125 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

It's possible the elves lived alongside dwarves in ancient Arlathan.


It would help explain how a Varterral looks all golem-y sort of. Assuming of course the elven pantheon didn't actually create the varterral

[Jamie9]

I'm seeing lots of opposites with the Dalish and Chantry lore: Arlathan was sunk underground; The Golden City is up above. Fen'Heral banished Gods below and above. Remember, the Nexus Golem, 'The Stone is beneath Orlais.'

Some of this is true, and I believe some of it is complete lies. No basis in truth whatsoever. How to separate these is a mystery to me though.

[whykikyouwhy]

Now I'm mulling on the Nexus Golem, and how nexus means "connected series or group, or a means of connection." Which then of course brings me back to my other hazy theory about there being several entry points to the supposed golden city. Maybe there was a golem at each. Maybe the golem itself is a tie between the worlds (figurative and literal) of elves and dwarves.

Nexus...Conductor achievement...Key...is there a kite somewhere? And a bespectacled man standing in a storm?? Is Kirkwall a circuit board?

[Jamie9]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Now I'm mulling on the Nexus Golem, and how nexus means "connected series or group, or a means of connection." Which then of course brings me back to my other hazy theory about there being several entry points to the supposed golden city. Maybe there was a golem at each. Maybe the golem itself is a tie between the worlds (figurative and literal) of elves and dwarves.

Nexus...Conductor achievement...Key...is there a kite somewhere? And a bespectacled man standing in a storm?? Is Kirkwall a circuit board?

Hmmm... a very intriguing point. Everything is at Kirkwall. The Hand of the Divine ends up in Kirkwall. The first Darkspawn is at Kirkwall, the Mage-Templar War starts at Kirkwall. Where is the Veil most thin in the whole of Thedas - Kirkwall. I can't help but feel that Gods, Flemeth, something is behind the scenes pulling all these events together.

Excellent point.

[TEWR]

I don't think Corypheus was the first Darkspawn, but he is definitely one of the first Awakened Darkspawn (The Architect and the other magisters being the rest)

[whykikyouwhy]

Ok - wild theory. And I seem to recall someone somewhere making reference to this. But in Anne Rice's Queen of the Damned, the first vampires were 'born' by the actions of an ancient spirit who fed upon them and corrupted/possessed them. Those first two vampires then sired the rest, but they remained nearly immortal (and dormant) as the eons passed.

What if the true first darkspawn is such a creature or that creature's first victim? And what if that creature was locked away in what the magister's thought was the golden city (but was actually the black city)? So the magisters open the door, the hungry spirit feeds, corruption is spread, and hello Blight.

Quite wild of an idea. Sorry. I am beginning to think that Bioware may be taking sadistic delight in their insanity-inducing riddles/puzzles.

[Rifneno]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

@ Rifneno The codex entry on the Profane makes me shudder. And yes, I thought the same as you, that the Primeval Thaig was part of Arlathan once. Isn't speculating fun? The ancient magisters must have been one special brand of douchebag to sink an entire city into the ground, it just seems like such overkill. Unless the city had defenses that even the magisters couldn't get past, and sinking it was a way of working around them.

I'd heard people ponder the possibility before, but I don't remember ever seeing more supporting the notion than "it's weird and they said Arlathan was sunk." But a lot of pieces fit if that thaig was Arlathan.

Sinking it is a shock and awe thing I think. If you raze a city, people hate you. If you make the Earth swallow it, people wet themselves in terror of you. But still, overkill like you said. I wonder if there's more to the Arlathan story that won't be revealed until a later game...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

@Rifneno - I think you and I were talking about the profane and the lyrium idol on another thread - the whole connection between the profane having feasted upon the gods and how Bartrand made his servants eat chunks of the idol. It all comes back to that pesky idol. Which begs questions like 'is the red lyrium actually a tainted form?' and 'is the red lyrium holding the essence of something?' Old god? Older than old god? Was it a channeling object for the powers/magics used to breach the Golden City?

My only hesitation regarding the thaig being Arlathan is that it doesn't have 'enough' elven architecture/decor/etc within it. It still looks very dwarven, though alien in some way. Maybe it was a dwarven-Elven hybrid. Which isn't to say it's not a valid theory - I just remain full of (more) questions.

Well if they gave it clearly elven architecture, there'd be no mystery. We would've known as soon as we stepped foot in it. Besides, it's not like we know how Arlathan architecture looked. The spirit in the soulgem in the elven ruins of DAO said that humans built that place. And the other elven ruins in DAO are basically copy and pastes of that one. So all we really have to go by is modern Dalish stuff, which would be like comparing modern Utah to 5000 BC Athens.

Jamie9 wrote...

I'm seeing lots of opposites with the Dalish and Chantry lore: Arlathan was sunk underground; The Golden City is up above. Fen'Heral banished Gods below and above. Remember, the Nexus Golem, 'The Stone is beneath Orlais.'

