239 réponses à ce sujet

[Mister Mida]

Savber100 wrote...
Mister Mida has asked for evidence, so I present my evidence. 

For now, I'll stick with my example of CDPR: 

During the development of The Witcher 1, the devs said

"We believe the time has come to really think about what an RPG game should look like. Which elements should it consist of, and which of them are most vital. Lately, the technical progress has exceeded all the borders, we’re able to create photorealistic graphics, but still, the attitude towards RPGs does not change. Most of developers tend to copy the clichés and fear the changes.

That is why, we decided to change the attitude. We sort of … ‘factorized’ the genre, put it into pieces. Next, we scrutinized and thought over all the aspects and tried to pick out the most important RPG features. Finally, it was our task to put them together the best way we could think of, using the latest development techniques and available technology. We’re quite aware that not all RPG fans will accept our redefinition, but that’s mostly because they’ve gotten used to clichés and certain mechanisms."

In creating the Witcher, they focused on making a good RPG. That was their foremost ambition and the ultimate goal. In fact, CDPR in 2006 went by the tagline "Witcher: RPG redefined"

So their goals are clear: make the ultimate RPG gaming experience. Then, they focused on the story which they believed was an integral part of RPGs (which I strongly agree).

Now, Bioware, on the other hand, focuses on "what makes a good story" and not "what makes a good RPG". 

It's a interesting difference and it's also why Bioware is different from other developers.  

Final Note: I'm not saying focusing on making a good RPG is bad or it equals a bad story. I'm saying that Bioware values writing a good story in a game above making a good RPG. 

Hopefully that makes some sense. 

Since I wasn't that interested in the Witcher until last year and don't know much about what CDP Red said back then I'll just accept this. However, when I hear CDP Red talk about Witcher 2, they usually talk about how they wanted to make a mature game because according to them, those aren't around as often. This is proven in the themes you see in the game's story. But I can't really see how that game has complex RPG stuff in it. Witcher (1)? Maybe. Witcher 2? Not quite. It had some design choices which I don't agree with but nothing complex.

But then again, the reason RPG is my preferred genre is because of plot, not of gameplay. If ME2 for instance had a better story, I also could've looked away from its design way better than I can now.

[darknoon5]

ThePwener wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Again with the "I'm just a fan but I know the products I play better than the developers who made them."

If Casey says it's not an RPG - and it is not - then it is not an RPG. You can either b!tch and moan about it, or you can zip it and deal with it. Your choice, pal.

Im not whining like an angry fan. Im telling you that what Casey says has to be taken with precaution. ME1, 2 and 3 are indeed RPGs. He can say wathever he likes, but if it has RPG elements and people say it is an RPG, then it is a damn RPG. Mass Effect being a shooter is incorrect.

Just because the swam has beak that look like a duck's, does not mean it's a duck.

Casy Hudson, everytime he is interviewed, says something that makes everyone scratch they're heads. He says stuff, that frankly, are innaccurate. And that as a developer makes him look bad. Plus he appears to have stage fright and talks bad on public or infront of the camera. Thus he may say stuff that is wrong.

Read my post.

darknoon5 wrote...

....Casey is by definition not exclusively an RPG designer. He created 3-D models for MDK2. A shooter. By Bioware. Yep.

Modifié par darknoon5, 04 août 2011 - 08:45 .

[ThePwener]

darknoon5 wrote...

Every post you make comes across of that of a whiny, angsty teenager with such petty insults. And the result is that you end up looking like a fool, ironically.

I have nothing against the fanbase, but he constantly says things that are wrong. And what you say really makes no difference when the other person is right.

Petty insults? Well, that "ironic" indeed because it's what you're doing.

[Weskerr]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

Assuming this is really your way of concept develolopment for your games I can understand somewhat why ME2 is the way it is. But since I think the story was disappointing, my disappointment kinda swept  over to some of the design  choices (global cooldown ammo powers, ammo), including the ones that were totally unnecessary in my book (bloated Galaxy Map).

And that's understandable, I think. Personally I also prefer the story of ME1... Saren was just such a great villain...

On the gameplay side, we learned a lot in the attempts to improve on ME1's gameplay... in retrospect we made some mistakes, however it's all a learning experience... and I think it's fairly safe to say we learned a *lot* during ME2. :happy:

Hopefully you'll find ME3 to be a great experience... I know for myself, I'm fairly excited about the story... and I haven't really had time to sit down and really take it all in quite yet.

I'm just responding to the text I put in bold, Brenon. I'm amazed you came out and said that. I've never seen a Bioware employee give such a brutally honest opinion about his/her own games saying how he/she prefers the story of one game over another. That's a compliment, not a critisism.

As for the second part I bolded, are you really only fairly excited about ME3's story?

