1326 réponses à ce sujet

[DJRackham]

The Twilight God wrote...

To sum it up...

People voted for a blonde over all the non-blondes by a very large margin for no other reason than that the blonde is blonde. Therefore, those people are all racist. So we must hate blonde femshep, the poster girl for the neo-**** movement. The end.

A large percentage number of the people voting for the blonde femshep stated that they were voting more for the hair style and less for the actual color.

Edit: Minor rephrase of my original response.

Modifié par DJRackham, 03 août 2011 - 09:02 .

[czarnakuna]

 As a woman and a player I find it extremely difficult to identify myself with any game characters, for obvious reasons. 
But when I played ME it was IT! At last - a strong, charismatic female protagonist. The generic FemShep was perfect - a tough looking, badass woman. Not a plastic cute doll, a real woman soldier. As I played both parts I truly believed that this game is a step forward when it comes to representation of women in vidoe games. That the stereotype of categorising women by their physical apearance rather than their character, skills and abilities was, at lest in this game, abandoned.

All these barbie girl models are a step backwards. 

I am aware of the fact that this model is the choice of gamers, as well as I am aware that most of the voters were male. However, all of the doll Sheps presented in the survey were authored by your designers, Bioware.
Sad, but true. 

Modifié par czarnakuna, 03 août 2011 - 06:45 .

[Saberchic]

The first Shep I made was femShep, and she is blonde and tan.

Why? I was sick and tired of all the pale redheads or dead gothic looking femSheps that litter the internet. I wanted my femShep to look different.

[Arppis]

czarnakuna wrote...

 As a woman and a player I find it extremely difficult to identify myself with any game characters, for obvious reasons. 
But when I played ME it was IT! At last - a strong, charismatic female protagonist. The generic FemShep was perfect - a tough looking, badass woman. Not a plastic cute doll, a real woman soldier. As I played both parts I truly believed that this game is a step forward when it comes to representation of women in vidoe games. That the stereotype of categorising women by their physical apearance rather than their character, skills and abilities was, at lest in this game, abandoned.

This barbie girl is a step backwards. 

I am aware of the fact that this model is the choice of gamers, as well as I am aware that most of the voters were male. However, all of the doll Sheps presented in the survey were authored by your designers, Bioware.
Sad, but true. 

You are right, there shouldn't even be female Shepard on cover. That's the right direction?

[elessarz]

This is why you do not ask the masses for their opinion.

[Pulletlamer]

DJRackham wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

To sum it up...

People voted for a blonde over all the non-blondes by a very large margin for no other reason than that the blonde is blonde. Therefore, those people are all racist. So we must hate blonde femshep, the poster girl for the neo-**** movement. The end.

A large percentage of the people voting for the blonde femshep stated that they were voting more for the hair style and less for the actual color.

Link / source or that didn't happen.

I like your percentages taken out from nowhere. Oh you asked every person and did the percentage? Doubt it.

Also:
http://social.biowar...9/polls/22889/`

Modifié par Pulletlamer, 03 août 2011 - 06:49 .

[czarnakuna]

No Arppis, I was really happy to hear that they'll include FemShep in their marketing. As I've written, the generic ME1&2 model was perfect.

[Zenyxia]

Haters gonna hate.

[Arppis]

czarnakuna wrote...

No Arppis, I was really happy to hear that they'll include FemShep in their marketing. As I've written, the generic ME1&2 model was perfect.

Alright. But just saying, now female Shepard gets to be atleast in the special edition cover. That's a good thing for those who want more coverage for female Shepard. Most of you guys are doing your own female Shepard anyhows, just like I always do my own custom male Shepard.

Think positive.

[lady_v23]

Valcutio wrote...

KingNothing125 wrote...

What exactly makes her "combat barbie" besides the fact that she has blonde hair?

Anything? No? Didn't think so.

What exactly is cliche about blonde chicks anyway? Name a blonde female video game main character.

Here are some big-time female characters and their hair color...

Lara Croft, Tomb Raider, brunette.
Sarah Kerrigan, StarCraft, redhead.
Alyx Vance, Half-Life 2, raven-haired.
Chell, Portal, raven-haired.
Bayonetta, raven(demon)-haired.
Chun-Li, Street Fighter, raven-haired.
Morrigan, Dragon Age, raven-haired.
Leiliana, Dragon Age, redhead.
Miranda Lawson, Mass Effect, raven-haired.
Ashley Williams, Mass Effect, raven-haired.

