47 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Ironically if the devs hadn't been so eager to off Hawke's mother in Act 2 there might've been a reason for my Hawke to stay in Kirkwall instead of throwing his hands up. As it is..."everyone's dead Dave."

[Asch Lavigne]

I would have just let Meredith and Orsino kill each other and have the whole thing be over with.

[HSHAW]

Asch Lavigne wrote...

I would have just let Meredith and Orsino kill each other and have the whole thing be over with.

and then Meredith kills you for not siding with her.

[nitefyre410]

HSHAW wrote...

Asch Lavigne wrote...

I would have just let Meredith and Orsino kill each other and have the whole thing be over with.

and then Meredith kills you for not siding with her.

I love how ppl just keeping  missing  her "If you not with me your against me" Speech. 

[stewie1974]

How would an everyone in kirkwall died ending been?

I'd assume kirkwall would be embroiled in a war and the mages and templars would still be fighting...

Personally I wanted a "side with the quanari" ending, sure my game would have ended , but I really liked what those guys had to say lol. When I had to go and kill the quanari I felt like I was defending a city of forgien hating scumbags that was mismanaged and inefficient, the quanari would have brought some semblance of order to it....sure it would instigate a war with the rest of the free marches, but who cares.

[nitefyre410]

stewie1974 wrote...

How would an everyone in kirkwall died ending been?

I'd assume kirkwall would be embroiled in a war and the mages and templars would still be fighting...

Personally I wanted a "side with the quanari" ending, sure my game would have ended , but I really liked what those guys had to say lol. When I had to go and kill the quanari I felt like I was defending a city of forgien hating scumbags that was mismanaged and inefficient, the quanari would have brought some semblance of order to it....sure it would instigate a war with the rest of the free marches, but who cares.

Arishok: "They choose to obey"

Me:   but thats not a choice and a choice at the  same time and I mad at myself that I understand that paradox 


Sounded bad ass when  he said  it though.

[Sajuro]

Apathy1989 wrote...

Well the witcher had a "neutral" option where you moved through the city trying to do your goals, but ultimately killed both sides who got in your way. Not sure how DA2 could have done it.

Protecting the people? Templars aren't attacking "the people", so you will just be fighting abominations.
Running for the hills? Rather lame ending.

Dress up like Dalish Elves and go to the camp and steal all of the hallas.

[Ryzaki]

nitefyre410 wrote...

HSHAW wrote...

Asch Lavigne wrote...

I would have just let Meredith and Orsino kill each other and have the whole thing be over with.

and then Meredith kills you for not siding with her.

I love how ppl just keeping  missing  her "If you not with me your against me" Speech. 

I love how you're missing the fact that 
1. Hawke could've LIED to her. She didn't go with him. 
2. Hawke could've fought her. She's not a god. She would've gone down. Especially if the mages decided to fight with Hawke since fighting with him was their best chance of taking out Meredith. 

Then of course is the "Well if you say I have to pick sides Meredith I'll pick the mages. Now which would you prefer? That I leave and not be a threat to you or that I fight with them?"

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 août 2011 - 01:22 .

[HSHAW]

nerdage wrote...

How is killing everyone neutral? Being hostile to both sides isn't the same.

that's why the title was changed to kill both sides.

[dragonfire100]

Mage:HAWKE WE NEED YOUR HELP!
Hawke:Im gona help TO THE RESUE!
Teplare:Why did you betray us hawke?
Hawke:Cause its not right how you treat mages.
Now the templares are dead and hawke saved the day like a true hero.

[nitefyre410]

Ryzaki wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

HSHAW wrote...

Asch Lavigne wrote...

I would have just let Meredith and Orsino kill each other and have the whole thing be over with.

and then Meredith kills you for not siding with her.

I love how ppl just keeping  missing  her "If you not with me your against me" Speech. 

I love how you're missing the fact that 
1. Hawke could've LIED to her. She didn't go with him. 
2. Hawke could've fought her. She's not a god. She would've gone down. Especially if the mages decided to fight with Hawke since fighting with him was their best chance of taking out Meredith. 

Then of course is the "Well if you say I have to pick sides Meredith I'll pick the mages. Now which would you prefer? That I leave and not be a threat to you or that I fight with them?"

which goes back to   the speech "about if your not with me your against me."

[Ryzaki]

nitefyre410 wrote...
which goes back to   the speech "about if your not with me your against me."

