183 réponses à ce sujet

[S.A.K]

In Legions loyalty mission you can either re-write or destroy the geth in the heretic station. I consider geth to be a life form but deferent from organics. But is it right to brain wash an entire race? If you destroy that station will it destroy all the heretic geth? Will the geth be friendly in ME3 and peace with quarians possible if you re-write them?
Discuss....

P.S: Keep fights to a minimum.

Modifié par S.A.K, 03 août 2011 - 02:37 .

[LPPrince]

Maybe. We'll see what the results are in ME3.

I rewrote them.

[CroGamer002]

Neither choice is morally good.


It's either genocide or brainwashing.



Also for in-game consequences?
Maybe big part of True Geth won't like the idea for brainwashing them and effect negatively for you trying to get them Allied.

Modifié par Mesina2, 03 août 2011 - 06:37 .

[Biotic Sage]

I rewrote them too. After talking with Legion about AI, I decided that even though AI is to be respected as life in the same way we should respect organic life, there is a difference that should be noted. Ethically, rewriting the Geth is not an analogous dilemma to "brainwashing" sapient, organic life. Since Geth are consciously aware of "consensus building," there is no illusion of free-will. Organics have the illusion of free-will because our consensus building is all done at the subconscious level. So when I rewrote the Geth I didn't take away their free-will. But, I guess since I believe organics don't REALLY have free-will either, just the illusion of choice, it's kind of the same thing...and....oh god, I've made a terrible mistake!!!

[LiquidLogic2020]

I rewrote them to help fight against the reapers, were gonna need all the help we can get. Although I can see it bitting me in the ass if the quarians go to war with the geth.

Modifié par LiquidLogic2020, 03 août 2011 - 06:40 .

[Terumitsu]

There is no actual right answer to this question.

There is only the choice and the rationalization that leads you to this choice.

My rationalization is that, as geth are really one organism made of software with many hardware bodies to interact with the world. The 'heretics', were a sliver of the mind that decided to go counter to what the main whole was for. Now, to explain this in psycological terms would be like saying a part of your own mind suddenly deciding to work differently. In fact, there is a condition called 'dissasociative identity disorder' that is very similar to this. Now, given how the geth work, they are able to seperate themselves from this new identity so that no real damage can be done due to conflicting agendas. However, as I see the geth as a whole, I still saw the heretics as said identity disorder. To my mind, rewriting them means 'curing' the disorder and allowing the main geth mind function as a greater whole once more.

The idea that the heretics might also have information on the Reapers that could be used later was a secondary idea as well but it did not play a very large part in this decision making process.

Anyway, that's what I thought on the matter.

Modifié par Terumitsu, 03 août 2011 - 06:56 .

[Clonedzero]

i used to always rewrite them.

then the last time i did it i brought along Garrus (usually brought tali), and Garrus says when you first enter the geth station "isn't rewriting them dangerously close to indoctrination?" and i was like "damn garrus you're right!"

so now i say blowing them up is the right thing. reprogramming them is absolutely messed up. its brainwashing and removing their freedom. blowing them up is simply a military choice, you're at war with them, so you're just taking out an objective.

[S.A.K]

Mesina2 wrote...

Neither choice is morally good.
It's either genocide or brainwashing.
Also for in-game consequences?
Maybe big part of True Geth won't like the idea for brainwashing them and effect negatively for you trying to get them Allied.

Thanks for sharing that. You can learn a lot from it about everything.

Clonedzero wrote...

i used to always rewrite them.

then
the last time i did it i brought along Garrus (usually brought tali),
and Garrus says when you first enter the geth station "isn't rewriting
them dangerously close to indoctrination?" and i was like "damn garrus
you're right!"

so now i say blowing them up is the right thing.
reprogramming them is absolutely messed up. its brainwashing and
removing their freedom. blowing them up is simply a military choice,
you're at war with them, so you're just taking out an objective.

I never tried bring garrus for that mission. But you brought up a really good point. Now I can't deside either way. Made me think a lot.

[GodWood]

This is probably the only choice where I could go with either option.

