The question I was trying to put forth was whether this solution would work at a better cost to benefit ratio than the other option, viz. for mages to stay and fight for freedom in Thedas.
[quote]Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
Like I said, this theorhetical homeland would be well and far beyond Thedas. Given that mages exiled there will be pretty much starting from scratch, including developing the basic infrustructure, industry and such needed for even the most elemental semblance of society and civilization. They are going to be busy for quite some time just building even sustainable communities.
Even for mages, geographical distance and isolation is a signifgant barrier to any potential invasion. the laws and limits of magic would prevent teleportation, and it would take centuries to build an invasion army, as well as develop the necessary logistics to field it. [/quote]
A great exodus of such nature will have significant costs. The first is their actual movement from Thedas to the assumed uninhabited lands. Many lives are likely going to be lost in this journey - not just because of hunger or lack of water, etc., but also because of other stumbling blocks, like crossing oceans, fighting off possible raiders, pirates, hostile locals of other lands they'd have to pass through. What you state as obstacles for future invation - geographical distance and isolation - will have to be overcome at the time of the initial journey itself. And that is no mean feat.
[quote]
yes there is that. My solution isn't one that is meant to cover all mages, even future ones, or completely resolve the mage issue. It's mainly geared towards those mages currently living, who are going to be, one way or another, caught up in a conflict in a society they might not want anything to do with. What will happen to future mages born after many current ones leave is another issue entirely.[/quote]
That is quite true. But we're talking about mages who'd have to risk quite a bit to make this journey. Are we going to find a significant number of them who're likely band together and carry on? Or will most of them just stand and fight right here?
[quote]
And as far as the children born to mages in the theorhetical homeland,. I do not see how this wopuld be a problem. It is due to Chantry law and practice that mages are seperated from families. Chantry law would not even be an issue, since the theorhetical society in question would be one formed outside of the Chantry and it's laws. And it is unlikely that the mages who would agree to be exiled and live elsewhere would want to continue the Chantry system they most likely have been hurt by.[/quote]
Let us not forget that the Chantry at some point didn't exist. It came to be in the aftermath of Tevinter Imperium, the rise of Andraste, and so on. So would something like a Chantry not be born in the New World? Who knows? Again, though, it is unlikely that a system exactly like those of the Circles would be born. But it again depends on which direction the society in general chooses to take. And I would fear for those children born without the "gift," because right from birth they're at a disadvantage.
[quote]
As far as mages having non Mage children, i do not see this as a problem either. Once the mages have been exiled, it's their home, their society. Non-mage children born in such a place would not be automatically forced out or taken away, but raised like any other kid. A mage homeland wouldn't necessarily have to be 100% mages, there would likely be a couple of mundanes popping up as well.[/quote]
Well, you're imagining your New World to become a utopia of some sort. I'd say this is not likely to happen. Non-mages in a majority-dominated mage world are possibly going to face oppression, just like mages in a non-mage world currently are. I'd fear not imprisonment like the ones mage children endure now - I'd fear slavery of sorts, unless somehow the majority of mages turned out to be kind in nature.
[quote]
However, due to the seemingly recessive genetic nature of magic (and it is genetic, the Tevinter even kept breeding records and lineages of families producing mages) it is likely that non-mages would be a pretty uncommon thing.[/quote]
I don't know about that. I haven't read anything substantial on it in the game lore to suggest that being born a mage is actually something strongly gene-related. It would not, in the very least, explain the very first mages. It is likely that non-mage children be bread out of existence. But again seeing how ineffective that has been in controlling the birth of mages in Thedas, I'd not hold my breath. There seems to be something else at work here.
[quote]
Though I don't really think that would matter much, as the point of a mage homeland would not be total exclusion, but the chance for self-determination and the creation of a society and system on their own terms, something that does not have any known precedent (even the Tevinter don't count. The tevinter were a group of normal human tribes like any other, with the exception being that their mages ended up becoming the dominant power over non-mages through the years).[/quote]
True, a society like that would have great potential - for freedom from oppression, to determine for onself all aspects of life, and so on. But would it last? It is my belief that the pendulum will swing over time, one way or the other, people will go back and doing the same mistakes all over again, especially when there is no "equality of opportunity," so to speak.
