278 réponses à ce sujet

[The Twilight God]

Il Divo wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

I never said it was a secondary kenetic barrier. Normal barriers are set to allow for slow moving objects to pass. That arm mounted shield is not. It's purpose is to stop everything which isn't a practical function is you are actually wearing the shield.

Apologies for misinterpreting your statement then, but I have to ask what is the argument? Based on the shadowbroker, that would be a clear indicator that the omnitool is capable of manifesting solid objects, in which case the omniblade would fall under the same logic (or lack of logic, depending on your standpoint).

It is not a solid object. It is a kenetic barrier field. Like the force repleeing two postively charged magnets. It would be akward to have a shield you could not see and had to guess where its protection began or ended. Or run the risk of thinking you hit the on button, but in reality didn't hit it hard enough and it's actually off. Even kenetic barrier have a quick 1 second visual indication to signify they are active. The hologram simply displays its active range. It's just for show. No solid matter necessary.

[Someone With Mass]

So...the "holographic" blade is a problem, but the space ships that can use dark energy to go from one side of the galaxy to another, traveling trillions and trillions of kilometers in a matter of seconds without colliding with something like black holes, asteroids, planets, stars, nebula or super novas on the way there aren't a problem?

Not to mention that it's physically impossible to change the mass of an object without changing its physical properties or shape.

The only thing I don't like about the omni-blade is the shape. Looks a little silly.

And if you have such huge problems with it, then don't use it. Use the chained weapon melee attacks instead.

[SpiffySquee]

The Twilight God wrote...

An omni-tool can be modified. Who is to say the SB had a commercial mass produced omni-tool if it was an omni-toll at all.

As I said previously, an AI drone can be a tiny drone projecting a holographic shell. Tech holograms let the user and the opponent know its up and running. And I must stress that a hologram is by definition immaterial. If it is solid it is NOT a hologram. If it's not a hologram it's literally D&D magic.

As I mentioned in another post. Shepard pushes against the SB's forearm. At no point does he push against the outer perimeter of the hologram.

And I've been saying that we have seen holograms with substance since the first scene of ME1. So perhaps, they misunderstood the definition of a hologram, does not change the fact that this was established a long time ago.

You don't need a huge hologram around you to know your tech armor is running. that is what a HUD is for. You don't have some holographic display to know your shields are up. All it would do is alert enemies, and that is bad, so it must serve some other purpose.

So a hologram with substance is D&D magic, and an element that reduces mass is....

My point is, both of these ideas have been established since the start of the series, and people are only now having problems with it.

Modifié par SpiffySquee, 04 août 2011 - 11:52 .

[SojournerN7]

DoomMech wrote...
BUT I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF A HARD SCI-FI UNIVERSE YOU CAN HAVE A "HOLOGRAHIC SWITCHBLADE"

I didn't realize that Mass Effect was Science Non-Fiction. I didn't see any point in melee weapons, but it looks like it's implemented fairly well. If someone wants it, let 'em have it.

[SpiffySquee]

The Twilight God wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

I never said it was a secondary kenetic barrier. Normal barriers are set to allow for slow moving objects to pass. That arm mounted shield is not. It's purpose is to stop everything which isn't a practical function is you are actually wearing the shield.

Apologies for misinterpreting your statement then, but I have to ask what is the argument? Based on the shadowbroker, that would be a clear indicator that the omnitool is capable of manifesting solid objects, in which case the omniblade would fall under the same logic (or lack of logic, depending on your standpoint).

It is not a solid object. It is a kenetic barrier field. Like the force repleeing two postively charged magnets. It would be akward to have a shield you could not see and had to guess where its protection began or ended. Or run the risk of thinking you hit the on button, but in reality didn't hit it hard enough and it's actually off. Even kenetic barrier have a quick 1 second visual indication to signify they are active. The hologram simply displays its active range. It's just for show. No solid matter necessary.

