1326 réponses à ce sujet

[didymos1120]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Evilatem wrote...

www.facebook.com/pages/Save-the-Default-FemShep-for-ME3/196825517039405

OMG that page is pathetic.
Their using the PC gamer article to make it about politics.  Damn the butthurt over a simple hair color is astounding.

I especially love how there are comments from the "real" Femshep.  Such as:

The real me has scars. Because the real me has actually *seen* battle, and partaken of it. The real me also does not spend forever on her hair and makeup.

"The real me"?  Spare me, o random person cosplaying on the internets.

[1136342t54_]

Xeranx wrote...

I don't discount GTA's protagonists because of what they have to go through.  I discount them because largely they're not positive depictions of a hero.  They don't have to be a space marine.  I've not come across a protagonist of color that could be the same person that Max Payne is: a good cop who's not on the take and finds his world crumbling around him due to an investigation he was on - a victim of circumstance.  Largely protagonists of color are already deep into illegalities that allow developers to show that they do have a heart.  But what does it matter that CJ is the hero of GTA: San Andreas and succeeds in making it if he is still a gangbanger in the end?

Many GTA protagonists are forced into the life they lived. CJ was born into it and had no choice but to fight and kill enemy gang members so that his family can live and they can keep the drugs of the streets. Hell when he came back his main mission was to make sure his friends and family are safe and kill the sons of ****es who killed his mother. Niko was driven by revenge and his story is basically what happens when revenge is taken to far and you may superficially win but you lose more than you gain. I like those types of characters over the same old heroes and now a days people are going for the anti-hero.

Putting up various ethnicities just for the sake of diversity has to be done at some point otherwise it will take what seems like forever to get there.

If you start doing that then that's not good at all. I'd rather the developers of any game make a character on how it fits the story best. Making Master Chief black or white really doesn't matter much to me since his character doesn't rely on ethnicity but if you got some Italian mobster as a main character and made him hispanic just because well that doesn't make sense.

[Jenova65]

@didymos1120... Every comment you make on this thread makes me like you even without the avatar

Modifié par Jenova65, 05 août 2011 - 09:07 .

[Raanz]

@Fata
I'm willing to bet that if there is a huge, untapped market of female gamers out there, looking for games that focus on female heroes, that eventually it will happen. It happens now. In today's gaming industry, money talks. The cost of producing a AAA title is enormous so the means to recoup their cost is always a concern.
Product branding is a very important part of developing a successful title. Without it, you are hamstrung from the beginning. Mass Effect (each title) has sold over 2 million copies, and that was without promoting a female Shepard. I know there are women out there that love the series, and love to play a female Shepard (I bet there are some that like to play male Shepard as well), but I doubt that the numbers would increase two fold if a female Shepard was part of the original brand. I could be wrong, I have been wrong many times before, but the numbers just don't play out that way. As good as ME is, it's not a 4-5 million unit seller. Most of those games are multiplayer games.

@GunMoth
Yes, I read your post over in the other thread, but thanks for reposting.
Does Bioware try new things? Of course they do. You have to in order reach new customer bases, which in turn helps maintain and expand your current customer base.
I still don't understand why you think they are more progressive. They started a game franchise staring a male protagonist. They continued the same branding all the way through the series, adding a female image to a CE version of the 3rd and final installment of the game. This took little effort, little money, and they stand to make some extra money from it. If by progressive you mean they made a business decision that will increase their revenue by a small percentage, then ok, they are progressive. I can say without a doubt in my mind, that if it was going to cost them an exuberant amount of money to do, and they figured their return would be minimal, they wouldn't be doing it.

Also, to address your last comment on females that haven't helped the female image...I disagree. Lara Croft is portrayed as a smart, adventurous female that can take care of herself, get the job done, and kick some ass on the way. Does it bother you that they made her look good doing it? (I would argue that Lara didn't look so hot in the very first Tomb Raider game )
Nariko has the same attributes as any other tough lead character, she just happens to be female. So I am not sure what the problem is.

[WidowMaker9394]

I voted for the blonde one just because I wanted to see if people really could get butthurt over a thing as trivial like this.

The internet did not disappoint.

