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[Demx]

Sepewrath wrote...

How does killing Darkspawn at the beginning make you feel like a Champion? Physical skill alone wont make someone Champion, you have to do something of note and killing a bunch of Darkspawn is not exactly something of note. And you do realize your influence is why you got to chat it up with the brass of the city right, people don't get to just see the Viscount, Knight Commander and such on a whim.

On a side note TC is your name in reference to Ryofu Housen?

Weren't you only brought there the first time was because the Arishok knew you by name?

[Huntress]

Ryoufu wrote...

Ulicus wrote...

I'm still a little sad that "Champion" didn't turn out to be a new title to replace Viscount.

I felt the same after my first playthrough

I think all of US felt the same way...

[miskatonica]

I honestly figured the entire point of Hawke being named the ~Champion of Kirkwall~ was the irony in it. Here's a "champion" who couldn't even save his own mother, but he managed to save the city?

Hawke never decided to earn the title of Champion. Other people just slapped it onto him. I thought the idea (reinforced by how Varric spreads all those stories about you) was simply to show "look, this is what the Champion was REALLY like-- just your average bloke trying to carve out a place for his family to be."

[Sepewrath]

miskatonica wrote...

I honestly figured the entire point of Hawke being named the ~Champion of Kirkwall~ was the irony in it. Here's a "champion" who couldn't even save his own mother, but he managed to save the city?

Hawke never decided to earn the title of Champion. Other people just slapped it onto him. I thought the idea (reinforced by how Varric spreads all those stories about you) was simply to show "look, this is what the Champion was REALLY like-- just your average bloke trying to carve out a place for his family to be."

Agreed, showing that behind the legend was just a wo/man trying to make it in the world and happened to just be in the right place(or wrong place) at the right time.

Siradix wrote...
Weren't you only brought there the first time was because the Arishok knew you by name?

Yep.

[Gervaise]

The Champion is an honour title bestowed because people saw you take down the Arishok, either alone or with compaions.  Most of the nobility and other influential people were there to witness the deed.  Afterwards they put up a statue of you down in the docks, with your foot on the head of the Arishok.   You might not have single handedly saved them from the Arishok but it makes for a good rallying point for the people.  A figurehead of civic pride regardless of who you are really as a person.

I assumed this was the reason that Meredith didn't instantly arrest you if you are a mage, since you are clearly an apostate.  Essentially you are now going to be much more noticed by people as a result, so instantly it is Meredith who asks you to perform a task for her even if you opposed her.  This way she gets to assess how much of a threat you are.  She is wary of an outright attack at this stage and probably hopes that at some point you will damn yourself.  So Anders is a gift because as she points out, he was one of your followers.   And he did kill one of the most popular Grand Clerics in the history of the city.  So she is happy to manipulate the situation either to get you to visibly support the Templars or actively oppose them and then kill you, after which she can issue any story she likes to account for it.   With only her Templars present to bear witness, you and your followers either died bravely on the side of the Templars fighting the Orsino abomination, or were killed by your own folly in supporting the mages when the Orsino abomination turned on you.

I note that lying and bearing false witness is considered a major sin - is this why Cullen and the other Templars finally got some backbone - because they would have to lie about how you died?

[EnforcerGREG]

Im trying to remember all the political descions we made as champion it's been a while and im curently replaying origins but it seems all we were was basiaclly an ambasoder to the Qunari compound and a go between between the Chantry/Templars/Circle.

We could choose to hide or burn the qunari bodys

If sided with Mages at the opening of act 3 you could meet with a resistance of nobles to templar rule.

Besides the whole Mage-Templar conflict I don't think we delved into Kirkwall politics enougth. Did we ever meet any other nobles in higher goverment.

glimpses into kirkwall relation with other marcher citys exept through sebastian

Did we ever meet the leaders of the coterie or find out what the raiders plan was for Kirkwall ?

Anyone else have any ideas on what we did or wern't allowed to do?

Modifié par EnforcerGREG, 04 août 2011 - 02:54 .

[CrimsonZephyr]

Siradix wrote...

Basically instead of reviving a medal for a job well done, you get a title. It's probably more in line with receiving the Key to the City. You're a civvie and you went beyond what is expected of you in order to protect this city. So here's a cookie.

In a game filled with ubermensch type characters (The Arishok, Anders, Meredith, etc), being powerless and without any agency makes Hawke a loser.

[Kaiser Shepard]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The idea of a Champion is someone who wields great influence and power and is either a protector or a person of intimidation.


Hawke is just a person of intimidation, but has no influence, no power, no connections. His rise to power was just him stumbling into it. I'm not saying he should've planned on becoming Champion, but he definitely should've made connections to help solidify his mother's attempt at getting back the estate. Then when **** hit the fan in Act 2 he could've called upon his allies to help fight back against the Qunari, and then his being named Champion would've been believable.

I could give a long dissertation on how I would've done it, but I need to get some sleep. I'm sure someone else will post how it should've been done.

I would've liked this as well, as there are quite a few factions that Hawke gets to deal with and may be in favor with: the mercenaries/smuglers that got him into the city, the city guard under Aveline, possibly Petrice and her fellow crazies... Also got a "I should be able to recruit you" vibe from the Profane and their Sloth Demon leader back in Act 1, was disappointed to find out that wasn't the case.

Would also have liked some political powers and privileges to come with the title, as I highly enjoyed the Landsmeet in Origins and ruling Amaranthine in Awakening.

[HSHAW]

Also got a "I should be able to recruit you" vibe from the Profane and their Sloth Demon leader back in Act 1, was disappointed to find out that wasn't the case.

why the heck would some rock wraiths and a hunger demon help you?

[Augustei]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

I don't think there are any lands or such bestowed with the title. Maybe it's more like being knighted. There's a wiki article here with the description - it's lenghty, otherwise, I'd copy and paste.

What about Champion of Redcliffe, the title the warden and his companions got?

[Kaiser Shepard]

HSHAW wrote...

Also got a "I should be able to recruit you" vibe from the Profane and their Sloth Demon leader back in Act 1, was disappointed to find out that wasn't the case.

why the heck would some rock wraiths and a hunger demon help you?

Because you made a deal with him? Because it would possibly benefit them as well? Same reason you could also recruit the werewolves?

[Sepewrath]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...
In a game filled with ubermensch type characters (The Arishok, Anders, Meredith, etc), being powerless and without any agency makes Hawke a loser.

So is the Warden a loser for being powerless to stop Logahin at the start, for being powerless to stop Lothering from falling and for the Darkspawn killing a ton of people? How about Shepard for the probably billions of people that will die in ME3?

[Plaintiff]

I guess it's too bad, then, that "Champion" is a title bestowed in-game, by fictional characters, and your interpretation of the term is largely irrelevent.

[TexasToast712]

 Well you kinda were responsible for a world war breaking out.

[Darius Vir]

miskatonica wrote...

I honestly figured the entire point of Hawke being named the ~Champion of Kirkwall~ was the irony in it. Here's a "champion" who couldn't even save his own mother, but he managed to save the city?

Hawke never decided to earn the title of Champion. Other people just slapped it onto him. I thought the idea (reinforced by how Varric spreads all those stories about you) was simply to show "look, this is what the Champion was REALLY like-- just your average bloke trying to carve out a place for his family to be."

Truth. 

I also liked the notion that on the one hand, Hawke was legitimately an extremely powerful, feared individual.  But on the other, he really sort of just stumbles into a lot of misfortune and chaos.  I really enjoyed playing this character. 

[Potato Cat]

We should have had more political influence and the like. 'Tis a shame.