Again you are completely ignoring the idea that even a kenetic barrier can be used to pierce things if shaped correctly. If it has enough stability to literally slam away a charging Shepard, it can be used to pierce objects if refined down to a point.

[Therefore_I_Am]

The Omni blade is completely justifiable. Whether you like it or not.

Deal With It.

Modifié par Therefore_I_Am, 04 août 2011 - 11:57 .

[Iakus]

Someone With Mass wrote...

So...the "holographic" blade is a problem, but the space ships that can use dark energy to go from one side of the galaxy to another, traveling trillions and trillions of kilometers in a matter of seconds without colliding with something like black holes, asteroids, planets, stars, nebula or super novas on the way there aren't a problem?

Not to mention that it's physically impossible to change the mass of an object without changing its physical properties or shape.

The only thing I don't like about the omni-blade is the shape. Looks a little silly.

And if you have such huge problems with it, then don't use it. Use the chained weapon melee attacks instead.

The blade isn't holographic, but the orange glow makes it look like it is, which is really, really, silly.  I'd hope something would be done to make it look more, I dunno weapon-like.  But given it's practically an anchor to ME3 advertising, I'm thinking that ship has sailed.

At any rate, the blade is from what I understand a monomolecular blade created with the omnitool.  I guess that works in the ME lore, but its appearance leaves much to be desired.  the Soldier blade looks like something out of TRON and the Sentinel, well, let's just say it's got me wondering if teh new tech armor graphic is yellow with black stripes and if mutton chops are now a hair option for Shepard.

[The Twilight God]

SpiffySquee wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Someone asked why no one complained about sentinel shields, drones or the SB shield. I am replying to that sentiment. The other holograms can be explained within the context of the mass effect universe. The omniblade is pure Lord of the Rings magic. No way around it.

To your other question, omni-tools appearantly applies medi-gel at range through some sophisticated use of scanning tech and mass effect fields. Overload causes a electromagnetic blast whose epicenter spreads from a singular point in space next to enemies. Using omni-gel to open containers which does not require direct physical contact. So, yes, the omni-tool can do things from a distance. Another way to look at it is gameplay mechanics necessitating  this.

 I'll give you the medi-gel since I see your point, though I've always had to activated a container to open it with omni-gel, which would count as touching it, and shorting out someone's shields is not the same as building something at any time or location from 20 feet away.  For your theory to be right, the omni tool can build a machine out of the sands of Tachanka, or from the solid smooth floor of a collector platform since I can summon a drone in both of those locations and it materializes no where near me. This also does not explain why My melee attack stops at the outside shell of the drone. According to you it would pass right through to the core.

Even if you are right, then the omni tool can just as easily create a metal core surrounded by a holographic design for the omni blade.

You never touch anything with omni-gel. You push a button on the tool and it happens. If we can give omni-gel the benefit of the doubt and say Shepard rubs it in then you must extend that to AI drones. A drone small enough to go unnoticed launchs out like a bullet, stops in mid flight and then projects its hologram to draw attention to itself. As far as where you melee attack stops I have to chalk that up to programming; the way bioware set the model collision for gameplay reasons. Although I'm sure there is enough clipping to spin that argument either way. Also, it may be generating a mass effect field that isn't set to allow slow moving objects in. Since it's not a person it has no reason to have a field that allows anything through.

The overload is a point explosion. It erupts from a point in space. It's not like electricity just appears all over the enemy from within as if some invisible electromagnetic waves are directed at the enemy. Something has to be happening at that epicenter that is being generated by the omni-tool. Is it some kind of tiny capacitor bomb launched? A micro emp bomb? Your guess is as good as mine.

[DoomMech]

Okay, explaination time!

I have some plausible explanations for Tech Armor, Combat Drones, and the Incenerate/Cryo Blast powers:

Tech Armor: Your Omni-tool manufactures a layer of explosive ablative armor, while boosting your sheilds tenfold. the holograms covering your body serve as indicators that it's "on" (enemies zero in on you anyway, even if you dress in camoflouge). It could serve as DISTRACTION SHEPARD, because while they are uselessly shooting at you, your squaddies are shooting at them.