[nitefyre410]

would I have prefered say a brunette or darker haired or even a darker stone Fem Shephard - Yes

Am I raging against the machine and cancelling my ME 3 reservation anytime sooo - HA, you must be trippin... F**K NO!

[1136342t54_]

Now that I think about I don't want another brunette shepard. Mass Effect has too many brunettes and literally no blondes other than Kahlee. Screw it Shepard #5 for the win lol.

[GunMoth]

Raanz wrote...

@Fata
I'm willing to bet that if there is a huge, untapped market of female gamers out there, looking for games that focus on female heroes, that eventually it will happen. It happens now. In today's gaming industry, money talks. The cost of producing a AAA title is enormous so the means to recoup their cost is always a concern.
Product branding is a very important part of developing a successful title. Without it, you are hamstrung from the beginning. Mass Effect (each title) has sold over 2 million copies, and that was without promoting a female Shepard. I know there are women out there that love the series, and love to play a female Shepard (I bet there are some that like to play male Shepard as well), but I doubt that the numbers would increase two fold if a female Shepard was part of the original brand. I could be wrong, I have been wrong many times before, but the numbers just don't play out that way. As good as ME is, it's not a 4-5 million unit seller. Most of those games are multiplayer games.

@GunMoth
Yes, I read your post over in the other thread, but thanks for reposting.
Does Bioware try new things? Of course they do. You have to in order reach new customer bases, which in turn helps maintain and expand your current customer base.
I still don't understand why you think they are more progressive. They started a game franchise staring a male protagonist. They continued the same branding all the way through the series, adding a female image to a CE version of the 3rd and final installment of the game. This took little effort, little money, and they stand to make some extra money from it. If by progressive you mean they made a business decision that will increase their revenue by a small percentage, then ok, they are progressive. I can say without a doubt in my mind, that if it was going to cost them an exuberant amount of money to do, and they figured their return would be minimal, they wouldn't be doing it.

Also, to address your last comment on females that haven't helped the female image...I disagree. Lara Croft is portrayed as a smart, adventurous female that can take care of herself, get the job done, and kick some ass on the way. Does it bother you that they made her look good doing it? (I would argue that Lara didn't look so hot in the very first Tomb Raider game )
Nariko has the same attributes as any other tough lead character, she just happens to be female. So I am not sure what the problem is.

Ahhh the Barbie debate all over again. (This next wall of text applies to male characters as well).

Having a female/male protagonist who is good at everything, has no internal conflicts, AND is abo****ely gorgeous is absurd, lazy, and doesn't make for a good narrative. And no, I'm not talking about terrible Samus Other M inner conflicts. I'm talking about narratives that help explore the inner psyche of the individual you're playing as. It doesn't matter if a woman is portrayed as weak, or pathetic. She just has to be believable. If you want to get REALLY into it, it really all comes down to survival. If you're weak, you'll use the tools at your disposal to take control of a situation in order to survive (Enslaved: The Lost Odyssy). 

A good example of a hypersexualized female that has depth (like I've said before) is Bayonetta. We get to see maternal instincts that we don't often see in female protagonists. We also get to see an inner aspect of herself physically follow her around - a symbolic embodiment of how she sometimes feels. Lara Croft has none of those moments. Like I said before I feel this way about male characters too.

The problem with Shepard is that she is many things to many people. She is a blank slate protagonist with several different backgrounds. Trying to find a happy medium that will represent the entire female player base is a difficult task. I believe that's why Bioware asked the community to vote. (They've been doing this a lot lately. Tali's face is another example) and although some fan bases may be upset about the way they go about executing these decisions, I think the main reason behind this method of interacting with their fans is a form of marketing in itself. You are allowing fans to make design decisions about a game that is focused on making descions. 

And by progressive I mean they are considering different audiences. (Homosexuals, females) which does NOT have to water down the game at all, even though some people believe it does. The only thing that I feel has been watered down is some of the combat - although I will say I could not breeze through insanity in ME2 like I did in ME1. 

Modifié par GunMoth, 05 août 2011 - 09:27 .

[GunMoth]

OH! Also Raanz. Yes, CE concept art on the back of the box is extremely small. Took little effort etc. etc.

But if you haven't noticed - many males are already saying that its TOO much. That it isn't fair. That they want male shepard revamped etc. etc.

If Bioware made a bigger deal about this then people would be PISSED. Baby steps.