[S.A.K]

From the article: Typically our goals - creating interactive story, compelling progression, intense combat, and exploration -result in games that are classified as RPGs.
Meaning developers don't design games to be one genre or the other. They just design the thing to be enjoyable. But because of the game plays out , it gets classified as a RPG. Mass Effect can be put under many genres like RPG, action or TPS.

[ThePwener]

darknoon5 wrote...

Read my post.

I wasn't talking to you. Stop looking for trouble.

[darknoon5]

ThePwener wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

Every post you make comes across of that of a whiny, angsty teenager with such petty insults. And the result is that you end up looking like a fool, ironically.

I have nothing against the fanbase, but he constantly says things that are wrong. And what you say really makes no difference when the other person is right.

Petty insults? Well, that "ironic" indeed because it's what you're doing.

Every game director says things that are wrong, or make promises that aren't fulfilled. See Peter Molyneux

Also, you ignored the part where you said something wrong. You said Chud was wrong saying he isn't an RPG designer where infact you, as a supposed Bioware fanboi, were wrong:

MDK2. The shooter. Casey made models for. Which isn't an RPG.

ThePwener wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

Read my post.

I wasn't talking to you. Stop looking for trouble.

Nope, I'm just correcting you. Some of your post is subjective, but it's untrue to say Casey Hudson is only an RPG designer.

Modifié par darknoon5, 04 août 2011 - 08:48 .

[Lumikki]

jreezy wrote...

Thanks for setting the record straight.

This Gatt9's situation is good example how people make they own assumption without actually knowing how it is and they do those assumtions from they own perspective. We all people do it in some degrees, we filter anything what doesn't fit in
our perspective out and see only those details what we want to see.

Gatt9's loves traditonal RPG style and there is nothing wrong in it, many of us do. How ever, when he looks Biowares games and the company it self, he looks it through traditional RPG filtered perspective and doesn't see other possibilities. In general Brenon Holmes corrections was there, because Gatt9's assumtions started to be way too far how it really is with Bioware and Biowares games.

You can't really judge any game, if you can't really see what the game really is. It would be like judging a rabbit based requirement of a dog. Rabbit isn't a dog so you can't judge it like it would be a dog. You can only judge both as a pet. Same here, Gatt9 is judging all Biowares games only based traditional RPG requirement, even if they aren't.

Modifié par Lumikki, 04 août 2011 - 08:53 .

[LGTX]

ThePwener wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Again with the "I'm just a fan but I know the products I play better than the developers who made them."

If Casey says it's not an RPG - and it is not - then it is not an RPG. You can either b!tch and moan about it, or you can zip it and deal with it. Your choice, pal.

Im not whining like an angry fan. Im telling you that what Casey says has to be taken with precaution. ME1, 2 and 3 are indeed RPGs. He can say wathever he likes, but if it has RPG elements and people say it is an RPG, then it is a damn RPG. Mass Effect being a shooter is incorrect.

Just because the swam has beak that look like a duck's, does not mean it's a duck.

Casy Hudson, everytime he is interviewed, says something that makes everyone scratch they're heads. He says stuff, that frankly, are innaccurate. And that as a developer makes him look bad. Plus he appears to have stage fright and talks bad on public or infront of the camera. Thus he may say stuff that is wrong.

I'm missing the point of the discussion. You're arguing over which genre definition to plaster on the game, but regardless, the game remains what it is. Who cares if different people interpret and classify it differently?

[Bnol]

ThePwener wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Again with the "I'm just a fan but I know the products I play better than the developers who made them."

If Casey says it's not an RPG - and it is not - then it is not an RPG. You can either b!tch and moan about it, or you can zip it and deal with it. Your choice, pal.

Im not whining like an angry fan. Im telling you that what Casey says has to be taken with precaution. ME1, 2 and 3 are indeed RPGs. He can say wathever he likes, but if it has RPG elements and people say it is an RPG, then it is a damn RPG. Mass Effect being a shooter is incorrect.

Just because the swam has beak that look like a duck's, does not mean it's a duck.

Casy Hudson, everytime he is interviewed, says something that makes everyone scratch they're heads. He says stuff, that frankly, are innaccurate. And that as a developer makes him look bad. Plus he appears to have stage fright and talks bad on public or infront of the camera. Thus he may say stuff that is wrong.

What he said is his own opinion of how he views himself as a video game developer and not an RPG developer.  Not sure why that would cause you to scratch your head or why it would make him look bad.  His self view of himself cannot be wrong, as it is his opinion.  Whether you agree with it or not is another thing. 

[ThePwener]

darknoon5 wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

Every post you make comes across of that of a whiny, angsty teenager with such petty insults. And the result is that you end up looking like a fool, ironically.

I have nothing against the fanbase, but he constantly says things that are wrong. And what you say really makes no difference when the other person is right.

Petty insults? Well, that "ironic" indeed because it's what you're doing.