 

Except of course you can still be neutral and fight Meredith. 

Self defense doesn't mean you're gonna fight the templars or try to stop the RoA once Meredith has stopped persuing you. 

[Macropodmum]

stewie1974 wrote...

 the quanari would have brought some semblance of order to it....

Dictatorship moreso than order, can't possibly see how that is even remotely better than Meredith...

[TJPags]

HSHAW wrote...

a question for neutral ending supporters, where would you get the forces to wipe out the Templars and Mages?

Really?  My Hawke and 3 companions wiped out everyone in the gallows.  There were no mages helping me kill templars - hell, the only mages I saw were dying on templar blades or turning into abominations (or Harvesters) and attacking me . . .and dying for it.

Doesn't seem like it would have been all that hard to wipe out every living thing in the Gallows.

[HSHAW]

TJPags wrote...
Really?  My Hawke and 3 companions wiped out everyone in the gallows.  There were no mages helping me kill templars - hell, the only mages I saw were dying on templar blades or turning into abominations (or Harvesters) and attacking me . . .and dying for it.

Doesn't seem like it would have been all that hard to wipe out every living thing in the Gallows.

ignoring game mechanics, Hawke and friends would have been slaughtered if they tried to take on everything in the gallows on their own.

[TJPags]

HSHAW wrote...

TJPags wrote...
Really?  My Hawke and 3 companions wiped out everyone in the gallows.  There were no mages helping me kill templars - hell, the only mages I saw were dying on templar blades or turning into abominations (or Harvesters) and attacking me . . .and dying for it.

Doesn't seem like it would have been all that hard to wipe out every living thing in the Gallows.

ignoring game mechanics, Hawke and friends would have been slaughtered if they tried to take on everything in the gallows on their own.

Sure.  But ignoring game mechanics, Hawke and company would have been dead too many times to count throughout the game.

I understand what you're saying, I absolutely do - but it's hard to accept being told you have to choose because the game makes you, and then being told that you can't win because only game mechanics would allow that.  Only game mechanics allowed Hawke to be relevant in any way during DA2.  Only game mechanics prevents you from heading for the hills the moment Meredith walks away after forcing you to choose.  Only game mechanics kept Hawke in Kirkwall for the length of DA2 when there were so many reasons to leave.

Only game mechanics put my Hawke in the position where he had to choose and anyone thought his choice mattered.  If only game mechanics allow him to kill everything in the Gallows, so be it.

[DPSSOC]

I wouldn't have minded the option to fight against both sides but I can understand why it wasn't offerred.  DA2 clearly seems to be setting up something and that requires Hawke have at least one side of the rebellion that respects him.  That falls apart if both sides view him, at best, as a terrifying Angel of Death.  Though that would make him a hell of a bargaining chip.

Templars: Rawrr Mages
Mages: Rawrr Templars
Chantry: Alright stop this at once or we'll send Hawke after you.
Templars & Mages: We'll be good.

Still I kind of felt like slaughtering everyone when I got to the end.

Meredith: I'm gonna kill the mages.
Hawke: You can't kill the mages they're innocent.
Anders: I just blowed up the Chantry.
Hawke: Dammit Anders, ok so they aren't all innocent but Anders is a radical element you can't hold all mages responsible for what he does.
Orsino: I'm gonna use blood magic and become an abomination; also I helped the guy who killed your mother.
Hawke: That's it!  EVERYONE DIES!

Modifié par DPSSOC, 04 août 2011 - 04:18 .

[dragonflight288]

How's this for where Hawke gets troops.

Act 1: Kill Meeran because he/she wouldn't kill Lord Husband of the woman who murdered Sebastian's family. Take over the entire mercenary company have keep them on a personal pay list as soldiers swearing fealty to the noble house.

Act 2: After repelling the Qunari, seek out the crazies throughout Kirkwall that Petrice and Varnell had been preaching too. Gather them together with a huge speech on how the Maker favors Hawke and how he/she single handedly drove out the Qunari. Bring them into service.

Act 3: Call in all Fereldans who survived working the Bone Pit. Offer them a job with good wages, promise them combat training and equipment, and bring them into the service.

Do a few side quests in between the acts in where Hawke decides how to train and use his small army. Will he help the common people to gain numbers and popular support, or will he go a more economic route by dealing with the Merchants Guild Varic goes on so much about. Or even through Piracy and Raiding, and potentially slave trading.