[Errationatus]

Olwydd wrote...

I'll just point out that what you've just written is absolutely ridiculous, and on top of that, rather offensive. To vote for a protagonist with yellow hair makes you tantamount to a white supremicist, or just plain shallow? Seriously? Get over yourself.

But don't take my word for it, 'cause apparantly I'm a bimbo, boring as hell, and a giant walking cliche. Sorry to offend you by my very existence.

Apparently you are too dim to catch the mocking tone for this entire pointless debate throughout my little post.  Thirty-five-odd pages of b!tching over hair colour, and you chastise me.

Do the folks in this thread really have nothing better to do than debate something this gawddamn assinine?

[sotonohito55]

I still maintain that the problem isn't the blonde winner, but the existence of the contest and the assumption that they needed to completely rebuild the character.

Updated art, sure. But wholly new character?

It isn't the best analogy but: if they were going to put Luigi on ads for the new Mario game, but decided to first completely redesign Luigi so he bore absolutely no resemblance whatsoever to the Luigi that had existed for the prior games, people would be grumpy.

I'm not going to cancel my pre-order. I'm not butthurt. I'm annoyed.

And I'm annoyed not at the winner of the contest, #5 isn't the problem. I'm annoyed at the existence of the contest.

Updated art is great. A total redesign not so much.

[Errationatus]

1136342t54 wrote...

Don't worry I tend to see posts like that as people who are just trolling others and really don't believe it. 

That saves me from having to think that people can be mind boggingly stupid :happy:

Don't worry, as you obviously missed my point as well.  *Shrug*

Alas.  No matter.  It was meant in jest and there will be those with no senses of humour - or who actually think this stupidity is important enough to get butthurt over.

Someone gots thems a problem, but is shur'shell not me.

[sotonohito55]

I'm also mildly annoyed that the only thread permitted to exist here is the one about hair color rather than any threads about general objections with the contest/redesign that people might have. It isn't about the hair color. It isn't a problem with #5. It's a problem with Bioware doing a total redesign at all, and trying to pass off that total redesign as femshep.

It's a problem with them dishonestly claiming to be fulfilling their promise to put femshep into ads, but not the femshep we all know. Yeah, very few people played default femshep, I didn't, but if you'd seen a promo pic of the old default femshep out of N7 armor, you'd recognize her as femshep.

If you'd seen #5 without the N7 armor there's no way you'd have recognized her as femshep.

That's the problem.

[Fata Morgana]

sotonohito55 wrote...

I still maintain that the problem isn't the blonde winner, but the existence of the contest and the assumption that they needed to completely rebuild the character.

Updated art, sure. But wholly new character?

It isn't the best analogy but: if they were going to put Luigi on ads for the new Mario game, but decided to first completely redesign Luigi so he bore absolutely no resemblance whatsoever to the Luigi that had existed for the prior games, people would be grumpy.

I'm not going to cancel my pre-order. I'm not butthurt. I'm annoyed.

And I'm annoyed not at the winner of the contest, #5 isn't the problem. I'm annoyed at the existence of the contest.

Updated art is great. A total redesign not so much.

You're speaking as if there ever was a real effort put in to designing a FemShep. There wasn't.  Even what little appearances FemShep had on any box art kept her helmeted, because until now she hasn't had an official face. 

[Fata Morgana]

sotonohito55 wrote...

 but if you'd seen a promo pic of the old default femshep out of N7 armor, you'd recognize her as femshep.

I seriously doubt if I would, frankly. The original 'default' was and is generic enough that it could appear on an NPC and no one would notice. 

Modifié par Fata Morgana, 05 août 2011 - 09:50 .

[sotonohito55]

Of course she had an official face, let's not play games here. Her official face was the default face that popped up when you chose to play a female Shepard. Same as the official face for manshep was the default face that popped up when you chose to play a male Shepard.

[Errationatus]

didymos1120 wrote...

And I'm sure those 50 million would be ever so appreciative of you using their deaths as a rhetorical bludgeon because you're miffed about what a VIDEO GAME CHARACTER looks like.  Christ.

I'm not miffed by anything other than how seriously people are taking this nonsense of blonde/not-blonde.  The ridiculousness of my post is directly proportionate to the idiocy rampant in this thread and the passion people have for something this valueless.