Some of this is true, and I believe some of it is complete lies. No basis in truth whatsoever. How to separate these is a mystery to me though.

I've been meaning to mention for a while, the Nexus Golem is not the only source of the "Stone is beneath Orlais" message. Or even the first. In Leliana's Song if you read the item description of Tug's axe it mentions a hidden message that was under the pommel saying the same thing. That hint was a bit more subtle than the Nexus Golem. Perhaps it's also been mentioned other places. There is definitely something to it though. One mention I can see being nothing, but they've left it subtly laying around two games now.

[macrocarl]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Ok - wild theory. And I seem to recall someone somewhere making reference to this. But in Anne Rice's Queen of the Damned, the first vampires were 'born' by the actions of an ancient spirit who fed upon them and corrupted/possessed them. Those first two vampires then sired the rest, but they remained nearly immortal (and dormant) as the eons passed.

What if the true first darkspawn is such a creature or that creature's first victim? And what if that creature was locked away in what the magister's thought was the golden city (but was actually the black city)? So the magisters open the door, the hungry spirit feeds, corruption is spread, and hello Blight.

Quite wild of an idea. Sorry. I am beginning to think that Bioware may be taking sadistic delight in their insanity-inducing riddles/puzzles.

Yes! This is what I was thinking exactly. That the golden city was a god-like jail or something and when the mages showed up and unlocked it, that's when the **** hit the fan. Doesn't Ol' Cory say something like 'It was supposed to be golden but it was all black'? Something like that. Maybe they went looking for the ultimate power source and they found it, but not in the way they were expecting.

[whykikyouwhy]

@Rifneno - True, elven architecture would have been a giveaway (and clearly, we're not going to be handed anything so easily). I expect you are correct in that we'll see more about Arlathan in the games to come. Unless we're already missing some key piece now. I wonder though if the Primeval Thaig is built 'on top' of Arlathan. Our own history is full of records of cities built upon cities. Which, in DA, could just compound the magical energies (positive or negative) layered there. Maybe that's the stone under Orlais. Or the "stone" is the source vein for the red lyrium. Or it's the dwarven Valhalla - the stone they all return to. (This is where my theories get tangled)

@macrocarl - I think the city is a big Pandora's box.

[Ginkeh]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

 I wonder though if the Primeval Thaig is built 'on top' of Arlathan.

I`d think the Primeval Thaig is as old, if not older than Arlathan. (Arlathan was founded about 8500 years ago, Primeval Thaig outdates any records in the Shaperate, and is probably older than the Deep Roads)

Edit: I know you`re not always supposed to trust a wiki, but according to the Dragon Age Wiki, Primeval Thaig os over 10.000 years old.
http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Thaigs

Besides, the Primeval Thaig is relatively close to Kirkwall, and Arlathan is  located north of Antiva, in Arlathan forrest.

Modifié par Ginkeh, 03 août 2011 - 03:56 .

[whykikyouwhy]

Doesn't Arlathan refer more to the empire than an actual city? I could be completely wrong in that. But if so, however unlikely, maybe the thaig is connected to the empire somehow, or is over some outpost.

Or is just a plain, creepy place filled with god-eating profane.

[ReallyRue]

Ginkeh wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

 I wonder though if the Primeval Thaig is built 'on top' of Arlathan.

I`d think the Primeval Thaig is as old, if not older than Arlathan. (Arlathan was founded about 8500 years ago, Primeval Thaig outdates any records in the Shaperate, and is probably older than the Deep Roads)

Edit: I know you`re not always supposed to trust a wiki, but according to the Dragon Age Wiki, Primeval Thaig os over 10.000 years old.
http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Thaigs

Besides, the Primeval Thaig is relatively close to Kirkwall, and Arlathan is  located north of Antiva, in Arlathan forrest.

Aww, I was really starting to think about that Primeval Thaig=Arlathan theory. Now I'm just back to wondering exactly what the Thaig is, and the Profane, what the truth is with Arlathan, etc.

@whykikyouwhy, I think you (or perhaps someone else) mentioned a theory about Arlathan being involved with the source/spread of the darkspawn taint. Did you mean because it could spread through the Eluvian, or because of some Fade connection or something?

[Darius Vir]

^ To my understanding, Arlathan itself was the main city of elven civilization, which was apparently spread across Thedas.

Elven civilization may have been an eponymously named for Arlathan, but from what I can recall anyone mentioning Arlathan was referring to that central city.

I also don't think the Primeval Thaig is Arlathan.  Even if we don't follow the timeline exactly, we know that the Primeval Thaig is so old that the Dwarves have no clue about it.  Arlathan is old too, but looks like it was destroyed roughly 1300-2000 years ago, at a time when Orzammar and the current Dwarven civilization was up and running. 

Modifié par Darius Vir, 03 août 2011 - 04:47 .