That's a lot of black haired chicks, actually. Maybe FemShep #4 is actually cliche'd.

Yeah, I was actually going to make a post like this but was too lazy. I can't think of a single blonde female that is the main star of a video game. I think the closest one would be the blonde from Uncharted but she's just the sidekick of Drake. Buffy kinda counts but she's more of an iconic television character that had games based off of that.

I think it's great that Bioware is going to promote the FemSheps with a fair haired beauty. I say well done, Bioware.

you know...i think you forgot princess peach from mario:lol:

[robarcool]

What I would suggest is that they let us tweak the preset Shepards as well. I mean, if I want a custom Shepard, I would have to start from scratch. Instead, I could choose just one of the presets and just change only 1-2 features like hair color, eye color etc. That way, people can customize a preset they like except for a small feature or two.

[czarnakuna]

Arppis, I was totally positive about female Shep being displayed like that, but the way it is done, at least for me, defies the entire idea of the first non-sexist female protagonist that Shepard is.

But perhaps it is me, maybe I was too enthusiastic about the gender equality thing in ME, that's why my expectations were so high when it comes to FemShep. I really believed that this is it, that ME will not have that sexist crap that's everywhere else, especially in games.

Well, you never stop hoping for the better, right?

[Nozybidaj]

czarnakuna wrote...
......But when I played ME it was IT! At last - a strong, charismatic female protagonist. ...... the stereotype of categorising women by their physical apearance rather than their character, skills and abilities was, at lest in this game, abandoned.

All these barbie girl models are a step backwards. ....

I wasn't aware that the model change also included making femShep hold her gun like a sissy-girl and speak with a valley girl accent.  I must have missed that part of the announcement.

[100k]

:alien:

I've already voiced my opinions on why I'm fine with whatever femShep looks like, but I'll say it again: in the end, it doesn't really solve BW's problem of attracting a new audience.

What Bioware needs to do to really attract female gamers is release a trailer like this. More women will buy a game that displays a level of customization and micromanagement. Unlike men (generally speaking) the ability to make a character that is unique to the woman it corresponds with will be very attractive to most *casual* females.

So why (in my opinion) won't the new femShep attract as many new female players as BW thinks it will? Because there is a distinct difference in a game with a female protagonist, and a game that appeals to women in general.

Heavenly Sword, Metroid, Lara Croft, Beyond Good and Evil, WET, FF X2, etc etc all have female leads. But that doesn't make them as attractive to women as men. They all deliver visual standards of how women should look, dress, and act (sometimes with unforgiving camera angles). And for all of these games (except Beyond Good and Evil), they still romanticize masculinity -- simply by dressing it up in female form. We don't consciously think about these things, but we do accept them.

Women like choices. Games like Sims, Farmville, and Cityville are very popular with the ladies. They offer a level of personalization that men (typically) don't demand in their games.

If Bioware showed a trailer like The Many Faces of Femshep -- leading into the new standard femShep model, that would attract a lot of new women to the franchise. Women would see that Mass Effect has more to offer than simply blow-sh!t-up-and-look-cool. It offers women choice. Choices in clothing. Choices in weapons. Choices in romances. Choices in dialogue.

You can dress Samus Aran in 50 lbs of armor and have her shoot aliens. But at the end of the day, she's just a merc killing stuff to your average casual gamer (who doesn't go onto gaming forums, look at reviews, and makes purchases on cover value).

You can make Lara Croft more vulnerable and less blatantly sexual by covering up her legs, giving her a pick axe, and smothering her face with dirt. But at the end of the day, the title "Tomb Raider" still brings to mind the busty sexy cave explorer from the 90s.

But think about what could be accomplished with femShepard, a character that a woman could tailor to her own preference.

:)

Modifié par 100k, 03 août 2011 - 07:13 .

[MacCready]

EriRae wrote...

I don't get why there is so much heat over a blonde shep. It's a face on a box, that's it. We all have our own vision of what she "should" look like, so just play that vision in your game.

The reason people are getting upset is nothing to do with the box cover art, it's going a bit deeper than that. The whole competition was a bad idea as it was encouraging a popularity contest over what is considered the best human aesthetic. And the winner was typically aryan in nature, especially as it beat various ethnicities or even just natural hair and eye colour. The anger people are exhibiting towards this choice isn't even over blondes per se (the stereotype that they're thick is an ignorant myth all of its own) its this notion that white skinned fair hair is the superior design and any other variant of human skin/hair/eye colour is inferior.