Rewriting the geth gives you a larger geth army, eliminates the Heretics and [potentially] gives you access to what the geth learned about Sovereign and/or the Reapers.
However it also empowers the geth (a negative if you see them as a threat) and has the risk of the heretics memories 'infecting' the rest of the geth.

Blowing up the geth shrinks their army (a postive if you see them as a threat) and eliminates the possibility of the heretics infecting the rest of the geth.
However it shrinks potential Reaper canon fodder and even if you blow up the base pockets of heretics still exist.

OR

You can look at it from a stupid moral point of view and go:

Brainwashing is bad
Killing is bad

Oh noes wahh wahh wahh

[Admoniter]

For me brainwashing them was just overdoing it... atleast for my main Shep. They were enemies and seeing as they could not be reasoned with my only course of action is to blow them up. Besides ignoring the morality of this I am skeptical of the long term effects of the rewrite. What's to stop the heretics from doing the same thing over again and is there anything contained within the true geths memories/experiences/etc... that will corrupt or otherwise cause the true geth to become what the heretics embodied. Too many unknowns for my taste especially considering the shape of the galaxy and what is to come.

[DarthSliver]

Id rather rewrite the Geth, its better than turning them into scrap.

[TobiTobsen]

GodWood wrote...

This is probably the only choice where I could go with either option.

Rewriting the geth gives you a larger geth army, eliminates the Heretics and [potentially] gives you access to what the geth learned about Sovereign and/or the Reapers.
However it also empowers the geth (a negative if you see them as a threat) and has the risk of the heretics memories 'infecting' the rest of the geth.

Blowing up the geth shrinks their army (a postive if you see them as a threat) and eliminates the possibility of the heretics infecting the rest of the geth.
However it shrinks potential Reaper canon fodder and even if you blow up the base pockets of heretics still exist.

This.

Both options have the potential to backfire horribly.

[Sisterofshane]

Wow, you just opened a BIG can of worms...LOL.
What is life?
Is being brain-washed better than death?

One thing I will say that I always considered is that Legion says that over-writing will not make them forget that they once followed Sovereign.  They will eventually return to the "true" network, and share all of their experiences with the Geth who never followed Sovereign in the first place.

In one of my playthroughs I considered the possibilty that they may have some knowledge of sovereign that will help us to defeat the coming Reapers, and so I rewrote them.

In another one of my playthroughs, I thought that maybe it wouldn't be so good if all of the true geth were somehow altered in a way that would be detrimental to our war effort by the sharing of the heretics experiences. So, I destroyed them.

[Clonedzero]

for choices like this, i really wish it didnt show the paragon / renegade choice by the placement on the wheel. like you know blowing them up is the renegade choice since its at the bottom.

instead they should put one on the right middle and the other on the left middle.

[Weskerr]

Mesina2 wrote...

Neither choice is morally good.


It's either genocide or brainwashing.

Brainwashing, yes. Genocide - not at all. The heretic Geth are a small percentage of the Geth and they have been openly hostile and violant towards other species. So killing them is only killing a small percentage of the Geth as a whole - and therefore not genocide - and is also a response to an act of war. Killing the enemy in a war is not immoral, but a strategically sound objective. And as all the heretic Geth are soldiers, there is no fear of killing innocent civilians.

[Kaiser Shepard]

TobiTobsen wrote...

GodWood wrote...

This is probably the only choice where I could go with either option.

Rewriting the geth gives you a larger geth army, eliminates the Heretics and [potentially] gives you access to what the geth learned about Sovereign and/or the Reapers.
However it also empowers the geth (a negative if you see them as a threat) and has the risk of the heretics memories 'infecting' the rest of the geth.

Blowing up the geth shrinks their army (a postive if you see them as a threat) and eliminates the possibility of the heretics infecting the rest of the geth.
However it shrinks potential Reaper canon fodder and even if you blow up the base pockets of heretics still exist.

This.

Both options have the potential to backfire horribly.

Not precisely. It's rather obvious which deal you're getting when you blow the heretics up, rewriting them no so much... The way Legion words it, there being a "sub-zero chance" of rewriting turning out to bite you in the ass, basically confirms that it'll have negative repercussions in ME3.

