1326 réponses à ce sujet

[Jenova65]

GunMoth wrote...

Kitteh303 wrote...

Well, it's not all bad. I like the shape of her face and the facial features in general. If, for whatever reason, I couldn't import my custom and I was forced to start with the default, I'd just change her hair/eye color. I have nothing against blondes, mind you. I just don't "see" Shep as being blonde.

Moar lurking nao

That still implies that blonde is a personality trait. D;

There is a certain ironic poetry to all the stupid judgements about blondes in this thread, no? 
And they call us dumb.... 
Though to be fair, I don't think this ^ poster was being rude, just that their head canon of Shepard is not blonde....
All my Shepards, all my wardens and all my Hawkes are blonde (and btw, I never once moaned about Hawke being brunette.... cos you know........ character creator.... ) FWIW, I am not the least bit interested in default Hawke I think she is kind of funny looking. And NO ONE had a problem with dark haired Hawke either... 
It all just feels a bit......... rude and petty.... Jealousy sure is not attractive on anyone 

[Jenova65]

The PLC wrote...

34 pages consisting of whining, fighting and people telling Bioware how to design their characters. Incredible!
edit: make that 35!

That was your fault 

[Xeranx]

1136342t54 wrote...

Having developers use various ethnicities for main characters for the sake of diversity is almost just as bad as soley using caucasian protaganists. Not really saying you want that but it can happen. GTA does actually count when it comes to its protagonists. Just because they aren't some space marine saving humanity doesn't discount the characters.

Those characters have to go threw hell to take down all the ****s who have tried to hurt them and the people they love. Then they become rich and a little powerful. In a way the early GTA games are pretty much using the American dream as the objective but then GTA IV came along and pretty much gave you characters who are deeper and more grey in their morals.

I won't say most games doesn't have caucasian protaganists because that really depends on the types of games usually. FPS games have the most caucasian protagonists, RPGs vary wildly, and eastern games usually have more asian protagonists that half the time look very white.

I could say honestly that half of the games I own pretty much have different characters who either caucasian but not american or different color. Those games I like and I usually don't pay much attention to whether or not my character is caucasian or not. Well that's mostly because I can change my character's appearance in a few of my games lol.

I don't discount GTA's protagonists because of what they have to go through.  I discount them because largely they're not positive depictions of a hero.  They don't have to be a space marine.  I've not come across a protagonist of color that could be the same person that Max Payne is: a good cop who's not on the take and finds his world crumbling around him due to an investigation he was on - a victim of circumstance.  Largely protagonists of color are already deep into illegalities that allow developers to show that they do have a heart.  But what does it matter that CJ is the hero of GTA: San Andreas and succeeds in making it if he is still a gangbanger in the end?

Putting up various ethnicities just for the sake of diversity has to be done at some point otherwise it will take what seems like forever to get there.

[Art3m]

femShep lovers, just relax and go to read about 95% rule. And, won't you just all invent or continue your own models?

[Evilatem]

www.facebook.com/pages/Save-the-Default-FemShep-for-ME3/196825517039405

Modifié par Evilatem, 05 août 2011 - 08:02 .

[Fata Morgana]

Whacka wrote...
Wait, what?!

I... didn't know that. After who was Sheploo modelled?

This guy:





His name is Mark Vanderloo

Modifié par Fata Morgana, 05 août 2011 - 08:07 .

[didymos1120]

Evilatem wrote...

www.facebook.com/pages/Save-the-Default-FemShep-for-ME3/196825517039405

She's still going to be one of the presets. Or is that not good enough?

[Xeranx]

Jedi31293 wrote...

Perhaps your selection did not win the vote, OP, because no one wants Rihanna running around saving the galaxy. I thought all of the FemShep choices looked pretty horrible overall, and I actually prefer the generic default FemShep from the previous two games. The winner of the vote in no way looks like "Barbie". Just because she's blonde does not instantly make her a generic blonde Barbie figure. In fact, she looks almost scary. I would not want to face that FemShep in a game of chess, let alone a galactic battle for the universe.

She looks like Barbie about as much as #4 looks like Rhianna.

Modifié par Xeranx, 05 août 2011 - 08:06 .

[GunMoth]

The PLC wrote...

34 pages consisting of whining, fighting and people telling Bioware how to design their characters. Incredible!
edit: make that 35!