Frankly, I don't know why Bioware bothered with a default Shepard in the first place as they gave the player the chance to create their own definitive Shep whether they be gay,straight, black, white, man or woman from the beginning. If it was to depict someone in the trailers then they should have just made a male and female version and only show Shep with their helmet on. That way the player can project whatever preferred Shepard they can relate to.

This sort of marketing stunt was only ever going to attract the ire of people who feel that they're race or features are not being represented and are considered lesser than the norm.

[czarnakuna]

Well, 100k, I don't know what all the women players in the world want, but as a woman player i definetely do not feel any urge to play neither sims, farmville nor cityville. I do not want to dress my characters in pretty clothes and walk around on high heels (as much as I am aware some of male players would like to see that).

I do want to "blow-sh!t-up-and-look-cool". And I want to do it as a kick ass real woman character, not a barbie girl.

That's all:)

[Xeranx]

Pulletlamer wrote...

DJRackham wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

To sum it up...

People voted for a blonde over all the non-blondes by a very large margin for no other reason than that the blonde is blonde. Therefore, those people are all racist. So we must hate blonde femshep, the poster girl for the neo-**** movement. The end.

A large percentage of the people voting for the blonde femshep stated that they were voting more for the hair style and less for the actual color.

Link / source or that didn't happen.

I like your percentages taken out from nowhere. Oh you asked every person and did the percentage? Doubt it.

Also:
http://social.biowar...9/polls/22889/`

Go through the facebook listing and you'll see it.  If you tried to keep up with it when the poll was first made then you'd see the various responses indicating Shepard's hair being a deciding factor rather than Shepard herself.  I don't have a problem with practicality (in fact I championed it in opposition to Ashley's redesign), but the responses were clear.  If you don't want to look at it (I mean it's a long list anyway) that's fine, but don't try to act as if people are pulling this out of nowhere considering there are more than DJRackham and myself that have acknowledged it on these boards.

Arppis wrote...

You are right, there shouldn't even be female Shepard on cover. That's the right direction? 

That's the direction you want to imply people are going?  It's wholly wrong and you know it.  It was the developers who chose to redesign female Shepard.  They should have done it and called it a day.  They didn't.  They opened it up to the fanbase to decide.  Why do that when they already have a default female Shepard in the creator?  A female Shepard that is always slightly changed when you decide to customize your own?  Also, as I mentioned before, this vote opens up a huge can of worms when discussing representation of anything other than a caucasian hero.  They should have done what they wanted as they did with the Vanderloo Shepard and that would have been it. 

Now is that the negative response you're trying to imply that others are pushing for?  Obviously it's not.

[Arppis]

Xeranx wrote...

Pulletlamer wrote...

DJRackham wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

To sum it up...

People voted for a blonde over all the non-blondes by a very large margin for no other reason than that the blonde is blonde. Therefore, those people are all racist. So we must hate blonde femshep, the poster girl for the neo-**** movement. The end.

A large percentage of the people voting for the blonde femshep stated that they were voting more for the hair style and less for the actual color.

Link / source or that didn't happen.

I like your percentages taken out from nowhere. Oh you asked every person and did the percentage? Doubt it.

Also:
http://social.biowar...9/polls/22889/`

Go through the facebook listing and you'll see it.  If you tried to keep up with it when the poll was first made then you'd see the various responses indicating Shepard's hair being a deciding factor rather than Shepard herself.  I don't have a problem with practicality (in fact I championed it in opposition to Ashley's redesign), but the responses were clear.  If you don't want to look at it (I mean it's a long list anyway) that's fine, but don't try to act as if people are pulling this out of nowhere considering there are more than DJRackham and myself that have acknowledged it on these boards.

Arppis wrote...

You are right, there shouldn't even be female Shepard on cover. That's the right direction? 

That's the direction you want to imply people are going?  It's wholly wrong and you know it.  It was the developers who chose to redesign female Shepard.  They should have done it and called it a day.  They didn't.  They opened it up to the fanbase to decide.  Why do that when they already have a default female Shepard in the creator?  A female Shepard that is always slightly changed when you decide to customize your own?  Also, as I mentioned before, this vote opens up a huge can of worms when discussing representation of anything other than a caucasian hero.  They should have done what they wanted as they did with the Vanderloo Shepard and that would have been it. 

