in ME3.

[rapscallioness]

Yeah I punched her w/ my shepardess until one time I missed it and found out that it was more satisfying to "bull rush" her on her own show. She liked getting footage of me hitting her. That ticked me off. But making her look bad..with renegade talking..was excellent.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

rapscallioness wrote...

It's like them saying they're going to give Sheploo a new look for all the marketing and trailers and posters, yada, yada....and he comes out looking like Justin Bieber. I wouldn't want that for Sheploo, either.

KILL THAT THOUGHT WITH FIRE! how could you possibly come up with that thought, you sick, sick man :happy:

[rapscallioness]

LOL

[xXljoshlXx]

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

xXljoshlXx wrote...
What else do people do on forums?

Attribute negative traits to people with certain features.
Some people might call it racism.
Ohsnap.

You humans are all racist

[Xeranx]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Xeranx wrote...


Clearly I was stating that a depiction of Shepard as a person of color is under-represented in that list.  1 in 5 chance (if done seperately) or 2 in 6 (as they are) is less than half (50%).  Neither is preferable position.

Were you honestly expecting 3 darker skinned and 3 pale skinned Shepards?

What about asian Shepard?  Zero choices.

Overweight Shepard?  Zero choices.
 
Shepard that looks older than 25?  Zero choices.

Shepard with very dark skin?  Zero choices.

etc.

Bioware could have given us 300 choices, and there still would have been a good deal of groups under-represented or not at all (physically speaking).

It would be absolutely and utterly impossible to represent all possible groups equally.  At least darker skinned Shep got 2 options - much better than asian Shepard fared.

What they did present us with, is the 6 choices they thought would appeal above others, based on market research.  The fact that 4 of those were pale skinned would probably indicate that Bioware believes that the majority of their audience is pale skinned.  That's all there is to it.

Do I have any belief that an even split would really mean an increased chance of a person of color being picked?  No.  Unfortunately that decision needs to be made by the people who create the world and write the stories.  Any wonder why in the first game and ME2 that the majority of humans anywhere are caucasian?

However, an even split would do wonders.  I don't think anyone would say it wouldn't on the side of the developers.  I still would rather they don't put it up to a vote for their consumers to decide though.  Fix the default if they want to do that.  It was their decision to decide to work on her so the decision should be up to them.

It is unfortunate that no clear depiction of an Asian Shepard were put up, but I didn't make any distinction as to whether they should be excluded if that's what you're trying to get at.  Asians are considered people of color.  Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Korean, Filipino, Thai, and Indian.  All are valid.  4 of  7 mentioned are typically dark-skinned.  Are they represented?  No.  Would I want them to be represented? Absolutely, yes.  

Unfortunately I'm not concerned with those who are overweight as much as I'm concerned with those who can do the job as well as a caucasian person can.  Someone being overweight and someone being of a different background aren't even on the same level.  Even then, an overweight soldier cannot perform as well as a fit soldier can.  Speaking as an overweight person I know that I can't perform as well someone who actually takes care of themselves. 

If they wanted to give us options that looked older than 25 that would be great.  Still the choices put up were uniform in regards to age so I don't know what you're getting at.

It would be absolutely and utterly impossible to represent all possible groups equally.  At least darker skinned Shep got 2 options - much better than asian Shepard fared.

That 'at least' is a problem.  It illustrates that whatever that 'at least' pertains to could be better but because there's some thing there it's passable.  Why?  Apply it to a variety of things and I guarantee you'll come across a lot of cases where that 'at least' becomes a negative because it highlights something that's missing or irregular.

What they did present us with, is the 6 choices they thought would appeal above others, based on market research.  The fact that 4 of those were pale skinned would probably indicate that Bioware believes that the majority of their audience is pale skinned.  That's all there is to it.

This reminds me of a piece of an article I came across that discusses Neil Gaiman's book, "Anansi Boys" and the possibility of it being a movie:

Somewhere in there, they made the fatal mistake of saying to me, “And, of course, the characters won’t be black in the movie because black people don’t like fantasy.” [/b]

source: collider.com/neil-gaiman-interview-american-gods-doctor-who/99719/

Am I to believe that caucasians won't buy a game if there's a black or Indian individual on the box?  

Using a majority line to justify putting out the same caucasian protagonist is just as weak as the statement I quoted.  If they truly believe, as you say, that the majority of their audience was caucasian then why put the other 2 in there?  Why not put up the 4 they have and leave it at that?  Afterall the game industry is 20+ years old and us Asians, Blacks/Africans, Latino, and Indigenous Americans have been buying games that don't feature (or rarely feature) anyone that looks like us in positions of being a positive protagonist male or female.

[someguy1231]

I love how most of the people complaining about a blonde Femshep looking "stupid" or like "Barbie" or a "bimbo" solely because she has blonde hair and blue eyes are the same people who would have preferred an Asian/Dark-skinned/etc. Femshep in order to show how "inclusive" ME is. Hypocrite much?

Oh, and anyone who thinks blonde, blue-eyed women can't be badass has obviously never watched Fullmetal Alchemist. If you have, you know who I'm talking about.

[SalsaDMA]

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

xXljoshlXx wrote...
What else do people do on forums?

Attribute negative traits to people with certain features.
Some people might call it racism.
Ohsnap.

Yeah, I am surprised the thread turned into some people wanting the 'token' representation forced.

Personally I always saw such moves as being more biggotted than anything else. Choosing characters precisely because of pigmentation of their skin...

Some people really seems to want to steer things in certain directions when a user poll about which default represenation a female version of an avatar should have, in a game where the user can opt out of the default and use an extensive facemod engine to get almost any look he/she wants for the avatar, including pigmentation gets turned into people complaining about racial attributes in the choice that won in the user poll.

It's kind of silly, really, cause regardless of which choice wonl those arguments could be made in one way or another, so making them just makes people look like they are desperate for attention, imo. <_<

(btw, I'm agreeing with Errol here, in case people have a hard time reading. Experiences with BSN by now makes me think people have a tendency to shoot first and read later, or never at all...   )

[SalsaDMA]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

It's like them saying they're going to give Sheploo a new look for all the marketing and trailers and posters, yada, yada....and he comes out looking like Justin Bieber. I wouldn't want that for Sheploo, either.

KILL THAT THOUGHT WITH FIRE! how could you possibly come up with that thought, you sick, sick man :happy:

Wouldn't work.. People would have a hard time seeing the difference between male and female defaults then...