11 réponses à ce sujet

[jamesp81]

From the DA2's in game info, we know a bit about Reavers:

"Life is power. Blood Mages know this, but they are not the only ones. Warriors can also command the energy that flows through blood and bone, but it is not an easy path. The Reaver specialization trades pain for strength in a constant balance of selfish sacrifice. At first it seems that Reavers are doing the work of their enemies, damaging themselves in gruesome fashion. But Reavers can transform their own living essence into raw damage, and then replenish that health by stealing the life from their foes. It's a dangerous gamble that counts on added strength to destroy enemies before incoming attacks or the Reavers' own abilities kill them. At its best, the Reaver specialization results in a brutal harmony. The closer they are to their own deaths, the more efficient they are at inflicting the same on others."

Also, there is this:

"A true reaver has tasted the ritually prepared blood of a dragon. It is more than a state of mind. These fearsome warriors revel in death, regaining energy from the suffering of their foes."

It's interesting that blood magic is referenced.  It's also worth noting that being a Reaver is not merely a state of mind, but a set of skills that allows a warrior to manipulate energy associated with blood and death.  I'm wondering if the Templars would consider these talents to be tantamount to blood magic?  Reavers have apparently drank of ritually prepared dragon's blood, so it's sounding a lot like blood magic to me.

Maybe it doesn't count as blood magic if it's not human, elven, dwarven, or qunari blood?

What do you guys think?

Modifié par jamesp81, 03 août 2011 - 07:32 .

[Robhuzz]

It probably is a form of blood magic, just like the Grey Warden Joining ritual is. DA2 makes the Reaver class look like something very common though, while from DAO we learn that it is not. It took defiling the urn of sacred ashes to get Kolgrin to teach you, and since there was no other way, I think there aren't many people who really know what Reavers are, much less people who actually control those skills.

If I remember correctly, the Chantry actually does know about Reavers but denies their existence. Not sure if it was the reaver, could be the spirit warrior as well.

Chantry law is pretty clear. Using one's life to fuel spells or to control one's mind is considered blood magic, and those who use it are executed. Doesn't matter where the blood is from.

Modifié par Robhuzz, 03 août 2011 - 07:39 .

[jamesp81]

Maybe the Chantry pretends they aren't real to not start a panic.

We're talking about a warrior, no need to be born as a mage, with bloodmage like abilities who can tear through templars with ease, since templar talents seem to have no effect on them. I can see how they'd be unsettled by Reavers.

When I play as a warrior in DA2, I spec with Reaver and Berserker. It's fun to play as a wild-eyed, half mad, blood drinking savage on the loose with a big assed sword. Great way to terrorize the countryside.

[Bazedragon]

Robhuzz wrote...

It probably is a form of blood magic, just like the Grey Warden Joining ritual is. DA2 makes the Reaver class look like something very common though, while from DAO we learn that it is not. It took defiling the urn of sacred ashes to get Kolgrin to teach you, and since there was no other way, I think there aren't many people who really know what Reavers are, much less people who actually control those skills.

If I remember correctly, the Chantry actually does know about Reavers but denies their existence. Not sure if it was the reaver, could be the spirit warrior as well.

Chantry law is pretty clear. Using one's life to fuel spells or to control one's mind is considered blood magic, and those who use it are executed. Doesn't matter where the blood is from.

Reavers are rare in Fereldan, it seems. I suspect the reason they're more common in the Free Marches, is for the same reason as the increased number of slavers - the lands are split into city-states, and they are closer to Tevinter, there also seem to be more dragons.

Similarities you can bring between Tevinter and the town in DA:O - Tevinter is run by mages (spiritual leader in the town is a mage), and has male clerics and divine (Tevinter Chantry and the Black Divine), rather than female.

Tevinters may have visited the town, searching for the Urn of Sacred Ashes, and taught the people the rituals, as well as controlling them - but then found that they get turned away by the Guardian spirit of the temple, for failing the Gauntlet and dying, leaving the now converted town isolated and using the ritual to protect themselves.
Could also help explain how Genitivi found out about the town.

[TEWR]

becoming a reaver is blood magic, just like becoming a Warden involves blood magic.

Now, there are different types of Blood Magic. There's the powerful, mind controlling kind we all know and talk about. But there are less well known ways of utilizing blood magic.

The first that springs to mind is the Joining ritual. Consuming Darkspawn blood mixed magically with lyrium and Archdemon blood is Blood Magic. Now people will try to dispute this fact saying "Blood + Magic =/= Blood Magic."

However, they are wrong. The Reaver specialization's Codex says that by consuming Dragon's blood and gaining abilities, it is a definite form of Blood Magic. Blood Magic isn't about only using your blood for power. It's also about gaining power from blood. The same rules that apply to the Reaver spec. apply to the Grey Warden Joining ritual.

taken from a post I made many months ago regarding blood magic and how it isn't inherently evil


http://social.biowar...index/7212734/2

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 03 août 2011 - 09:25 .