Now is that the negative response you're trying to imply that others are pushing for?  Obviously it's not.

I still think it's nice that people got to vote for their favourite. They would have gone uprise no matter what. Plus, now we got one more blonde to the Mass Effect universe. That is always a win.

czarnakuna wrote...

Well, 100k, I don't know what all the
women players in the world want, but as a woman player i definetely do
not feel any urge to play neither sims, farmville nor cityville. I do
not want to dress my characters in pretty clothes and walk around on
high heels (as much as I am aware some of male players would like to see
that).

I do want to "blow-sh!t-up-and-look-cool". And I want to do it as a kick ass real woman character, not a barbie girl.

That's all:)

She is a pretty woman with long hair, that's right. But doesn't make her appearance "sexist", imo. Male characters are usualy made to appeal too, it's not just female characters. Now the character is just showing that pretty blondes can have attitude and kick ass too.

Modifié par Arppis, 03 août 2011 - 07:41 .

[Uszi]

LPPrince wrote...




Again, looking at that, I don't see it. It being how Blondie can't be taken seriously as Commander Shepard.

Its like people are complaining for the sake of complaining.

Yeah I was gonna post this, but I'm glad someone beat me to it.

In regards to the penny arcade comic, I liked what Jerry wrote about it, as well:

When it comes to sci-fi heroines, it’s sort of hard to beat Lieutenant Ellen Ripley - but she’s [Femshep#5] got good company. Starbuck comes to mind, but in the game context Samus Aran will always rule the roost. Not the new codependent weirdo Samus, I mean the old hard-ass who deigns to remove her helmet when and only when she has obliterated every lifeform on the crust of that world. She also has a symmetrical body and blonde hair, which is unfortunate - she might otherwise have been valid, interesting, or powerful.

Link.

I'm not sure I see the problem folks.  I liked #1 alot, but I'm not upset at all the #5 won.   Maybe it's because #1 wasn't close to winning at all?  But then again, in all of the polls everywhere #5 won by a large margin.  If you're not a fan, just make your own custom femshep?  I thought I read somewhere that the old Jane Shepard would be available as one of the preset customs.

In short, it sound like people just need to deal with it.  <_<

Modifié par Uszi, 03 août 2011 - 07:41 .

[BDelacroix]

I don't care about the hair color but that image makes her look like an effiminate male.

[Pulletlamer]

Xeranx wrote...

Pulletlamer wrote...

DJRackham wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

To sum it up...

People voted for a blonde over all the non-blondes by a very large margin for no other reason than that the blonde is blonde. Therefore, those people are all racist. So we must hate blonde femshep, the poster girl for the neo-**** movement. The end.

A large percentage of the people voting for the blonde femshep stated that they were voting more for the hair style and less for the actual color.

Link / source or that didn't happen.

I like your percentages taken out from nowhere. Oh you asked every person and did the percentage? Doubt it.

Also:
http://social.biowar...9/polls/22889/`

Go through the facebook listing and you'll see it.  If you tried to keep up with it when the poll was first made then you'd see the various responses indicating Shepard's hair being a deciding factor rather than Shepard herself.  I don't have a problem with practicality (in fact I championed it in opposition to Ashley's redesign), but the responses were clear.  If you don't want to look at it (I mean it's a long list anyway) that's fine, but don't try to act as if people are pulling this out of nowhere considering there are more than DJRackham and myself that have acknowledged it on these boards.

I actually followed up every once in a while. There's a lot of people saying that they wouldn't mind her with another color, but still there's people defending the blonde hair too.

It's just hypocrital to say "a large percentage voted for the hair style" as a fact, based on nothing besides some of the comments you read on Facebook, as if you actually did research. There's people of all opinions.

Also if only the hair style was the thing they'd like they porbably would've thought two times before voting her.

I actually base my response on what people on the forums have voted on the poll I posted earlier:
http://social.biowar...9/polls/22889/`

Modifié par Pulletlamer, 03 août 2011 - 07:56 .

[LPPrince]

Uszi wrote...

LPPrince wrote...




Again, looking at that, I don't see it. It being how Blondie can't be taken seriously as Commander Shepard.

Its like people are complaining for the sake of complaining.

In short, it sound like people just need to deal with it.  <_<

Hence the sigs. Ha.

[Clara Shepard]

fibchopkin wrote...