Then when the final curtain falls on the game, Hawke uses his or her forces, based on how they've been trained, to help or hinder either or both sides, through force of arms or espionage and sabotage.

[HSHAW]

act 1: you don't have the money for mercs.

act 2: don't you kill those nutjobs when you kill varnell (and kill what remains of them when you kill the old guard captain)?

act 3: there are no bone pit survivors.

also, wouldn't the chaos after the A-bomb make gathering what forces you have difficult?
EDIT: Meredith would also probably sic a few death squads on Hawke if he started building a military force of his own.

EDIT: also, exalted march, how would you deal with it?

Modifié par HSHAW, 04 août 2011 - 07:30 .

[Gervaise]

The reason you can't choose the neutral option is because that is compromise - it is the sane response to the situation in Kirkwall - and mad Anders has removed that option - because Justice is no longer justice since Justice should have bombed Meredith but he didn't, he bombed the Chantry where the Grand Cleric who represented the neutral option resides.  That is really the only purpose of the Anders/bomb plot - to start a war where appeasment is no longer an option.
So far as game mechanics go, you can take out both sides because essentially that is what you do under the mage ending where you end up fighting templars as well as abominations running through the city and then fighting both inside the gallows.  If you choose the Templar ending, you only fight possessed Templars until after the confrontation with Orsino (where for some peculiar reason Meredith and her glowing sword aren't much assistance).

The fact is that you should be able to point to Anders and say, kill him, not all the Circle.
You should be able to point to Meredith, before the RoA is enacted and addressing yourself to the other Templars, say "Is what she is doing really legal?  Are you not betraying your vows in doing this?  Your duty is to the Maker not Meredith."  The fact that they stand up to her after you have killed the majority of the mages is idiotic and weak.  The fact that they stand up to her when they have seen the First Enchanter morph into the Harvester and therefore apparently endorsed her actions is strange.   If arresting the Champion goes against all the order stands for (even if the Champion is a mage who supported the mages), then clearly it held true before the fight.  Why have they suddenly developed backbone and a conscience?
But then everything that goes on in Kirkwall seems to run contrary to everything we have previously been told about the Chantry, the Circle, the Templars, the Harrowing (which is meant to weed out those in danger of spontaneous abomination), etc, etc.   Even the situation in Kirkwall is full of contradictions (storywise and what you observe on the ground).  What does hold true is that the veil is thin and this makes everyone, not just mages, in peril from the effects of demons whether pride, rage, desire or sloth - which you can argue is what has been going on, accentuated by the lyrium idol. 
Have just had a thought - is that why suddenly everyone remembers what they should be doing - because you have destroyed the power of the idol?  (Oh no, I forgot the Templars rebel before you do that)
Anyway, playing through as Templar supporter - my first action as Vicount would be to evacuate the entire population from Kirkwall and raise it to the ground.   Clearly there are very bad vibes in the location.
Start a New Kirkwall where we observe the true teaching of Andraste (if oppressing and mistreating the least of his children is a sin then clearly abusing mages just because they are mages is a sin).   Acknowlege that if mages are vulnerable to negative emotions, clearly the best way to avoid demons is to foster positive emotions. 
As a mage supporter - I would get as far away from that crazy place as possible.

[Vargeisa]

Hawke: Darn, that Anders is starting to annoy me. Making me look for silly ingredients.

Merrill: You know... I could use blood magic to make the ingredients more potent. That will surely mess him up.

Hawke: Here, have some of my blood too. Make the ingredients extra extra potent. I want that nitwit gone for good.

....



BIG BADA BOOM!!!

[dragonflight288]

I mentioned the Mercenaries as an inbetween the acts, after the Deep Roads when Hawke does have the money.

And when you gather a large population, you can easily find fanatics to support any group, regardless of size. Hawke could probably find some anti-templar or anti-mage fanatics in the city no problem.

And okay, so no survivors in the Bone Pit. Still a lot of Fereldans throughout the city.

[Rahelron]

In the gallows - you sided with mages:

Orsino - Why they don't kill us when we are babies!
Hawke - Orsino? What are you saying?
Orsino - Look at this slaughter! The templars are killing us all!
Hawke - But we are winning... all these bodies on the ground are templar corpses...
Orsino - I'm not giving up, I'm giving in!!!
Hawke - What?
***Orsino turns to an abomination, Hawke kills him***
Hawke - "You fool". Walks away from the room. The templars are all dead.