[Drone696]

Aren't Reavers associated with Dragon Cults (like Kolgrims sect) which supposedly originate either from Alamarri tribal beliefs or Ancient Tevinter- Old Gods - worship? I think that's reason enough for the Chantry to classify them as heretics.
The initiation ritual involves prepared Drake (?) blood - that's blood magic.

I did the Reaver ritual once, with my mAmell blood mage, and I have to say, it was one of the most intense scenes in the whole game - it was like a flush, a trip.
The whole thing was very similar to the Warden Joining, it was even called "Joining". And after the ritual weren't you a member of the Dragon Cult ("you'll always be one of us...")?

I think there are more connections between the Wardens, the Dragon Cults and Ancient Tevinter beliefs then we know so far.
A very interesting subject imo.

edit: ninja'd, somehow.

Modifié par rapunzel696, 03 août 2011 - 09:59 .

[TEWR]

considering you hear a noise similar to the noise the Darkspawn hear, I think there might be more of a similarity than both Joinings being blood magic.

Or Bioware just recycled sounds.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 03 août 2011 - 10:07 .

[Ghost1041]

Ah yes "reavers" warriors who use blood magic to power their abilities. We have dismissed this theory.

[Drone696]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

considering you hear a noise similar to the noise the Darkspawn hear, I think there might be more of a similarity than both Joinings being blood magic.

Or Bioware just recycled sounds.

I half expected Alistair standing next to Kolgrim when I woke up.

And that's the same noise!

... or Bioware just recycling.

[Sepewrath]

Yeah its definitely considered blood magic, but its not something the Chantry would want to push. Because they have a system built on mages being the ones who manipulate blood magic for evil, if it got out that your non mage neighbor could have dabbled in blood magic anyway; suddenly the Chantry doesn't seem quite as in control of the situation. And it makes mages, just a little less evil.

[Blacklash93]

rapunzel696 wrote...

Aren't Reavers associated with Dragon Cults (like Kolgrims sect) which supposedly originate either from Alamarri tribal beliefs or Ancient Tevinter- Old Gods - worship? I think that's reason enough for the Chantry to classify them as heretics.
The initiation ritual involves prepared Drake (?) blood - that's blood magic.

Dragon Cult beliefs can originate from Tevinter/Old God religion, but there are several cases recorded of isolated civilizations that the Imperium never even touched falling victim to the worship of dragons. They all operate in the exact same way with the dragons - living in the same lair and protecting their children. It's pretty mysterious.

And dragonling blood is used. The High Dragon and Drakes permit the killing of a few of their young.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 03 août 2011 - 11:38 .

[TEWR]

Let us suggest, for the moment, that a high dragon is simply an animal. A cunning animal, to be sure, but in possession of no true self-awareness or sentience. There has not, after all, been a single recorded case of a dragon attempting to communicate or performing any act that could not likewise be attributed to a clever beast.

How, then, does one explain the existence of so-called "dragon cults" throughout history?

One dragon cult might be explainable, especially in light of the reverence of the Old Gods in the ancient Tevinter Imperium. In the wake of the first Blight, many desperate imperial citizens turned to the worship of real dragons to replace the Old Gods who had failed them. A dragon, after all, was a god-figure that they could see: It was there, as real as the archdemon itself, and, as evidence makes clear, did offer a degree of protection to its cultists.

Other dragon cults could be explained in light of the first. Some cult members might have survived and spread the word. The worship of the Old Gods was as widespread as the Imperium itself--certainly such secrets could have made their way into many hands. But there have been reports of dragon cults even in places where the Imperium never touched, among folks who had never heard of the Old Gods or had any reason to. How does one explain them?

Members of a dragon cult live in the same lair as a high dragon, nurturing and protecting its defenseless young. In exchange, the high dragon seem to permit those cultists to kill a small number of those young in order to feast on draconic blood. That blood is said to have a number of strange long-term effects, including bestowing greater strength and endurance, as well as an increased desire to kill. It may breed insanity as well. Nevarran dragon-hunters have said these cultists are incredibly powerful opponents. The changes in the cultists are a form of blood magic, surely, but how did the symbiotic relationship between the cult and the high dragon form in the first place? How did the cultists know to drink the dragon's blood? How did the high dragon convince them to care for its young, or know that they would?

Is there more to draconic intelligence than we have heretofore guessed at? No member of a dragon cult has ever been taken alive, and what accounts exist from the days of the Nevarran hunters record only mad rants and impossible tales of godhood. With dragons only recently reappearing and still incredibly rare, we may never know the truth, but the question remains.

--From Flame and Scale, by Brother Florian, Chantry scholar, 9:28 Dragon.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 03 août 2011 - 11:48 .