[Kane Corr]

To me, the geth aren't comparable to human morality and code. It's not the same "brainwashing" as is doing it to a human. The geth were created.(parts, robotic sense)..they learn in their own way. That does NOT make them human. Not one bit. So, I rewrote them. Saw the benefit in having many troops on our side......seeing as there are sentient machines coming who overpower us in every way...

The more allies you have, better off you'll be.

Modifié par Kane Corr, 03 août 2011 - 07:08 .

[MarauderESP]

i rewrite them, as legion said they can get to think the same way again and this time arround bring more geth with them, so i take it as a gamble, if works good if not, im gonna have a little problem.... ^^

[Weskerr]

Kane Corr wrote...

To me, the geth aren't comparable to human morality and code. It's not the same "brainwashing" as is doing it to a human. The geth were created...they learn in their own way. That does NOT make them human. Not one bit. So, I rewrote them. Saw the benefit in having many troops on our side......seeing as their are sentient machines coming who overpower us in every way...

The more allies you have, better of you'll be.

The OP isn't asking about practicality, but about right vs. wrong. Sure, rewriting the Geth will give you an advantage, but it is nothing less than brainwashing. They made the choice to side with the Reapers.

Being human or machine is irrelevant. What matters is sentience. The Asari, Quarians, Krogan, Salarians etc... are not human, but they all have sentience.

[CroGamer002]

Weskerr wrote...

Brainwashing, yes. Genocide - not at all. The heretic Geth are a small percentage of the Geth and they have been openly hostile and violant towards other species. So killing them is only killing a small percentage of the Geth as a whole - and therefore not genocide - and is also a response to an act of war. Killing the enemy in a war is not immoral, but a strategically sound objective. And as all the heretic Geth are soldiers, there is no fear of killing innocent civilians.

You're killing Geth faction called Heretics.

So it's like killing a nation and big part of it.
It's genocide or at least ethnic cleansing, which is just as bad.


Just because it's a good military action, it doesn't mean it's morally good.

[TobiTobsen]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Not precisely. It's rather obvious which deal you're getting when you blow the heretics up, rewriting them no so much... The way Legion words it, there being a "sub-zero chance" of rewriting turning out to bite you in the ass, basically confirms that it'll have negative repercussions in ME3.

If there are still pockets of heretics they still can spread their virus into the network of the other geth. Don't think that blowing them is much safer then rewriting them.

[.jpg.exe]

They had been interfered with already in much the same way the rachni were, giving them the choice to decide their own fate is the morally correct choice regardless what the masses say and the general consensus of the other ingame protagonists.

[Kaiser Shepard]

TobiTobsen wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Not precisely. It's rather obvious which deal you're getting when you blow the heretics up, rewriting them no so much... The way Legion words it, there being a "sub-zero chance" of rewriting turning out to bite you in the ass, basically confirms that it'll have negative repercussions in ME3.

If there are still pockets of heretics they still can spread their virus into the network of the other geth. Don't think that blowing them is much safer then rewriting them.

The way the mission was set up implied that there was only one copy of the virus; the one on the (one of a kind) Reaper blue box McGuffin given to the heretics by Sovereign/Nazara.

.jpg.exe wrote...

They had been interfered with already in much the same way the rachni were, giving them the choice to decide their own fate is the morally correct choice regardless what the masses say and the general consensus of the other ingame protagonists.

They had not interfered with like the rachni were; those were simply indoctrinated, whereas the geth were offered an alternate means of reaching their goal and some of them took it. To simplify: the 'heretic' geth willing sided with the Reapers, they weren't brainwashed in any way or shape. Not until your Shepard came along, that is.

[JoHnDoE14]

Despite mostly being a paragon, I eliminated them. It at least gives them the chance to fight for their lives and it is certainly safer than brainwashing them.

[SkittlesKat96]

Well I'm not sure if it was the right thing to do, both seem like necessary 'evils' I suppose. But I guess it depends on whether you care much about the Geth and think they have the rights that organics have (of which I myself don't really have an answer for.)

I think its a good decision though, but it might change the situation between the Geth and Quarians a little bit though (for good or bad.)