Combat Drones: your Omni-tool assembles a small, armed, hovering robot with a holographic bubble projected around it. You want enemies to notice it, because then they are not shooting at you for crucial seconds.

Incinerate/Cryo blast: A barely contained ball of super-heated incendiary material/Bose-Einstein Condensate is manufactured and launched, much in the same way tech mines were in ME1, but with a rudimentury guidance system to arc around cover. 

[The Twilight God]

Someone With Mass wrote...

So...the "holographic" blade is a problem, but the space ships that can use dark energy to go from one side of the galaxy to another, traveling trillions and trillions of kilometers in a matter of seconds without colliding with something like black holes, asteroids, planets, stars, nebula or super novas on the way there aren't a problem?

Not to mention that it's physically impossible to change the mass of an object without changing its physical properties or shape.

The only thing I don't like about the omni-blade is the shape. Looks a little silly.

And if you have such huge problems with it, then don't use it. Use the chained weapon melee attacks instead.

Within the mass effect universe that is possible. Nobody is saying there is a problem with mass effect not being based on real life (i.e. having interstellar travel period). You're grasping at straws.

[SpiffySquee]

The Twilight God wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Someone asked why no one complained about sentinel shields, drones or the SB shield. I am replying to that sentiment. The other holograms can be explained within the context of the mass effect universe. The omniblade is pure Lord of the Rings magic. No way around it.

To your other question, omni-tools appearantly applies medi-gel at range through some sophisticated use of scanning tech and mass effect fields. Overload causes a electromagnetic blast whose epicenter spreads from a singular point in space next to enemies. Using omni-gel to open containers which does not require direct physical contact. So, yes, the omni-tool can do things from a distance. Another way to look at it is gameplay mechanics necessitating  this.

 I'll give you the medi-gel since I see your point, though I've always had to activated a container to open it with omni-gel, which would count as touching it, and shorting out someone's shields is not the same as building something at any time or location from 20 feet away.  For your theory to be right, the omni tool can build a machine out of the sands of Tachanka, or from the solid smooth floor of a collector platform since I can summon a drone in both of those locations and it materializes no where near me. This also does not explain why My melee attack stops at the outside shell of the drone. According to you it would pass right through to the core.

Even if you are right, then the omni tool can just as easily create a metal core surrounded by a holographic design for the omni blade.

You never touch anything with omni-gel. You push a button on the tool and it happens. If we can give omni-gel the benefit of the doubt and say Shepard rubs it in then you must extend that to AI drones. A drone small enough to go unnoticed launchs out like a bullet, stops in mid flight and then projects its hologram to draw attention to itself. As far as where you melee attack stops I have to chalk that up to programming; the way bioware set the model collision for gameplay reasons. Although I'm sure there is enough clipping to spin that argument either way. Also, it may be generating a mass effect field that isn't set to allow slow moving objects in. Since it's not a person it has no reason to have a field that allows anything through.

The overload is a point explosion. It erupts from a point in space. It's not like electricity just appears all over the enemy from within as if some invisible electromagnetic waves are directed at the enemy. Something has to be happening at that epicenter that is being generated by the omni-tool. Is it some kind of tiny capacitor bomb launched? A micro emp bomb? Your guess is as good as mine.

Then, what about this, the omni blade manufactures a small, strong blade that is hard to see with the eye. Thus, a hologram is put over it so you don't stab yourself with it? Anything hard to swallow there? (honestly asking, since I don't know if that has been suggested)

Modifié par SpiffySquee, 05 août 2011 - 12:08 .

[Iakus]

The Twilight God wrote...


The overload is a point explosion. It erupts from a point in space. It's not like electricity just appears all over the enemy from within as if some invisible electromagnetic waves are directed at the enemy. Something has to be happening at that epicenter that is being generated by the omni-tool. Is it some kind of tiny capacitor bomb launched? A micro emp bomb? Your guess is as good as mine.