Is there nothing else in the world worth your arguing time? 

Who actually gives a sh!t that FemShep default will be blonde?  I wanna meet the person who thinks this is important enough for all this angst and pain,  because I think I can recommend a decent shrink or two.

Modifié par JakeMacDon, 05 août 2011 - 10:00 .

[Errationatus]

JigPig wrote...

SNIP.

You missed my point so completely...  how's that smug taste now that you've knee-jerked reacted instead of actually reading what I wrote?

I'll give you a hint:  it was SATIRE.

Holy jumping Salarians.  *shakes head*

Modifié par JakeMacDon, 05 août 2011 - 09:55 .

[JigPig]

JakeMacDon wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

And I'm sure those 50 million would be ever so appreciative of you using their deaths as a rhetorical bludgeon because you're miffed about what a VIDEO GAME CHARACTER looks like.  Christ.

I'm not miffed by anything other than how seriously people are taking this nonsense of blonde/not-blonde.  The ridiculousness of my post is directly proportionate to the idiocy rampent in this thread and the passion people have for something this valueless.

Is there nothing else in the world worth your arguing time? 

Who actually gives a sh!t that FemShep default will be blonde?  I wanna meet the person who thinks this is important enough for all this angst and pain,  because I think I can recommend a decent shrink or two.

1. Posts about topic.
2. Says how silly it is to debate topic.
3. Continues to post.
4. 2 & 3

JakeMacDon wrote...

JigPig wrote...

SNIP.

You
missed my point so completely...  how's that smug taste now that you've
knee-jerked reacted instead of actually reading what I wrote?

I'll give you a hint:  it was SATIRE.

Holy jumping Salarians.  *shakes head*

"JOKES ON YOU IM ONLY PRETENDING TO BE RETARDED"

Modifié par JigPig, 05 août 2011 - 09:59 .

[Rockworm503]

wicked117 wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

Evilatem wrote...

www.facebook.com/pages/Save-the-Default-FemShep-for-ME3/196825517039405

OMG that page is pathetic.
Their using the PC gamer article to make it about politics.  Damn the butthurt over a simple hair color is astounding.

I could not agree with you more Rock. When I saw that I did a face palm. The out cry against blonde FemShep is getting redonkulous (yes I said redonkulous because rediculous just doesn't cut it). I can understand voicing your disappointment but the majority of the complaints have turned into basicly a temper tantrum 

Indeed their actually hurting their cause by making women look like whiny brats who cry when they don't get their way.  Forget the blonde stereotype.  We got ourselves the mob mentality on facebook crying out for blood because their Shep isn't the one being represented.

[Errationatus]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Nice didn't even bother reading anything in this thread did you?
good job attempting to make your personal hair color into a political statement but yours lost.

SATIRE.  Sheesh.  When you guys miss a point you really frigg'n miss it.

[Fata Morgana]

sotonohito55 wrote...

Of course she had an official face, let's not play games here. Her official face was the default face that popped up when you chose to play a female Shepard. Same as the official face for manshep was the default face that popped up when you chose to play a male Shepard.

The face you're talking about was one of several presets. The game just happened to start you on that preset, it didn't make it an official face.

Male Shep's face was different in that it was actually used in advertising. Saying that the first preset that comes up is the 'official' face is like saying that Shep is officially a soldier, since that's the first class choice you see when you customize. 

[MrDizazta]

This whole debate is pointless. The only people to blame for blonde femshep are the fans themselves. Again this is an example of a vocal minority who complains about every little thing they don't like about a game, that hasn't even been released yet. I myself wanted Shepard #1, but I am okay with Shepard #5.

[TheNoisyNeutron]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Indeed their actually hurting their cause by making women look like whiny brats who cry when they don't get their way.  Forget the blonde stereotype.  We got ourselves the mob mentality on facebook crying out for blood because their Shep isn't the one being represented.

^This 

[Errationatus]

JigPig wrote...

"JOKES ON YOU IM ONLY PRETENDING TO BE RETARDED"

Really?  Dude, you're doing a helluva job.  Honestly.  Stick with it.  There's no reason to quit now that you've become so proficient.

May I just extend my congratulations that you've managed to get this far.

You are truly an inspiration.