"An entitled ****? Have you ever considered the fact that the majority of Mass Effect players are dudes, and that 4/5 of these people play as Maleshep (according to Casey Hudson)? Of course the game is going to be marketed towards dudes! While the option to play as a female is nice, most people wouldn't care if Bioware took out that option. You should be more than satisfied with having the option to begin with."  -- You


Back to this - being someone who plays videogames have you ever thought of yourself as a minority ? Have you ever had to struggle to be recognized by your piers because of ethnicity, gender or sexual preference? This issue goes wayyy beyond features in a video game and steps into social territory. Its why people get so touchy about this subject and its why I will continue to debate in this discussion for as long as I can. That is how important this is to me. I have been playing Baulder's Gate / other RPGs that have offered me the choice to play as a female since I was in elementary school. Even for males, having the ability to play as your gender/the opposite sex allows you to immerse yourself into the narrative of the game. 

18% of your fanbase is actually a HUGGGGE number. If you lost 10% of your sales you'd be in trouble. Especially since the cost of developing a game is absolutely ridiculous.  


So my point is, your argument is based fear of change or lack of quality because of catering to different audiences. But that has ALWAYS been Bioware's porogotive. If the discussion truly does not interest you, go actually contribute elsewhere. 

[Jenova65]

didymos1120 wrote...

Evilatem wrote...

www.facebook.com/pages/Save-the-Default-FemShep-for-ME3/196825517039405

She's still going to be one of the presets. Or is that not good enough?

NO. Because that would require the ability to be reasonable.... 

[Fata Morgana]

The PLC wrote...

An entitled ****? Have you ever considered the fact that the majority of Mass Effect players are dudes, and that 4/5 of these people play as Maleshep (according to Casey Hudson)? Of course the game is going to be marketed towards dudes! While the option to play as a female is nice, most people wouldn't care if Bioware took out that option. You should be more than satisfied with having the option to begin with. 

1) Did you realize that women represent over 50% of the population? 2) Did you ever consider that if videogames in general made more of an effort to cater to women, then a larger percentage of women would play videogames?

This is what is meant by 'entitled'.  Because Video games, comic books, film, etc. in the US cater mostly to males, ignorant males such as yourself assume that this is the way it's supposed to be and anyone who complains is just being whiney.  BULL****.

Take a look at the comic industry in Japan, as a counter argument. Japan has just as many comics that cater to women as it has comics that cater to men; as a result, far more women and young girls read comics in Japan than do ladies in the US. 

[flexxdk]

Jedi31293 wrote...

Perhaps your selection did not win the vote, OP, because no one wants Rihanna running around saving the galaxy.

You know, Rihanna was the first person that came to mind when I saw #4.

Anyway, I thought that #4 looked too much like Rihanna and #6 somehow looked like Cleopatra in my mind.

Fata Morgana wrote...

Whacka wrote...
Wait, what?!

I... didn't know that. After who was Sheploo modelled?

This guy:

*snip*

*snip*

His name is Mark Vanderloo

I know...

Makes me wonder if he can do Sheploo's rape-face too.

Modifié par Whacka, 05 août 2011 - 08:17 .

[Rockworm503]

JakeMacDon wrote...

The blonde femshep wins - or is winning?  Oy.  Here we go...

Well, then, just to keep it fair, the ManShep should be changed to blonde for equality's sake.  If the saviours of the galaxy have to be officially Nordically white, then, by hell and damnation, they should be the absolute whitest they can possibly be.  Make them not just Swedish, but UberSwede, Maximum Death's Head Whiteness, second language German.

What's the problem with blondes?  Well, many see them as just that - the whitest of white people.  There was a major European war to have that be the standard, after all - killed fifty million people.  "Aryan" something something...

Personally, I'm partial to redheads meself, they are absolutely sure-as-shoot'n under-represented as heroines.  Blondes are a friggin' dime-a-dozen, and boring as hell, to be completely honest, which I suspect is whence the honest objections actually are coming - at least from the thoughtful folks.

Do I want a blonde femshep?  Naw.  I was kinda hoping Bioware and its fans would try and avoid cliches, but most people live for them (and substitute them for actual thinking, but that's an argument for a different forum), so I'll just have to hope the character creation in the game is more robust and just change my FemShep to a ginger and go from there.

No muss, no fuss.

Nice didn't even bother reading anything in this thread did you?
good job attempting to make your personal hair color into a political statement but yours lost.

[Fata Morgana]

 Here are more tarted up pictures of Vanderloo, for those who think that the new FemShep is somehow too tarted up.

[GunMoth]

@Whacka - Probably not. Rana (the woman who is Morinth/Samara's face model) has a different smile than Samara/Morinth does in game. :3

[Fata Morgana]

Whacka wrote...