Well in ME1, the omnitool fires a "tech grenade" which caused the explosion, a lot of the tech powers operated like that...

Modifié par iakus, 05 août 2011 - 12:07 .

[cyclospdias]

i believe that if an omni tooll cna construct and stor eobjects,its solid,therefore the blade would be solid as well,maybe carbon molecules shaped as a blade by a magnetic field???

The blade itself could be stored in the omni tool like a swiss knife.

[Someone With Mass]

I don't think it's possible to create nodes of some material that's sensitive to electric signals inside a person's brain without giving the poor guy brain damage or permanently turn him into a vegetable (especially when it mostly happens naturally), but I'm willing to give Mass Effect the benefit of the doubt, since it's a science fiction game.

[Someone With Mass]

The Twilight God wrote...

Within the mass effect universe that is possible. Nobody is saying there is a problem with mass effect not being based on real life (i.e. having interstellar travel period). You're grasping at straws.

No, what I mean is that people should learn to have some suspension of disbelief or just outright ignore it if it doesn't make any sense.

That's what I'm doing, anyway.

[The Twilight God]

SpiffySquee wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

An omni-tool can be modified. Who is to say the SB had a commercial mass produced omni-tool if it was an omni-toll at all.

As I said previously, an AI drone can be a tiny drone projecting a holographic shell. Tech holograms let the user and the opponent know its up and running. And I must stress that a hologram is by definition immaterial. If it is solid it is NOT a hologram. If it's not a hologram it's literally D&D magic.

As I mentioned in another post. Shepard pushes against the SB's forearm. At no point does he push against the outer perimeter of the hologram.

And I've been saying that we have seen holograms with substance since the first scene of ME1. So perhaps, they misunderstood the definition of a hologram, does not change the fact that this was established a long time ago.

You don't need a huge hologram around you to know your tech armor is running. that is what a HUD is for. You don't have some holographic display to know your shields are up. All it would do is alert enemies, and that is bad, so it must serve some other purpose.

My point is, both of these ideas have been established since the start of the series, and people are only now having problems with it.

There have been no holograms with substance ever in the history of mass effect. So I guess I'm saying you're wrong.

The HUD is something the player sees, not Shepard. Wearing a helmet everywhere isn't canon. My Shepard doesn't wear helmets unless in an unbreathable atmosphere or vaccuum. Where is his HUD in all the other situations?

Concerning the visual display of tech armor, what I need and what is not absolutely required are not mutually exclusive, The desginer wanted the shield to have a fancy display. Is that unheard of? The fact remains that objects made of light that magically float in the air is an Everquest spell. No way around it. It's completely idiotic. If you want to believe that be my guess. But the point of this thread is that omni-blades are stupid. And it is stupid. If you want to add tech armor to the stupid bin be my guess. I'll continue applying some sense of technological continuity.

SpiffySquee wrote...

So a hologram with substance is D&D magic, and an element that reduces mass is....

...Something that exists in the ME universe and makes sense within the context of the mass effect universe. The game itself is named after it. If you have to deconstruct the entire concept of a science fiction universe to make a point you have no point to make. If you're just arguing for the sake of arguing don't bother. You may not accept my ideas, but you can't really argue against them either. You chose to believe what you want. That's fine by me. It's just a matter or denial or acceptance.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 05 août 2011 - 01:13 .

[DoomMech]

By the way, quick question: Where is footage for the sentinel's two fisted falcon punch FALCON PAWNCH!? and other melee attacks?

[Someone With Mass]

DoomMech wrote...

By the way, quick question: Where is footage for the sentinel's two fisted falcon punch FALCON PAWNCH!? and other melee attacks?

[DoomMech]

Someone With Mass wrote...

DoomMech wrote...

By the way, quick question: Where is footage for the sentinel's two fisted falcon punch FALCON PAWNCH!? and other melee attacks?

It's SUPER SHEPARD!