[MichaelFinnegan]

Well, not entirely a disappointment. We need to remember that once ancient elves were spread throughout Thedas. If not Arlathan, it could have been some other elven city. But there is no other reference to any cities that were actually "sunk" underground. So perhaps the thaig is indeed dwarven in origin - one that could have had elves co-existing at some point in time.

I don't think the reference to the Primeval Thaig being 10000 years old has any credence. What exactly in-game makes that reference? Nevertheless the thaig seems pretty old. And I think it relates more to a time when dwarves were different, and that part of their history is not recorded in shaperate memory, maybe intentionally so.

I still think one needs to study closely the form (not just the function) of the lyrium idol found in that thaig. There are actually two humanoid figures in it. One I think is female and the other male. The green, oval thing could be the Eluvian - but I won't bet on it. And the red veins at the bottom seem to be the red lyrium that we see in that thaig.

The interesting thing for me about the idol is actually the female figure. Particularly the headband it is wearing. It seems unusually like the one Flemeth wears in DA2, and also like the one that Meredith wears.

Now what does all this mean? I have next to no idea.

[whykikyouwhy]

@ReallyRue - I think I brought up (or rather, supported) the theory that the eluvians were involved in either reaching the city and/or transmitting the taint. But at this point, I'm losing track of what I have speculated and where :/

@MichaelFinnegan - It's quite possible that there is some connection between the idol and Flemeth and Meredith, though I think the headpiece may just be an ancient design that has transcended the ages. A crown standard maybe. If the two figures are male and female, that seems to imply a creation motif. As for the green between them...maybe and eluvian. That would certainly be interesting. Or maybe its indicative of the earth/world itself.

[MichaelFinnegan]

Yes, perhaps you're right. The figures on the idol may mean nothing. But my curiosity lingers. What were the ancient dwarves doing with it? And why are the figures depicted in that way? I suppose the insidious nature of the idol draws me to concoct more and more theories about it, to analyze every last bit of it.

[ReallyRue]

Anyone have a screen of the lyrium idol? I tried to do a google search, but for some reason it's showing up quite a few pictures of large spiders and I... can't continue.

[MichaelFinnegan]

Here you go: http://dragonage.wik...iki/Lyrium_idol

And the enlarged image from that page: http://images.wikia....ng_the_idol.jpg

You can expand it by clicking on the image after it opens in your browser.

[whykikyouwhy]

That idol is the venus fly trap of DA2 - all sticky sweet to draw us in, and then snap goes the gaping maw and we're digested whole. Which is really a horrific metaphor...

I'll have a good laugh if the idol is a MacGuffin, just some chum in the water to bait us into traversing speculation. A good laugh, and then a stiff drink.

[Ginkeh]

Darius Vir wrote...

^ To my understanding, Arlathan itself was the main city of elven civilization, which was apparently spread across Thedas.

That is correct, the name for the elven civilization was Elvhenan, which means "place of our people.
Arlathan was it`s "capital" located in Arlathan forrest, which is north of Antiva, and east of Tevinter.

Modifié par Ginkeh, 03 août 2011 - 05:14 .

[OmegaXI]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Now I'm mulling on the Nexus Golem, and how nexus means "connected series or group, or a means of connection." Which then of course brings me back to my other hazy theory about there being several entry points to the supposed golden city. Maybe there was a golem at each. Maybe the golem itself is a tie between the worlds (figurative and literal) of elves and dwarves.

Nexus...Conductor achievement...Key...is there a kite somewhere? And a bespectacled man standing in a storm?? Is Kirkwall a circuit board?

I bet the Magisters need alot of lyrium to open a portal/doorway into the Golden City, they got it from the old dwarvian empire and that is where the portal was opened(in the Old Dwarvian Empire). This would explain why the Darkspawn first appeared in the deep roads and attacked the dwarfs.

So if the portal to the golden city that the magisters opened was in the the old dwarvian empire, the real question would be if it was ever closed.

[MichaelFinnegan]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

That idol is the venus fly trap of DA2 - all sticky sweet to draw us in, and then snap goes the gaping maw and we're digested whole. Which is really a horrific metaphor...

I'll have a good laugh if the idol is a MacGuffin, just some chum in the water to bait us into traversing speculation. A good laugh, and then a stiff drink.

The thought has crossed my mind, you know. Still, though, the way that the outcome of DA2 revolved around it, somewhat, makes me hopeful it isn't. That said, I don't think, or don't want, more precisely, the idol or even the red lyrium to be the source of the taint - seems rather a terrible way to reveal it so early in the series. But, if not the source of the taint, what could have been its purpose?

[jlb524]

I just wonder why Cory thought he was in dwarven lands when he first woke up...especially considering how open to the surrounding area/sky his prison was...he had to sense he wasn't underground.

[whykikyouwhy]

@jlb524 - aren't there giant dwarf statues in the tower where he awakens? But even if not, it's probably a hint to where he may have been originally vanquished, or where he entered the city from...?