Every game director says things that are wrong, or make promises that aren't fulfilled. See Peter Molyneux

Also, you ignored the part where you said something wrong. You said Chud was wrong saying he isn't an RPG designer where infact you, as a supposed Bioware fanboi, were wrong:

MDK2. The shooter. Casey made models for. Which isn't an RPG.

You must have me confused with someone else buddy. Gain, stop looking for trouble. And it's fanboy. I know it's the internet, but grammer is still important. And Im not a BW "fanboi". Never said I was either. Never heard of MDK2 either.

[didymos1120]

ThePwener wrote...
 Im telling you that what Casey says has to be taken with precaution. ME1, 2 and 3 are indeed RPGs. He can say wathever he likes, but if it has RPG elements and people say it is an RPG, then it is a damn RPG. Mass Effect being a shooter is incorrect.

Quiz time:

In this interview which we are discussing herein, did Casey say:

a. He doesn't think of himself as an RPG developer
b. Bioware isn't an RPG-making studio.
c. The ME games aren't RPGs
d. ME is just a shooter.

?

Hint: Read the interview to learn the answer!

Modifié par didymos1120, 04 août 2011 - 08:52 .

[didymos1120]

ThePwener wrote...

 I know it's the internet, but grammer is still important.

What about spelling?

[ThePwener]

@Arcian: Did you see the E3 reveal of ME3? He was talking like a 6 year old.

First you say it's not an RPG, now you say it is. Man, get your head straight. And when I said "innaccurate" I meant the past. Never said a thing about ME3.

[Icinix]

ThePwener wrote...
... he appears to have stage fright and talks bad on public or infront of the camera. Thus he may say stuff that is wrong.

Casey Hudson is accused of a lot of things..but "talks bad" is certainly not one of them that holds any weight.

Also - there is quite a large, varied group of people protesting vigilantly day and night that ME3 is losing its RPG feel, and this is bad.

So to them, Casey Hudson is certainly entirely accurately.

[ThePwener]

didymos1120 wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

 I know it's the internet, but grammer is still important.

What about spelling?

Yeah, also important, wathever.

[darknoon5]

ThePwener wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

Every post you make comes across of that of a whiny, angsty teenager with such petty insults. And the result is that you end up looking like a fool, ironically.

I have nothing against the fanbase, but he constantly says things that are wrong. And what you say really makes no difference when the other person is right.

Petty insults? Well, that "ironic" indeed because it's what you're doing.

Every game director says things that are wrong, or make promises that aren't fulfilled. See Peter Molyneux

Also, you ignored the part where you said something wrong. You said Chud was wrong saying he isn't an RPG designer where infact you, as a supposed Bioware fanboi, were wrong:

MDK2. The shooter. Casey made models for. Which isn't an RPG.

You must have me confused with someone else buddy. Gain, stop looking for trouble. And it's fanboy. I know it's the internet, but grammer is still important. And Im not a BW "fanboi". Never said I was either. Never heard of MDK2 either.

Nope, no confusion. Also, fanboi is ironic. It's meant to be misspelled. Learn how to spell "grammar" before making a fool out of yourself.

ThePwener wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Mass Effect is not an RPG. It never was and never will be.

Casey
Hudson not being an "RPG designer" is just another example of the fool
he makes himself and BW look like when he is interviewed.

You cleary said this, which was wrong, I corrected you by showing Casey does not make himself look like a fool when he says he is not an RPG designer as that is 100% true and supported by the fact he has helped design game that are not RPG's.

Modifié par darknoon5, 04 août 2011 - 08:56 .

[ThePwener]

Icinix wrote...

Casey Hudson is accused of a lot of things..but "talks bad" is certainly not one of them that holds any weight.

I take it you did not see the ME3 E3 reveal. He repeated the same thing for 2 flat minutes. Dodges questions that can be easily asweared for no reason. The guy is a bad public speaker.

[Lumikki]

didymos1120 wrote...

Quiz time:

In this interview which we are discussing herein, did Casey say:

a. He doesn't think of himself as an RPG developer
b. Bioware isn't an RPG-making studio.
c. The ME games aren't RPGs
d. ME is just a shooter.

?

Hint: Read the interview to learn the answer!

I choose: a)

Do I win something?

[ThePwener]

Arcian wrote...

Nope, I'm saying it's a hybrid.

No, NOW you say it's a hybrid. A few posts ago you claimed "it wasn't an RPG and never will". Consistency is very important in a discussion. You look very bad by changing mid discussion.

And all this foolishness gave me a headache. Going to bed now.

Modifié par ThePwener, 04 août 2011 - 09:00 .

[Lumikki]

Arcian wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

First you say it's not an RPG, now you say it is.

Nope, I'm saying it's a hybrid.

It's ACTION RPG or more correct RPS what is sub-genre of action RPG. Hybrid of action RPG and shooter combat.

Modifié par Lumikki, 04 août 2011 - 09:04 .