Yeah I know it's a beta but three questions:

Do Geth get Omni-blades?
Is this some crazy beta test multiclass?
Why won't the mattock retract?

[DoomMech]

Double post

Modifié par DoomMech, 05 août 2011 - 12:36 .

[Someone With Mass]

DoomMech wrote...

It's SUPER SHEPARD!

Yeah I know it's a beta but three questions:

Do Geth get Omni-blades?
Is this some crazy beta test multiclass?
Why won't the mattock retract?

1. Uncertain.
2. Pretty much.
3. Bug/placeholder/the animation wasn't present. 

[SpiffySquee]

The Twilight God wrote...


There have been no holograms with substance ever in the history of mass effect. So I guess I'm saying you're wrong.

Joke has always piloted the ship by pressing controls on a holographic interface. He even slams his fist against it at one point. Their fingers always stop on the holographic display, so either, there are all geniuses at stopping their hands in mid air or they meet resistance on the display. So I would say you are wrong. They have been established since the first cut scene of the game.

You, on the other hand, have to invent complex theories to explain everything from combat drones, to tech armor just to fit your ideas of how the game should be. The omni tool spits out some small machine 20 feet and THEN forms a holographic shell, when there would be no reason to form one from the get go. It might have mass effect fields to stop melee attacks... it might just be programing error from the game designers.

It's not a holographic shield, it is a kinetic barrier that comes from a special omni tool that only the shadow broker has because no other omni tools that we know of also have kinetic barriers  and it is only effective if Shepard is pushing on the arm instead of any other part of the shield.

The Tech armor holographic image it is a pretty design choice made by a military manufacturer that cares more about making their solders look good then function. Shepard knows when his/her shields are up, but apparently can't tell if the tech armor is up unless there are shiny lights everywhere.

....and you call the omni blade stupid? 

[DoomMech]

SpiffySquee wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...


There have been no holograms with substance ever in the history of mass effect. So I guess I'm saying you're wrong.

Joke has always piloted the ship by pressing controls on a holographic interface. He even slams his fist against it at one point. Their fingers always stop on the holographic display, so either, there are all geniuses at stopping their hands in mid air or they meet resistance on the display. So I would say you are wrong. They have been established since the first cut scene of the game.

You, on the other hand, have to invent complex theories to explain everything from combat drones, to tech armor just to fit your ideas of how the game should be. The omni tool spits out some small machine 20 feet and THEN forms a holographic shell, when there would be no reason to form one from the get go. It might have mass effect fields to stop melee attacks... it might just be programing error from the game designers.

It's not a holographic shield, it is a kinetic barrier that comes from a special omni tool that only the shadow broker has because no other omni tools that we know of also have kinetic barriers  and it is only effective if Shepard is pushing on the arm instead of any other part of the shield.

The Tech armor holographic image it is a pretty design choice made by a military manufacturer that cares more about making their solders look good then function. Shepard knows when his/her shields are up, but apparently can't tell if the tech armor is up unless there are shiny lights everywhere.

....and you call the omni blade stupid? 

Joker has force feedback thingies built into his hands. The codex even says that computers use sensors and accelerometers to determine were your hands are in relation to the "keyboard", and whether that wave of the hand was to move the display aside, or push a button on the display. And the tech armor thing; I already offered an explaination fourteen posts ago.

Modifié par DoomMech, 05 août 2011 - 01:04 .

[Someone With Mass]

That still doesn't explain how they're able to "tap" the screens and know when and where to stop their fingers.

[Il Divo]

DoomMech wrote...

Joker has force feedback thingies built into his hands. The codex even says that computers use sensors and accelerometers to determine were your hands are in relation to the "keyboard", and whether that wave of the hand was to move the display aside, or push a button on the display. And the tech armor thing; I already offered an explaination fourteen posts ago.

This is true, but it wouldn't account for how Joker was able to slam his hand on a holographic display, which the codex doesn't actually explain.

Edit: Plus, what Someone with Mass said.

Modifié par Il Divo, 05 août 2011 - 01:08 .