Makes me wonder if he can do Sheploo's rape-face too.

[GunMoth]

Fata Morgana wrote...

The PLC wrote...

An entitled ****? Have you ever considered the fact that the majority of Mass Effect players are dudes, and that 4/5 of these people play as Maleshep (according to Casey Hudson)? Of course the game is going to be marketed towards dudes! While the option to play as a female is nice, most people wouldn't care if Bioware took out that option. You should be more than satisfied with having the option to begin with. 

1) Did you realize that women represent over 50% of the population? 2) Did you ever consider that if videogames in general made more of an effort to cater to women, then a larger percentage of women would play videogames?

This is what is meant by 'entitled'.  Because Video games, comic books, film, etc. in the US cater mostly to males, ignorant males such as yourself assume that this is the way it's supposed to be and anyone who complains is just being whiney.  BULL****.

Take a look at the comic industry in Japan, as a counter argument. Japan has just as many comics that cater to women as it has comics that cater to men; as a result, far more women and young girls read comics in Japan than do ladies in the US. 

FUNFACT: The cowboy bebop manga is under the genre of manga that caters to girls.  
Edit and yes the manga came before the animated series. 

Modifié par GunMoth, 05 août 2011 - 08:25 .

[Raanz]

GunMoth wrote...
Back to this - being someone who plays videogames have you ever thought of yourself as a minority ? Have you ever had to struggle to be recognized by your piers because of ethnicity, gender or sexual preference? This issue goes wayyy beyond features in a video game and steps into social territory. Its why people get so touchy about this subject and its why I will continue to debate in this discussion for as long as I can. That is how important this is to me. I have been playing Baulder's Gate / other RPGs that have offered me the choice to play as a female since I was in elementary school. Even for males, having the ability to play as your gender/the opposite sex allows you to immerse yourself into the narrative of the game. 

I had my response to a similar post you had in the other thread that got locked....I tried posting but it seems it was closed as I was typing it.

Do you know what bothers me about your argument?  That you really believe that Bioware is some socially conscious entity doing a great service by including an image of a female Shepard on the back of a CE tin, and that the fans pushed their agenda and got it done.  "Equality in the gaming industry!!!"

I guess if it makes you feel better, you can tell yourself that, but it's about money.  With minimal effort, Bioware will sell a few more CE versions of ME3, they will make a small percentage of their gaming community happy, and they will come off looking like champions for social change in gaming (by a select few).  It's win-win for them.

Let me list some really good computer game main characters, hell some are even protagonists:

• Lara Croft
• Nariko (my fav of all time)
• Samus
• Zoe
• Alyx
• Sheva

I could go on and on, but I will spare you.

When the game market starts to indicate a trend towards female protagonists as a more popular alternative, you can bet that the development houses will start producing them.    It's not about sexism, or persecution, it's about MONEY.

In an effort to stay on topic with the thread, I say if the "fans" voted for a blond Shepard, regardless if it was here, or on Facebook, I saw go with it.   Why in the hell would it matter when you can customize the character anyway?  I blame the anonymity of the interweb!

[Rockworm503]

Evilatem wrote...

www.facebook.com/pages/Save-the-Default-FemShep-for-ME3/196825517039405

OMG that page is pathetic.
Their using the PC gamer article to make it about politics.  Damn the butthurt over a simple hair color is astounding.

[Fata Morgana]

Raanz, of course it's about money. The problem is, that for reasons I've never been able to understand, much of the entertainment industry (not just video game developers) just don't seem to understand that there's this huge untapped market of ladies out there, just waiting to give their money to a business that caters to them. Why ignore such a large part of the population?

Look at how well My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic is doing. Write a good show, gear it towards women, and even guys will like it. This is not rocket science, yet popular media is stuck in this "only cater to men" rutt.

Just look at the recent bru-ha-ha at comic con, where someone pointed out to DC that 95% of their authors were guys, and DC didn't even try to come up with a counter-argument, they just basically said 'suck it up'! There's just no logical reason to avoid catering to a huge business market, aside from blatant sexism (or racism. or generally stupidity).

Modifié par Fata Morgana, 05 août 2011 - 08:31 .

[GunMoth]

Raanz wrote...