In any case, the emergence of Tevinter possibly started with a few mages - who started looking out for power, dominance, and so on. But what you describe about Tevinter could also happen in the New World. The pendulum could swing any which way over the ages. There is no way to know what would happen. All a New World would promise is a potential, nothing more.
[quote]
Yes, I am aware that it is unlikely the Chantry will simply let mages leave, because the Chantry will not accept anything but total control and ownership of the mages. And thus, it is likely that the Chantry will have to be forcibly "persuaded" to back off and let the mages leave. But this isn't necessarily a problem.[/quote]
You're suggesting a war before the freedom. So let's put this into the context of what we've been discussing. A war to start things off - for mages to gain their independence from their oppressors first. Then a long march to the unknown, across great hurdles and barriers, not knowing what the future might hold. A risk of an unknown future, about unkown dangers. And having to start things off from scratch.
In any case, let me ask you. If mages forcibly persuade the Chantry to back off, as you suggest, why can't the Chantry be forcibly persuaded to let mages have a portion of land right here in Thedas? What would make mages so benevolent to those who've suppressed their rights for ages to actually defeat them and later to move off to the unknown?
[quote]
If you want to look at a real world example, we have the Old Testament and the story of Moses trying to free the israelites from slavery in Egypt so they could leave and settle their promised Land. Naturally, the Pharaoh wasn't on board with Moses and his plan, and repeatedly said no or attempted to stop him. And we know how the story played out, complete with supernatural, divine plagues and punishments brought down upon the population of Egypt. [/quote]
Ah, a Messiah. It could be. We'll wait and see. There are prophesies in the game (of deliverance perhaps?) that could lead to something like it.
[quote]
obviously, I'm not drawing a direct analogue to the Biblical tale, but just utilizing it as an example, that while the Chantry might say "no" doesn't mean that will be the end of it. obviously, the Chantry will try to stop such an event, and their attempts to stop any massive, outward migration will have to be dealt with. Harshly. [/quote]
There would be harsher things along the road, if you ask me.
And how "massive" are we talking about here, anyway?
[quote]
And on another note, I now have an image of "Moses the Mage", complete with staff, rasing his arms and using magic to part the waking sea so that the mages can cross it, then dropping the sea once the majority of their templar pursuers are already mid crossing, and the templars suddenly discovering that heavy plate armor is a serious impediment to swimming. And to top it all off, these scene is occuring in the middle of a Mel Brooks film, lol.
:wizard:[/quote]
Just imagine Sandal or Flemeth with a staff like that. :happy:
By the way, where are their staves? Come to think of it - I've never seen either one with a staff. Forgetting Sandal's somewhat mysterious "magic" for the time being, why haven't we seen Flemeth doing anything (a mage normally would) other than shapeshifting into a dragon?
[quote]
of course it will run into hurdles. Most plans, especially ones of this magnitude and size, always do, and I never said it would involve smooth, flawless execution. Hurdles can be overcome, like anything. The real point is that it is an option, one that has never been considered, and one that provide a partial solution. And of course, a choice for the mages where none before exists. Not all mages would even want to do so. But there are probably a signifgant number who would be interested in the idea, and for those, it provides them a third option.[/quote]
The question is: which path is the one of least resistance. And would mages in significant enough numbers be able to band together and embark upon such a journey? And how "significant" a number are we talking about? There may not be all that many mages in Thedas. And possibly not many in Tevinter who'd agree with this plan.
As I said these are significant hurdles - and one I personally don't think can be crossed looking at the current state of affairs. But it is an option, where none might exist. And some mages might consider such a thing. How successful they might end up being - it's anybody's guess.
Retour en haut
