Nimrodell wrote...
Just quick reminder on this and whole talk about Sandal manipulating Fade/magic without a stave - we've already seen Feynriel doing it as somniari, the dreamer, in the Fade. Feynriel (if Hawke was subtle with him and friendly) states that he can see seams and stitches of Fade and manipulates it without actually using a stave 
.
Yes, we kind of know as much about Sandal and Flemeth as about the so-called dreamers, which is at the moment very little. But they all seem rather out of the ordinary, and somewhat adept at what they're doing.
I'm beginning to wonder if the Fade is indeed the only source of magic. What if beings like dwarves are able to manipulate matter in a similar way to how others manipulate the energies of the Fade? The various schools of magic do seem to suggest such a possibility.
whykikyouwhy wrote...
Mage!Hawke does some spells without *holding* a staff (Firestorm comes to mind...and I hope I got the spell name right :/).
I remember being able to casting fireball that way.
But I do feel as though Flemeth and Sandal are on the fringe of what would be mortal restrictions on magic - they're able to link to/absorb/be one with the source more effectively, or perhaps completely. Well...Flemeth isn't really "mortal" exactly, so perhaps she shouldn't be counted in this equation.
I somehow do not see Flemeth in the same vein as Sandal. I haven't seen her do any kind of magic, apart from shapeshifting into a High Dragon form. Where do we get the idea that she is a mage, even? There is
this, of course, but that in itself isn't conclusive that she's a mage. It's just more legend, than anything else.
Nimrodell wrote...
Ah, we musn't forget the mage start in DA:O - during Harrowing, the mage is sent to Fade without a stave and if that mage accepts to duel spirit of valour, then he/she gets the staff. I like to think they were actually following Tolkien's principles on magic users and staves. As Tolkien states in one of his letters (too lazy to search for quote now, I'll paraphraze), staves are used for channeling, better controling of magic and intricate, higher spells, as we can see in Saruman's case when his staff is broken. Saruman doesn't loose all his powers (after all, he's one of the maiar spirits), but also he can't channel his power anymore, 'cause he has chosen physical manifestation of his power. So, staves do bring order but also serve as limitation to power in physical world.
Yes, magic in DA seems to follow certain rules. At least the limits of it are vaguely hinted at in
this. And regarding what a staff is used for,
this hints at having the ability to focus a mage's powers - spell power, providing damage bonus, spell resistance, and so on, depending also on the enchantments done to them.
There are several aspects to a staff. One seems to come from its basic material used - red steel, veridium, and so on. And still more seem to come from enchantments done to it. I'd like to think that making staves is a magical art in itself. And doing enchantments is something that dwarves and tranquil seem capable of doing. The Spellweaver is an especially unique item because its crafting technique seems to have been lost to time. It hints that ancient elves were able to make alloys of lyrium and metals, and thus able to "enchant" swords. I'm guessing this was at a time when arcane warriors were around. Does that hint at a time when elves were able to handle lyrium safely in the same way that dwarves are able to now?
Nimrodell wrote...
The strange thing for me is Deep Roads expedition and finding Sandal with that frozen ogre - after conversation with him we get Stone's Breath stave that gives bonus on spirit damage plus chance on knockback... and the first rune we get from Sandal also gives the chance on knockback... I just find it interesting.
Nimrodell wrote...
It even gets more interesting with the fact that that stave gives bonus on spirit school of magic.
<snip>
I'd say your mention of schools of magic is an important point. A few things stand out for me:
1. The one school that draws energies primarily from the Fade: the spirit school.
2. One that involves manipulation of the destructive forces of nature: the primal school.
3. Two that involve transformation of the natural forces - in case of creation to transform something and create anew, and in case of entropy to create something out of destruction.
4. How the spirit and primal are opposed to each other
5. How creation and entropy are opposed to each other.
Looking at Sandal, then, I'd guess he has a combination of the Creation school (Enchantment - especially haste - and those glyphs comes to mind), and primal (the frozen ogre, the dead darkspawn - implying perhaps destruction).
Now, going this way may also be missing the point because it is suggested that ancient elven magic (even the dalish magic that Merrill in DA2 has) doesn't necessarily come under any of the aforementioned schools. Blood magic seems different (although it might just be Fade-source vs. blood as fuel). And some of the magics like shapeshifting doesn't necessarily fall under any of these schools. So this classification by the Circles may even be incomplete - either in the sense of what the Circles actually know or in the sense of what is allowed to be practiced by students of magic.
And we talk about dwarven magic, elven magic, and human magic. These may all have been fundamentally different in the past. So while mages we know seem capable of manipulating the energies of the Fade to do their magic.
Sandal might be actually doing something entirely different - using matter, lyrium, whatever without connecting to the Fade - as something more than enchantment, but different from the magic that is known and practiced.
Flemeth seems like an especially powerful shapeshifter - her power coming from the form she's able to take; but we haven't seen her doing any other form of magic, at least not that I remember of.
And Feynrial's magic is actually kind of unknown. We know he is perhaps able to manipulate the Fade, but what else? What does being a natural dreamer or somniari even imply?
EDIT: Fixing formatting.
Modifié par MichaelFinnegan, 26 août 2011 - 12:30 .
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