GunMoth wrote...
Back to this - being someone who plays videogames have you ever thought of yourself as a minority ? Have you ever had to struggle to be recognized by your piers because of ethnicity, gender or sexual preference? This issue goes wayyy beyond features in a video game and steps into social territory. Its why people get so touchy about this subject and its why I will continue to debate in this discussion for as long as I can. That is how important this is to me. I have been playing Baulder's Gate / other RPGs that have offered me the choice to play as a female since I was in elementary school. Even for males, having the ability to play as your gender/the opposite sex allows you to immerse yourself into the narrative of the game. 

I had my response to a similar post you had in the other thread that got locked....I tried posting but it seems it was closed as I was typing it.

Do you know what bothers me about your argument?  That you really believe that Bioware is some socially conscious entity doing a great service by including an image of a female Shepard on the back of a CE tin, and that the fans pushed their agenda and got it done.  "Equality in the gaming industry!!!"

I guess if it makes you feel better, you can tell yourself that, but it's about money.  With minimal effort, Bioware will sell a few more CE versions of ME3, they will make a small percentage of their gaming community happy, and they will come off looking like champions for social change in gaming (by a select few).  It's win-win for them.

Let me list some really good computer game main characters, hell some are even protagonists:

• Lara Croft
• Nariko (my fav of all time)
• Samus
• Zoe
• Alyx
• Sheva

I could go on and on, but I will spare you.

When the game market starts to indicate a trend towards female protagonists as a more popular alternative, you can bet that the development houses will start producing them.    It's not about sexism, or persecution, it's about MONEY.

In an effort to stay on topic with the thread, I say if the "fans" voted for a blond Shepard, regardless if it was here, or on Facebook, I saw go with it.   Why in the hell would it matter when you can customize the character anyway?  I blame the anonymity of the interweb!

I never said that they are doing a great service to the public image of the female. 
I also had a discussion about the way the market works. Go back to the locked thread and read my discussion with the other-- nevermind. I'll just post it.

"And yes, that's how marketing works. They wouldn't release content that is unmarketable to an audience that doesn't exist. That's why online petitions and communities are so important. That's why females/people who play as females need to voice their opinions more. Its why conversations like this are important.  

Saying that nobody can change anything - from any perspective - is pessimistic. Even if Bioware is only after our money, I at least want them to make my dollar worth while. Most developers wouldn't even bother doing something like this once they know they got their audience hooked. But Bioware keeps pushing to try new things and stay progressive with their choices. 
The relationship of consumers and the media isn't as dictating as you make it out to be.

If you don't like it - don't buy it. The unfortunate truth for the entertainment / food / any industry that is focused on exchanging money for goods is that they NEED their consumers. The difference between Bioware and companies like - say Mcdonalds (who are trying to change their marketing appearance to appeal to people who are trying to be more health conscious) is that Bioware is actually (like I said in my last post) far more progressive than most mainstream developers out there. "


The way that I view this is that the female audience should be taking social progress one step at a time. Whether you want to realize it or not, this is social from Bioware's perspective as well. They have female developers. The concept artists went to ask female co-workers for their opinion on the female LIs. The money they are receiving comes from the way they interact/treat their audience. 

To me, getting Shepard on the CE box, getting a revamp in textures or graphics, and having the developers attention is far more important than the color of her hair or if she is ugly/pretty. This is a victory and people should be excited about it. The fact that we have users going around saying that females should just be happy they're even included - even if the quality of their experience is **** (this goes beyond cosmetics and goes into animation and clipping issues) drives me absolutely insane. 

Modifié par GunMoth, 05 août 2011 - 08:34 .

[GunMoth]

Also, playing as a fully fleshed out female protagonist is entirely different than playing a blank slate character in an RPG. :/ Using that as an example is terrible. Especially when those females haven't helped the female image either.

EDIT: I am aware that there are plenty of good females though.
As hypersexualized as bayonetta is - the devs did a good job writing her character. She shows a maternal side not seen often in female characters. 
Then there's Heather from Silent Hill 3 etc. etc. 

Modifié par GunMoth, 05 août 2011 - 08:59 .

[Pulletlamer]

Fata Morgana wrote...

Sorry had to quote that, couldn't resist.

The blonde Mark Vanderloo looks very good in that picture.

[wicked117]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Evilatem wrote...

www.facebook.com/pages/Save-the-Default-FemShep-for-ME3/196825517039405

OMG that page is pathetic.
Their using the PC gamer article to make it about politics.  Damn the butthurt over a simple hair color is astounding.

I could not agree with you more Rock. When I saw that I did a face palm. The out cry against blonde FemShep is getting redonkulous (yes I said redonkulous because rediculous just doesn't cut it). I can understand voicing your disappointment but the majority of the complaints have turned into basicly a temper tantrum