I didn't hate the looks of the character, (Here's the selection, for anyone who hasn't already seen it.) and I thought it was pretty cool that Bioware let the fans help pick the design, but I can't help feeling just a tad disappointed in us, the community.  Really guys?*  They offered us one Combat Barbie amid 6 women (all of whom seemed to look a lot younger than shep's 29-31 yrs depending on how you view the timeline, but hey, that's Hollywood baby) and we went with the Barbie?  Granted, the tousled hairdo was cool and seemed to fit the Shep persona, and most of us femShepers will probably continue using our custom designs anyway, but it's still a small blow to see a gaming company struggling to make strides in acceptance and inclusiveness feature a typical and cliched version of feminine strength and heroism.  Thanks for trying Bioware, but apparantly, we're not ready for that kind of responsibility yet.  Maybe you should've started us off with a goldfish, saw how we did with that, and went from there.
  Then again... maybe I'm just bitter that my choice was shot down...


*guys is being used here to encompass all genders, fyi 

I chose the blond because she was the closest to my shep, and I really didn't even want blond, I wanted a brunette long haired woman who looked about 30 not 16 but she was the closest DX

Modifié par Clara Shepard, 03 août 2011 - 08:14 .

[100k]

czarnakuna wrote...

Well, 100k, I don't know what all the women players in the world want, but as a woman player i definetely do not feel any urge to play neither sims, farmville nor cityville. I do not want to dress my characters in pretty clothes and walk around on high heels (as much as I am aware some of male players would like to see that).

I do want to "blow-sh!t-up-and-look-cool". And I want to do it as a kick ass real woman character, not a barbie girl.

That's all:)

And I fully recognize, respect, and understand that. But your average *casual* gamer (female) doesn't. How do I know this? I can look at what the "average" female gamer plays.

The Many Faces of FemShep trailer isn't a barbie girl trailer. It doesn't portray women as weak. I don't think asking for a trailer that shows how you can customize a femShep, then put her into play is ridiculous or sexist. 

[Xeranx]

Pulletlamer wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

Pulletlamer wrote...

DJRackham wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

To sum it up...

People voted for a blonde over all the non-blondes by a very large margin for no other reason than that the blonde is blonde. Therefore, those people are all racist. So we must hate blonde femshep, the poster girl for the neo-**** movement. The end.

A large percentage of the people voting for the blonde femshep stated that they were voting more for the hair style and less for the actual color.

Link / source or that didn't happen.

I like your percentages taken out from nowhere. Oh you asked every person and did the percentage? Doubt it.

Also:
http://social.biowar...9/polls/22889/`

Go through the facebook listing and you'll see it.  If you tried to keep up with it when the poll was first made then you'd see the various responses indicating Shepard's hair being a deciding factor rather than Shepard herself.  I don't have a problem with practicality (in fact I championed it in opposition to Ashley's redesign), but the responses were clear.  If you don't want to look at it (I mean it's a long list anyway) that's fine, but don't try to act as if people are pulling this out of nowhere considering there are more than DJRackham and myself that have acknowledged it on these boards.

I actually followed up every once in a while. There's a lot of people saying that they wouldn't mind her with another color, but still there's people defending the blonde hair too.

It's just hypocrital to say "a large percentage voted for the hair style" as a fact, based on nothing besides some of the comments you read on Facebook, as if you actually did research. There's people of all opinions.

Also if only the hair style was the thing they'd like they porbably would've thought two times before voting her.

I actually base my response on what people on the forums have voted on the poll I posted earlier:
http://social.biowar...9/polls/22889/`

I'm probably missing where it's hypocritical when it would probably be more apt to declare it false, but how is it wrong to make a statement (fact or otherwise) based on the actual poll that's being utilized to make a decision?  The poll on BSN wasn't made by Bioware.  It was done by a poster the same as you or me.  The poll on Facebook, however, was made by Bioware on their own page which makes it more important than any poll on BSN.  If someone uses information from the offical poll to make a case there's no possible way that anyone should be trying to illustrate that it's the wrong move to make.

And I see that you never said that hair style wasn't a deciding factor for people.  You just said they probably would have throught two times before voting on her, but it's there several times in black and white print.  I don't understand how you can ignore that.  Your statement alludes the idea that people didn't actually think when voting for #5 when I'm sure more than enough will tell you they did.

In any case, even if saying a large percentage is wrong, it is not wrong to believe that others have made the choice considering the many messages that clearly make the statement of hair style being a deciding factor,and messages that call on 4 and 6 for having unfavorable hair styles.